'60 Desoto Adventurer Salvage Project

[SfanGoch]

Some of you might remember this pic I posted of the Johan '60 Desoto Adventurer which UPS manage to destroy.

 

What I didn't show was the crushed left tail fin. The entire top of the fin, from just past the C Pillar to the middle of the tail light, was pretty much destroyed. Fortunately, the "Adventurer" script is intact and undamaged. So, I'm looking it over and assessing the amount of damage and I say to myself, "Hey, you dope! You can rebuild it yourself." I started by cutting off the entire damaged portion of the fin. Now, the fun part starts, using Magic-Sculpt Two-Part Epoxy to reconstruct it. I'm using the undamaged right fin as a reference and built up the epoxy into roughly the same shape as the good fin. I'm taking my time to grind, file, sand and scrape this mess until it is replicates (mirrors) the right side. 

The chassis plate for this kit is the "standard" Mopar type found in all of the USA Oldies releases, including the Fury Police Pursuit Car:

 

This is what the chassis plate originally found in the annual 3 in 1 kit looks like:

 

Major difference here, guys. There are two possible candidates for a spiffy, 99.9999% accurate replacement for the cra_ppy Johan plate, those being the floor pan/frames from the AMT '57 Chrysler 300 and '58 Plymouth Belvedere. The '60 Desoto had a 122 in. wheelbase. The '57 300 was 126 in. but the surgery required in various areas, including shortening the frame and floor pan, would be too involved. Now, the '58 Belvedere is another story. It had a 118 in. wheelbase. The kit parts are almost identical to the Johan annual chassis plate in layout and appearance. I cut the '58  floor pan, and the corresponding points on the frame, at the joint under the rear seat. The red lines on the instruction sheet indicate the locations of the cuts:

 

and extended both by 4 mm, giving a total length of 122 mm (which scales out to the correct full-size wheelbase). Since the Johan firewall was one of the parts lost during shipping, I used the Belvedere's. It's not identical; but, what the hey! It serves the purpose just fine. While I was at it, I also cut the Belvedere's inner fenders since they fit the firewall and literally press into place onto the frame. Interestingly, the desk guy in my building found the dashboard at the bottom of the parcel cage in the lobby the other day, making it one less part I'll need to source. I test fit the new chassis in the Desoto body and it was a perfect fit. I attached two pieces of 4x4 mm square tubing lengthwise on either side of the transmission hump of the new chassis to provide support for the Desoto's interior tub and give the body the proper clearances over the wheels. Sorry for the lack of detailed photos at this point. I'll take and post pics in the next week after I finish rebuilding the tailfin.

Any and all comments, critiques, criticisms and invectives directed at me are always welcome and encouraged. Especially the invectives. It's the mark of a creative mind if you use any I've never heard or read before.  

[Sledsel]

I have a 60 annual in my stash, and a 60 salvage project that is going custom since it is so rough. Found the 65 Galaxie frame is a really nice fit, although nowhere near correct.

[StevenGuthmiller]

Sounds like a pretty ambitious project.

I hate to rub salt in the wound, but I just traded off a pretty nice '60 Desoto body about a month ago that I would have been more than happy to send to you.

Sorry!

 

Steve

[MrObsessive]

Very ambitious project Joe! I'll definitely be following along! I've heard old timers say that the 1960 Unibody frame was nothing more than the '57-'59 floor pan without the frame rails----just the front and rear subframes pretty much welded in. So pretty much what you're doing is spot on.

Keep up the good work!

[Spex84]

Looking forward to watching this project develop!

I guess that's what happens when Mr. Ace Ventura delivers your packages...

 

[John Goschke]

Ambitious rescue project! 

Just a reminder that 1960 and newer Mopars, including the DeSoto were Unibody construction and the chassis plate JoHan used in the USA Oldies DeSoto, while somewhat basic in detail, is actually correct – unlike the earlier body-on-frame chassis JoHan used in the '60 annual kits for some strange reason.  That said, the '58 Plymouth and '57 Chrysler ARE NOT an accurate swap into the '60 DeSoto.  A more accurate, if problematic, swap would be the chassis from any of the Lindberg '64 Dodge kits since they reflect the Unibody construction of the era.

[SfanGoch]

12 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Sounds like a pretty ambitious project.

I hate to rub salt in the wound, but I just traded off a pretty nice '60 Desoto body about a month ago that I would have been more than happy to send to you.

Sorry!

 

Steve

Oh well, I'm already Frankensteining this one and it doesn't look too bad. You wouldn't happen to still have the firewall and tail light lenses? I thought about modifying the tail lights from the 300 but they're not deep enough front-to back. As far as the firewall is concerned, I can't find an image of the Johan part clear enough to attempt scratching one. That's why I opted to use the Belvedere part. 

23 minutes ago, John Goschke said:

Ambitious rescue project! 

Just a reminder that 1960 and newer Mopars, including the DeSoto were Unibody construction and the chassis plate JoHan used in the USA Oldies DeSoto, while somewhat basic in detail, is actually correct – unlike the earlier body-on-frame chassis JoHan used in the '60 annual kits for some strange reason.  That said, the '58 Plymouth and '57 Chrysler ARE NOT an accurate swap into the '60 DeSoto.  A more accurate, if problematic, swap would be the chassis from any of the Lindberg '64 Dodge kits since they reflect the Unibody construction of the era.

I appreciate the additional information, John. I don't know why I didn't remember that important detail. I read about the '60/'61 Chryslers at allpar.com and it was mentioned in the article. After reading your reply, I compared the Lindberg, Johan, AMT Belvedere, '68 Roadrunner/'68 GTX/'70 Superbee, Revellogram '67-'69 Charger and the '67 Coronet/GTX chassis. I've already planned to use Lindberg chassis under a Johan '62 Dodge Dart ragtop and '62 Fury HT. I'll do the same under the old Revell '62 Dodge Dart 4 Dr and Fury 2 Dr HT.I used a modified RM '68 Charger chassis under a Johan '68 Fury. I like the look of the RM chassis. Aside from some minor differences, like the size of the gas tank and underbody stampings on the floor pan, it's a toss-up between the two. The Coronet/GTX chassis have a different design as far as the gas tanks and floor pan detail go; but, they can be changed and the chassis stretched another 5 mm to fit the Desoto. Ditto with the AMT late '60s Mopar chassis; although details are a bit soft.

Since this won't be a quick and simple job (yeah, a job. too much work required to be considered a leisure activity.  ), I'll consider the new options on the table. I would sincerely appreciate any input from you guys as to the best way to approach this.

[SfanGoch]

Okay, I performed what I think was some pretty successful reconstructive surgery, if I do say so myself, on the gekakt tailfin. I cut the damaged portion off from just in front of the C pillar, making a straight cut to just above the center of the tail light housing. I had to be careful to avoid damaging the script while doing this. I filled the opening with Magic-Sculpt on the underside of the body.

Once that set, I built up the tailfin until I achieved a rough shape. Once that set, it was a matter of using diamond bits, filing and sanding to get the final contours, again being careful while working around the script. Somebody needs to make a PE set for this car. Sure, it's loon OOP. There are a number of MCG sets for other kits which are essentially in the unobtainium category so one more won't be a big deal.   I still need to perform some finishing work; but, i'll call it done. 

 

I went to work on extending the floorpan and frame from the AMT '58 Belvedere to replace the Johan chassis plate. I thought I was clever until John Goschke was kind enough to remind me that Mopars, including Desoto, went to the UniBody construction beginning with the 1960 MY. That being the case, I'll have to pick up a couple Lindberg '64 Mopars to get the chassis and suspensions. These kits are a dime a dozen; so, having a couple around as donors for my other Johan and Revell '62-64 Dodges and Plymouths  is a plus. Since I did all of the work on this and am basically stuck with it, I checked the 'net to find out which '57-'61 Mopars had a 122' wheelbase. Bingo! The 1957 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer used the same frame as the 122" wheelbase Chrysler Windsor! It just so happens that Jack at Model Roundup and Steve at Star models have the Hendrix Resin 1957 Royal Lancer kit. Now, I don't have to stare at this modded setup like a mook and can stuff it under the Hendrix body and interior tub. Anyway, here are some pics of the modified underbody components.

Edit:

I forgot to mention that I made contour templates of the right tailfin on an index card. I just flipped the template to mirror the left side and used it to check the shape.

Edited September 14, 2018 by SfanGoch

[High octane]

That's quite a project and it looks like it is coming along nicely. I think that I have one of those DeSoto kits in my stash, and hopefully one day I'll get to it?

[Italianhorses]

Good start!

[SfanGoch]

Thanks, guys. I thought this was worth the effort to save it. 

[Tom Geiger]

Looks good!   I have one that had a bad paint job and someone screwed up all the trim sanding on that paint job!  So I've sanded it all off and was in the process of building it as a primered rod with holes where the trim would be replaced.   I did buy half a dozen of the Lindberg Dodge for the slant sixes, so I'll put one of the chassis under this one.  I was also thinking of trying to improve the interior since it's so shallow.

[SfanGoch]

The shallow interior tubs bother me too, Tom. I did a little bit of interior surgery on the tub for the Johan '62 Dart ragtop. What I did was:

1. scribe the floors in front and back out of the tub 

2. added a 6 mm styrene extension around the perimeter of the tub where the floor was removed

3. dropped the floor parts 5 mm (I also moved the front section 3 mm forward to get the proper legroom distance) to line up with the door panel lines

4. added styrene to the back of the front seats to extend them to the floor

5. did the same to the rear seat cushion and added a 5 mm strip under the front seat. 

All this work will allow the Lindberg chassis to fit under the Johan body at the correct depth. Of course, the Lindberg chassis requires some minor mods; but, it's fairly simple. As I mentioned previously, I'll be doing the same to the shallow interior tubs of the Revell '62 Dart 4 Door and Fury HT. Since I'm going to have to use an extended Lindberg chassis under the Desoto, it'll also get the deeper tub treatment.

 

[Rider]

Nice sculpting and reconstruction of the tail fin. I'll be following along. 

[SfanGoch]

Thanks, Lloyd. It was tedious; but, nothing that anyone with a bit of patience couldn't do. If I had another body, I could have made a fiberglass mold of the tailfin and slush cast an exact copy. 

[SfanGoch]

Okay, I did some surgery on a Lindberg '64 Mopar chassis to stuff under the body. Measuring the wheelbase, it comes to exactly 122 scale inches. Supposedly, it should be 116", since the '62-'64 Plymouth and Dodges shared the same chassis. Better for me, less work.   I didn't have time to take photos. I'll post them later.

The only mod to the chassis was slicing and lengthening the inner wheel wells. The Lindberg leaf springs are 2 mm too short at the rear compared to the Johan chassis; otherwise, the wheel centers will line up in the correct position relative to the wheel wells on the body. I cut the inner fender wells from the Johan chassis, modified them slightly and will use them instead of the Lindberg parts. i also opted to use the Lindberg firewall, which also was slightly modified. It ain't 100% accurate; but, it fits perfectly.

I cut the floors from the Desoto tub and will use the Lindberg floor pan. It will provide the missing transmission hump/tunnel absent from the Desoto's tub. I only need to add 4 mm of styrene around the perimeter and the same for the front and back seats to get the proper depth. It'll be easy work to detail the new and improved door panel now. 

One thing that bugged me was the way the instructions showed how the radiator wall is to be installed. It might just be me; but, it looks like the instructions call for it to be installed upside down. It just doesn't look or fit right if installed per the instructions. This is what I mean:

What I did was flip it with the longer edge on top. I removed the raised ridge along the shorter edge so it would align with the splash pan (?); and, now everything lines up and fits a whole lot better, including inner fender wells and the grille/bumper.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

I really enjoy seeing this kind of project. These were great looking cars, IMHO. I just bought a '60 Imperial to do much the same thing with. 

[SfanGoch]

Progress report:

I did some sink mark filling on the trunk lid; and, since the details on the Lindberg '64 Mopar firewall are incorrect for a '60 Desoto Adventurer, I will remove and replace the details with a fiberglass resin cast of the kit's air evaporator box. Also, I'll use the Kelsey-Hayes master brake cylinder from the AMT '57 Chrysler 300 to replicate what I've seen in photos of the actual engine compartment. Additionally, I snagged a Chrysler Cross-Ram V8

to stuff under the hood. I'll definitely make copies if the induction system for other projects.

One of the things that stands out and bugs me is the shape of the kit windshield. Looking at the actual car, you can see that it has a flat, even slope from the roof to cowl.

That's not the case with the kit glass. There's a weird extension at the roofline, giving the car an odd appearance, sort of like it has a thyroid condition. This anomaly has been previously pointed out by others.

The ''60-62 Chryslers shared the same roof sheet metal and glass (and just about everything else ) with Desotos of the same vintage. The pic below is of peekay's Johan 300H model featured here a few years ago. I took the glass from my '62 300 and test fit it into the Desoto body. Poifect, Moe! Fits like a glove, nyuk, nyuk, nyuk! When my Mattel Vac-U-Form Machine arrives, I'll make copies of the 300 glass.

Next on the "it annoys the hell out of me list" are the tail light lenses. The kit lenses are too big, as seen in the photo of the Johan promo above. The look like someone jammed oversized apple turnovers into the housings. The kit lenses should be half their present size. Not to mention, the lenses are not made from transparent red styrene. They are painted. I discovered this while attempting to polish one. Go figure. So, using Alumilite Amazing Mold Putty, I made one piece molds and filled the cavities with fiberglass resin tinted with clear red acrylic paint and modified them to look like this

I'm finding that casting small parts and details with fiberglass resin has numerous advantages over urethane resin and two part epoxy, the main one being quicker cure time. I've cast a lot of spare taillight lenses for my ever growing fleet of Johan and Revell '62 Darts, Furys and Desotos using this method.

For priming, I'm using Mr. Surfacer 1000 White. This is fantastic. It lays down super smooth and doesn't obliterate delicate details like scripts and emblems. Also, its 100% opaque with no bleed-through from colored styrene (this particular kit is molded in typical Johan red styrene which bleeds like a stuck pig) and makes a great finish coat if one plans on modeling a white car. It polishes out glass-smooth with a high gloss.

I also de-chromed and polished the bumpers, adding some Masterclub resin rivets to the rear bumper, and will refinish them with Alsa Corp.'s Easy Chrome. This is another great product I highly recommend. I'm debating whether to drill out the molded headlights and replace them with clear lenses and chromed buckets.I've got plenty of fiber optic filament of varying diameters to possibly have working lamps and illuminate the instrument panel.

I haven't had the time to take pics; but, I'll post them later.

Bye the bye, would anyone have a list/chart of exterior (two-tone) and interior color options for 1960 Chryslers/Desotos? I d/l'ed paint chip charts; but, getting info on interior trim/upholstery colors and such is next to impossible.

Edited November 17, 2018 by SfanGoch

[StevenGuthmiller]

Actually Joe, that "bulge" at the top of the glass is not entirely incorrect.

While it is overly pronounced, many of the '60 Mopars had this bulge in the glass.

The Plymouths and Dodges had them & it appears that at least some of the Desotos did as well.

It appears that at least with the Desotos, it depended upon the model, although I have seen photos of Adventurers with either one.

Possibly an option?

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

[MrObsessive]

To echo what you said Steve, years ago I was on a Mopar message board and someone needed a windshield for what was either a '60 or '61 Chrysler. They wondered if the "bulged" glass would work as his car had a flatter windshield. The response was either one would work as the dimensions were the same for the circumference of the glass-----the bulge would not affect the fit.

Perhaps the more bulged glass was limited to hardtops while the sedans had the flatter glass?

Think 1957 Chrysler Corp convertibles which had a different windshield frame than the hardtops (a detail many don't get right when converting a 300C into a convertible for instance). For '58 Chrysler gave the hardtops and convertibles the same A pillar shape ('cept for Plymouth), so this might explain the differences in the glass between models.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[SfanGoch]

I know where you're coming from regarding the glass, Steve. I ran across the same thing when googling images. '60-'61 Chryslers, Plymouths, Dodges and Desotos were available with either the "flat" or compound curve bubble windshield which was interchangeable between all models, including sedans and convertibles, through 1961. The problem I have encountered with the Desoto kit glass is that the bubble seems exaggerated compared to the real thing and it doesn't fit as well as the glass from the '62 300. The glass needs to be force-fitted into the windshield frame because it's too wide at the bottom of the vent window areas. To thin these areas down to make it fit properly is too labor intensive. It will be easier to make vacuform copies of the 300 glass with the flat profile.

[StevenGuthmiller]

3 hours ago, SfanGoch said:

I know where you're coming from regarding the glass, Steve. I ran across the same thing when googling images. '60-'61 Chryslers, Plymouths, Dodges and Desotos were available with either the "flat" or compound curve bubble windshield which was interchangeable between all models, including sedans and convertibles, through 1961. The problem I have encountered with the Desoto kit glass is that the bubble seems exaggerated compared to the real thing and it doesn't fit as well as the glass from the '62 300. The glass needs to be force-fitted into the windshield frame because it's too wide at the bottom of the vent window areas. To thin these areas down to make it fit properly is too labor intensive. It will be easier to make vacuform copies of the 300 glass with the flat profile.

I agree that some of these Johan "bubble" windshields look too exaggerated.

Strange because I have used some of them in some of my '59-'61 Johan Mopars and most of them look right.

Although some have been Modelhaus vacuuformed pieces, if that makes any difference.

 

Steve

 

 

 

They don't start looking a little out of whack until I look at my '59 Fury & '60 New Yorker.

 

[disabled modeler]

Nice work on the save project...    Nice builds everyone else too...just beautiful.    For me one I have to do someday is a 60 Desoto wagon like my parents had once...and yes it had a Hemi..LOL.. 

[Tom Geiger]

Argh!  The more sophisticated we get, the more problems we create for ourselves!  

I was happy with my 1960 Desoto kit until now! 

[montelsc]

Not to come off the main topic but those are some beautiful builds 

and I too am from greenpoint born & raised nice to meet ya!!!