'57 T-Bird kits, differences

[fiatboy]

I'm going to buy a '57 T-Bird kit.  Are they all the same?  One of them come with a SOHC engine.  Can a stock T-Bird be built from them?  Thanks

[SteveG]

3 hours ago, fiatboy said:

I'm going to buy a '57 T-Bird kit.  Are they all the same?  One of them come with a SOHC engine.  Can a stock T-Bird be built from them?  Thanks

I'm not sure if the SOHC engine ever appeared after the '69 "Here Comes the Judge release".  It's been released a half dozen times with different content since.  With the latest release the stock version requires the continental kit. Otherwise, you'll have to modify the rear bumper mounting for a good fit. Some parts were restored for this issue.  The bottom of the box shows the contents.  You can also check out the HPI Guy video of it, see the link below. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s__Q8tNEs8w

-Steve

[Mark]

They aren't all the same when you take the earliest issues into consideration.  When you are talking post-1974 issues, they are for the most part very similar.

First issue includes a ton of styling parts, and came in two boxes: small (T-57) and large (T-2257).  Same artwork on the outside, same content inside.

Second issue added a stock hardtop and changed the custom wheels, but still has the styling parts. 

Third issue was the Elegance Series in a larger flat box, with a little can of pearlescent spray paint (smaller than the cans AMT sold separately).  Molded in red with blue tinted clear parts including headlight lenses.  The parts included were only what was needed to build the car as shown on the box, a mildly customized version.  Most of these will be missing the can of spray paint.  Some eBay liars will claim that their kit doesn't have the paint because "it was sold in California and they didn't allow the paint to be included"...BS.  Someone swiped it back in the day to use on something else.

Here Comes the Judge was next, the only issue with the drag version and SOHC engine.  Next up was the Modern Classic, with only the stock version plus new custom wheels and a set of C3 Corvette side exhausts.  Stock engine was not plated as in earlier issues.  Molded in either white or black (no way to tell which on a sealed kit).  Red taillight lenses were eliminated with this issue.

The Vegas TV issue added the continental kit, Ertl later put back the custom roof from the early issues and started plating the engine again, but for the most part the Modern Classic and newer issues are pretty much alike.

 

[mikos]

11 hours ago, Mark said:

They aren't all the same when you take the earliest issues into consideration.  When you are talking post-1974 issues, they are for the most part very similar.

First issue includes a ton of styling parts, and came in two boxes: small (T-57) and large (T-2257).  Same artwork on the outside, same content inside.

Second issue added a stock hardtop and changed the custom wheels, but still has the styling parts. 

Third issue was the Elegance Series in a larger flat box, with a little can of pearlescent spray paint (smaller than the cans AMT sold separately).  Molded in red with blue tinted clear parts including headlight lenses.  The parts included were only what was needed to build the car as shown on the box, a mildly customized version.  Most of these will be missing the can of spray paint.  Some eBay liars will claim that their kit doesn't have the paint because "it was sold in California and they didn't allow the paint to be included"...BS.  Someone swiped it back in the day to use on something else.

Here Comes the Judge was next, the only issue with the drag version and SOHC engine.  Next up was the Modern Classic, with only the stock version plus new custom wheels and a set of C3 Corvette side exhausts.  Stock engine was not plated as in earlier issues.  Molded in either white or black (no way to tell which on a sealed kit).  Red taillight lenses were eliminated with this issue.

The Vegas TV issue added the continental kit, Ertl later put back the custom roof from the early issues and started plating the engine again, but for the most part the Modern Classic and newer issues are pretty much alike.

 

Also, there were variations in the early issues.  The Craftsman Jr. and the Wonderbird Trophy Series kit.  The latter had an optional hardtop that was flatter at the front, tunneled rear window and it narrowed at the front near the windshield header.   The earlier Craftsman Jr. kit had the most accurate hardtop shape.  The WB Trophy series and beyond all had the inaccurate hardtops in them.

I believe there were two molds of this kit.  The Craftsman Jr., the most accurate of the two, was based on the original promo tooling.  I don’t know about the other one.

 

[Dave Darby]

1 hour ago, mikos said:

Also, there were variations in the early issues.  The Craftsman Jr. and the Wonderbird Trophy Series kit.  The latter had an optional hardtop that was flatter at the front, tunneled rear window and it narrowed at the front near the windshield header.   The earlier Craftsman Jr. kit had the most accurate hardtop shape.  The WB Trophy series and beyond all had the inaccurate hardtops in them.

I believe there were two molds of this kit.  The Craftsman Jr., the most accurate of the two, was based on the original promo tooling.  I don’t know about the other one.

 

The Wonder Bird was part of the Elegance series, and was the first of the glue kits to have the stock hardtop.  The Trophy Jr/Craftsman kit has the better hardtop, and Drag City casting offers both stock and porthole versions mastered from it. I seem to remember reading in an old review of the Ertl reissue that there were two promo tools. The Ertl reissue mentions that the kit was made from a promo tool, and comparing the front and rear bumpers, and interior construction seems to bear that out. We will be exploring the 57 T-bird in a future edition of the Vintage Workbench. 

[Mark]

#2357, from 1966.  Second issue.  Not simply a reboot of the first issue, like many other Trophy Series kits from around that time.  The hardtop was added, and the optional wheels changed from the "1962 Styline spoke wheels" to the chromed/reversed style with the inner wheels serving as the inner portion.

[Sledsel]

19 hours ago, mikos said:

Also, there were variations in the early issues.  The Craftsman Jr. and the Wonderbird Trophy Series kit.  The latter had an optional hardtop that was flatter at the front, tunneled rear window and it narrowed at the front near the windshield header.   The earlier Craftsman Jr. kit had the most accurate hardtop shape.  The WB Trophy series and beyond all had the inaccurate hardtops in them.

I believe there were two molds of this kit.  The Craftsman Jr., the most accurate of the two, was based on the original promo tooling.  I don’t know about the other one.

 

The correct top can be had from Ed at Drag City Casting FYI

[Dave Darby]

On 10/12/2023 at 6:12 AM, Mark said:

#2357, from 1966.  Second issue.  Not simply a reboot of the first issue, like many other Trophy Series kits from around that time.  The hardtop was added, and the optional wheels changed from the "1962 Styline spoke wheels" to the chromed/reversed style with the inner wheels serving as the inner portion.

Is that the end cap to this one? So the stock hardtop appeared sooner than I thought. 

[Mark]

Yes, that's the one.  I have the box (can't recall how I got it) but not the contents or instruction sheet.  

There aren't many items I'm looking for anymore, but if a mint one of those were to turn up, I'd be all over it.  It would be interesting to see if any other alterations were made.

[Dave Darby]

I found a sold one in completed auctions on ebay, and it looked a bit de-contented. Looks like they omitted the custom skirts and a few other custom parts. The current issue has one of the custom skirts back in. The other custom skirt got displaced by some wheel backs, probably for the Modern Classics issue.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Dave Darby

[Mark]

The custom skirts would have been way outdated by 1966.  Similar parts were deleted from other Trophy Series kits around that time.  The piece that interests me is that "scoop" set towards the back of the hood; I recall a similar piece in the Styline kit that went further forward, ahead of the hood.  The stock scoop, a separate piece in the Styline issue, would appear to still be separate in the 1966 issue.  I believe it was engraved into the hood for the Elegance Series issue.

[Bills72sj]

Thanks guys for sharing this info.

[Dave Darby]

3 hours ago, Mark said:

The custom skirts would have been way outdated by 1966.  Similar parts were deleted from other Trophy Series kits around that time.  The piece that interests me is that "scoop" set towards the back of the hood; I recall a similar piece in the Styline kit that went further forward, ahead of the hood.  The stock scoop, a separate piece in the Styline issue, would appear to still be separate in the 1966 issue.  I believe it was engraved into the hood for the Elegance Series issue.

Actually, looking at the ebay photos, it appears the scoop for the second issue (contrary to the box art) is molded in place.

[mr moto]

I would be interested in seeing what original parts Round 2 was able to include in the new issue. Anyone have some photos?

[Exotics_Builder]

I've got two Styline versions, but nothing newer than this kit

 

[Mark]

The newer issues are pretty much like the Ertl issue pictured.  Few, if any more, unblocked parts.  

[mr moto]

9 hours ago, Mark said:

The newer issues are pretty much like the Ertl issue pictured.  Few, if any more, unblocked parts.  

Sorry to hear that. I guess I'll keep looking for another old version.

[Dave Darby]

On 10/28/2023 at 9:08 AM, Mark said:

The newer issues are pretty much like the Ertl issue pictured.  Few, if any more, unblocked parts.  

Not quite true. The 427 engine block, headers, the custom headlight bezels, large hood scoop one custom fender skirt, and a number of other parts have been unblocked.

[Ragtop Man]

Thanks for pointing out the headers and engine block. Any Ford freak will have the rest of the SOHC parts in abundance, throw in some decent wheels, bingo.

Would like to have seen the HCDJ parts make a return, but I get it there just isn't a lot of coin to chase that project. About 15 years ago, when the FX kits were coming back into circulation, I compiled a list of AMT "FX" kit sources for Judge parts. If the patience of the board is not overtaxed, I will look it up and share. I can't help but wonder if one of the AMT engineers or planners was at Detroit Dragway watching Bill Coon take 'em down with his '57 Cammer T-Bird, and said, "hey, we could do that." (Ditto the Modified Stockers, at least the first wave, esp the Galaxie.)  Seems like a miss that they did not add the well-rendered HCDJ reproduced decal sheet from the '69 GTO F/C. 

If I could get any parts back in the kit, it would be the nicely rendered chrome outer wheel rings that turned the standard open wheel backing plates into  handsome chrome reverse. Given those parts are made with a radial cutter, should not be rocket surgery to replicate. Failing that, your build should be the box art for the next release, with the whites and wires and/or the parts pack chrome reverse that go perfectly with the T-Bird.

One slight addenda to Mark B's concise history of the '57: At some point in the history of the HCDJ, AMT started cutting costs and corners inside the box. I have a release purchased from the estate of the toy distributor representative, (his son is was/is a nice guy,long story) with an instruction sheet printed at half-size, and if I'm remembering correctly, an abbreviated version of the original HCDJ decal sheet. 

[Mark]

Most companies started cutting corners with decal sheets at some point.  I've got sheets from the same issue of particular AMT kits, one larger than the other.  Same with MPC, the Malco Super Vett is one that springs to mind.

Revell did theirs differently...they approached aftermarket parts and tire companies and had each kick in a few bucks.  Their contribution got their decal on one million sheets, with the promise that a competing company would not have their decal on the same sheet.

AMT got down to some postage stamp size decal sheets in the mid Seventies; notably the ones for the Mopar Kit Cars.  The lack of striping and paint scheme decals probably hurt the sales on those kits, as only the numbers and logos were included.  Jo-Han eliminated decal sheets altogether in their USA Oldies kits.