Cobra 427 SC : Oil pan

[kjohan]

In my attempts to build Cobra 427 S/C I got stuck on the question of oil pans
and ask here with help for clarifications

1) The Revellogram Cobra in its five iterations/ four kits
( The "blue one" intended to depict the CSX3002, The white Essex Wire CSX 3009 , The combined Feinstein CSX3009 and Keck 3008, and finally the black Baldwin-Motion Cobra drag car),
all have a very thin oil pan, which I interpret as a pan used for dry sump lubrication,
though the only one of these cars to have this system was the CSX3002
(though the kit lacks the fender-mounted tank/filler etc needed for the dry-sump system)

Is this a correct understanding from me concerning what the "thin pan" is ?

2) If so, the kits of the other cars (= the CSX 3008 ,CSX3009 and the Baldwin-Motion cars)
all being "wet sump cars",
really should have a conventional pan with a "tray" ?

3) I have understood that the"wet sump" Ford 427s had an oil filter built into the oil pan.
Correct ?

4)Now , the Cobra 427 S/C (most of them at least) have a "device" attached to the front of the left cylinder head,
close to the upper radiator hose/tube.
This device is, as I understand it, a combined oil filler AND filter
(There are hoses going to /from the device both to the oil cooler in the front, as well as down to an adapter/ inlet on the low left side of the engine block)
Correct ?

If so, do the cars, having this "device", ALSO have the oil filter built into the pan ?
Or, in those cars, is this pan-mounted filter omitted ?
Sounds logical, why having two filters ?
= the pan-mounted filter, in that case, is used for cars/engines WITHOUT this "device" ?

Appreciate all info/help/ clarifications

Gunnar

[Ace-Garageguy]

The stock wet-sump Ford FE engine (including the 427) has a cast aluminum oil filter adapter bolted to the side of the block.

                                           

A remote filter for a wet-sump can be mounted using a different adapter, with hose outlet and inlet fittings instead of the spin-on filter boss. A typical setup looks like this. The "device" relocates the filter, but the oil is still filled through the valve cover.

Alternatively, the block-mounted filter can be retained, with additional plumbing for an oil cooler.

A remote-mounted filter can also be plumbed to accommodate a cooler.

 

 

[kjohan]

Thanks Bill for a most comprehensive answer
Firstly that clarifies for me, that IF a remote oilfilter is used, which as I understand it, was most commonly used system on the Cobra 427 racing S/C,
then there shall be no filter "down below" near the sump.

What remains for me to understand is whether the seemingly very shallow sumps included in the Revellogram kits,
are they correct for "wet sump cars/engines" ? 
Or are the included sumps actually for a dry sump system ?
Looking at the fine photo provided, the sump on that engine is rather "wide and shallow" ,
and this depicts a wet sump engine as i understand it.
If so, the sumps/ parts provided in the Revellogram kits are actually (fairly at least) correct for a "wet sump car".
Correctly understood ?

[Ace-Garageguy]

9 minutes ago, kjohan said:

...What remains for me to understand is whether the seemingly very shallow sumps included in the Revellogram kits,
are they correct for "wet sump cars/engines" ? 
Or are the included sumps actually for a dry sump system ?

I MIGHT have a Revellogram Cobra still here (I've already moved many kits out West).

If so, I'll look to see what pan is represented.

[kjohan]

Thanks Bill, very kind,
If problems I post a photo of the part

[Ace-Garageguy]

In the only Revellogram 427 Cobra I still have here...

...the oil pan, though incorrectly modeled, represents a steel wet-sump pan, probably built by Aviaid.

The bungs on the end of the pan could conceivably be used as scavenge ports for a dry-sump application too.

EDIT: Though in practice, I don't know if it was ever done.

EDIT 2: The "real" dry sump pan is an entirely different animal, with a dedicated front cover:

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Ace-Garageguy

[kjohan]

Thank you Bill so much for your efforts and information to clarify this

/ Gunnar

 

10 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

In the only Revellogram 427 Cobra I still have here...

...the oil pan, though incorrectly modeled, represents a steel wet-sump pan, probably built by Aviaid.

The bungs on the end of the pan could conceivably be used as scavenge ports for a dry-sump application too.

EDIT: Though in practice, I don't know if it was ever done.

EDIT 2: The "real" dry sump pan is an entirely different animal, with a dedicated front cover:

 

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

39 minutes ago, kjohan said:

Thank you Bill so much for your efforts and information to clarify this

You're very welcome.

[vamach1]

Found these picture on Facebook and Mecum site of Tom Payne’s 427 Cobra CSX 3020 if anyone is looking for reference pictures of this version.

[afx]

The period photos are of Payne's 289 Cobra (CSX2430) - the forward facing roll bar brace and the "D" shaped radiator intake are the tells.  The engine shots are the 427.

Edited December 9, 2021 by afx

[vamach1]

7 hours ago, afx said:

The period photos are of Payne's 289 Cobra (CSX2430) - the forward facing roll bar brace and the "D" shaped radiator intake are the tells.  The engine shots are the 427.

My bad.  I did not realize he raced a 289 and 427 in the same color and number and mixed up the Facebook photos of the 289 with the Mecum auction site pictures of the 427.   Some of the vintage pictures look colorized as they seem a little too perfect.

Edited December 9, 2021 by vamach1

[afx]

2 hours ago, vamach1 said:

My bad.  I did not realize he raced a 289 and 427 in the same color and number.

 

 

You can't believe everything you read on Facebook.

[65slotcar]

[kjohan]

Thanks Rex, JC and William for comments and nice photos

The 427 engine photos were very instructive for future builds