Best 60s dragster?

[Bernard Kron]

I agree dodgefever.

Bernard, thanks for your addition to the available dragster kits. Nice builds by the way. You obviously speak from experience. I especially like the striped middle photo.

So I could always get a newer kit as you mentioned above and shorten it.  Or maybe the Hippie Hemi or HemiSphere would bean option if I can't get my hands on the older shoter '64) Wynn's Jammer.

 

 

Thanks. I didn't mean to hi-jack this thread but it is the perfect opportunity to summarize the available "weapons of choice" and provide a bit of introduction to digger lore. Mid-60's diggers are among the most beautiful race cars ever created. For me trying to capture that vibe can be addictive!

I think dollar-wise, short of the American Graffiti car, the expenditure will tend to be the same. What you save on the kit you'll probably spend on aftermarket stuff and/or materials. The problem I have with the Garlits car is that it always looks like the Garlits car - because of that roll cage. I buy those kits for everything but the chassis. Now that I know how to shorten it, the Ivo long wheelbase setup has really grown on me despite the half-round tubing. It's got that SoCal tough-as-nails money racer look to it, especially with an Altered States "shorty" body on it. A good source for the chassis can be the odd-ball Digger-Cuda which sometimes can be bid low on eBay. I love the Revell Tony Nancy double kit for its detail parts and the killer chassis, but the chassis, in order to be stretched and updated to mid-60's will require work, The Ramchargers car is, of course, it's own thing with its legs-under stance. But the shortened Ivo car with a minimal "shorty" body is probably the best overall candidate for achieving That Look.

Here are a couple of pics showing how to shorten the Ivo long wheelbase frame:

There's a whole other world of late 50's and early 60's machinery out there, too - hinted at with the AMT Double Dragster kit and achievable using kits like the Mickey Thompson Attempt I, the new Revell Slingster, and the two Revell Parts Pack frames, but aesthetically that's a separate subject.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Bernard Kron

[noname]

Thanks again Bernard.  I forgot about the Ramchargers kit.  that would be a good one. Or the Jawbreaker and get an AF small simple body.

I dig the above green (both are nice) dragster. It has the right look and a real nice fuel injection set up.

If you have anything more to add please do. And thanks for the time you took to point these kits out.

[noname]

Oops you were posting while I was typing.

No problem hijacking the thread.  I'm sure I am not the only one that will benefit from your take on these kits. Maybe the Ivo kit and aftermarket shorty body is a good solution. I'm not worried about the later Hemi motors as I would prefer something more out of the ordinary. It also looks like the Ivo tires are too wide for the mid-late 60s time period.  So the shorty body will fit most frames?

Having said that, those Ramchargers/Jawbreaker low slung frames are pretty mean looking.  Mean is good.

No, I wouldn't mess with the Tony Nancy Double Dragster kit.  I like them nice and short. I love the late 50s-early 60s rails. I was just looking for something a little longer and a tad later to add to my collection such as the Ramcharges etc.

[noname]

Well I went to my local hobby shop yesterday and there was the Young Americans dragster kit there for $19.99 so I grabbed that. I really like Apexespeed's Old Master thread. I love that dragster. I have a couple of questions. First is the Goodyear slicks in this Young American kit good for mid 60's? I wonder when they started making this style this size?

My second question is, can someone please point me to some good mid 60s restoration reference links. I saw some good ones on Cacklefest but the pictures are rather small.

Third, I built this engine a while ago and was wondering what years it would fit into.

I'm afraid the valve covers are later 60s style 426 Hemi after Market pieces but am not sure. And I'm guessing usually this blower scoop may not have been used on these style engines?  I think this engine came from a Bantam Altered kit. I was hoping to use this engine for a mid 60s dragster. Or I would even go for a later 60s dragster if I had to so I could use this engine. Then I would need some later 60s reference photos I guess.

 

Thanks a lot for any help guys.

[Greg Myers]

This thread should be pined, if just for all the great , you ain't gonna find good stuff like this , information from Mr. Kron. Thank you Bernard, great information. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

... I built this engine a while ago and was wondering what years it would fit into.

I'm afraid the valve covers are later 60s style 426 Hemi after Market pieces but am not sure. And I'm guessing usually this blower scoop may not have been used on these style engines? 

Those old "mailbox" scoops were common in the early-to-mid '60s dragsters...   

Your valve covers are OK for an early Hemi as well...   

Trying to use Google image-search and learning how to phrase your query terms will give you access to millions of images like this, and all the technical information you'll ever need...with some effort on your part.

[10thumbs]

The "Cacklefest" site has a wealth of info, as you've already gathered.

Edited November 15, 2015 by 10thumbs

[noname]

Thanks for your suggestions guys. I was hoping maybe some of you guys new of a few close up and detailed restorations.  I know Cacklefest has some good stuff but the pictures are a little small to see the detail good.

Dragsters are new to me. I have a couple of great books on Super Stock and Gassers by Larry Davis that have been invaluable to me. When I was stumped I would ask 6bble Bird (he still around?) as he was also a rich source of information. He was always more than happy to answer questions. I'll keep looking for dragster info/reference pics.Thanks

[Greg Myers]

Matt, I think if you can build engines like the one you show here, lots of your questions are superfluous. You must know all the answers yourself.  You know the origin of the motor and you've done a bit more than the kit requires.

What's the real story?

The "Cacklefest" site has a wealth of info, as you've already gathered.

So, you can build.  You can research.  You know what you want.  So do it, and show us the result.

Any more questions?

why such a pushy negative reply ?  Education is an on going endeavor 

Edited November 8, 2015 by Greg Myers

[10thumbs]

.

Edited November 15, 2015 by 10thumbs

[Mr. Metallic]

Thanks. I didn't mean to hi-jack this thread but it is the perfect opportunity to summarize the available "weapons of choice" and provide a bit of introduction to digger lore. Mid-60's diggers are among the most beautiful race cars ever created. For me trying to capture that vibe can be addictive!

I think dollar-wise, short of the American Graffiti car, the expenditure will tend to be the same. What you save on the kit you'll probably spend on aftermarket stuff and/or materials. The problem I have with the Garlits car is that it always looks like the Garlits car - because of that roll cage. I buy those kits for everything but the chassis. Now that I know how to shorten it, the Ivo long wheelbase setup has really grown on me despite the half-round tubing. It's got that SoCal tough-as-nails money racer look to it, especially with an Altered States "shorty" body on it. A good source for the chassis can be the odd-ball Digger-Cuda which sometimes can be bid low on eBay. I love the Revell Tony Nancy double kit for its detail parts and the killer chassis, but the chassis, in order to be stretched and updated to mid-60's will require work, The Ramchargers car is, of course, it's own thing with its legs-under stance. But the shortened Ivo car with a minimal "shorty" body is probably the best overall candidate for achieving That Look.

Here are a couple of pics showing how to shorten the Ivo long wheelbase frame:

There's a whole other world of late 50's and early 60's machinery out there, too - hinted at with the AMT Double Dragster kit and achievable using kits like the Mickey Thompson Attempt I, the new Revell Slingster, and the two Revell Parts Pack frames, but aesthetically that's a separate subject.

Thank you so much Bernard, for taking the time to critique these kits. The FED's have really been tripping my trigger lately, and I have accumulated some of these kits, but not really knowing their high and low points. These posts are much appreciated.

[Greg Myers]

  http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/107616-revell-attempt-i-record-car-great-for-early-dragster-parts-and-trailer/

Edited November 14, 2015 by Greg Myers

[Dave Van]

My version of the Revell Nancy kit.....slightly modified with new rear tires and body altered. A pretty nice kit for it's age. 

 

[Bernard Kron]

  

 

That's a Dragmaster Dart chassis. It was the Dragmaster answer to the longer, simplified and lighter Kent Fuller style chassis, such as the one he built for Tony Nancy's 22 Jr. Competition T-Bucket in the Revell Tony Nancy Double Dragster kit, The Attempt I chassis is a Dragmaster IV chassis, the one used by Dean Moon for the Mooneyes dragster and by Pete Robinson to win the '62 NHRA Nationals. The Dragmaster Dart features the tapered frame rails of the Kent Fuller style but still retains the distinctive Dragmaster roll hoop (in this case the double hoop style). The Dragmaster IV, with it's parallel frame rails, can be considered to be the last and greatest of the Old School frame designs before the the minimalist 60's FED designs took over. It was enormously successful both competitively and commercially. The Dragmaster Dart enjoyed some success as well but was swept up in the blizzard of "modern" chassis produced during the 60's FED boom.

Dode Martin and Jim Nelson and their Dragmaster Dart:

Nelson and Martin with the prior Dragmaster IV chassis:

Edited November 14, 2015 by Bernard Kron

[Greg Myers]

Try this , (Dode Martin and Jim Nelson and their Dragmaster Dart at The Nationals) you'll like it : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIJ_wO6kmzE

Edited November 14, 2015 by Greg Myers

[Bernard Kron]

I was just perusing the Round2 web site and noticed that the MPC Don Garlits Wynns Charger kit description included a pdf of the instruction sheet ( http://www.round2models.com/files/instructions/mpc810.pdf ). Close inspection of the details for the kit indicate this as an excellent candidate for a 60's style FED. In particular it has the basis for a nice shorty body by trimming the side panels beneath the motor from the nose. It has a separate body panel over the cockpit and an exposed roll cage area. Just shorten the wheelbase as described above and you've got your classic mid-60's 155" ,digger. The motor has separate blower pulleys and a vinyl Gilmer belt. It also features an accessory oil pressure gauge which mounts to the rear blower cover and one-piece zoomie exhausts instead of those skinny, fiddly two-piece  affairs that come in most of the Ivo-chassis variants. And lastly, the kit includes a well detailed front wing and separate axle weights as well. This may be the "weapon of choice" for a mid-60's FED project.

Here's a composite picture of a couple of panels from the instruction sheet with some of these details circled:

Edited November 15, 2015 by Bernard Kron

[Greg Pugh]

Lots of great information here!

[tim boyd]

Matt...to add to what has already been posted above, here's a link to my Fotki album where I have posted extensive photos of my 19 completed builds of most of the kits referred to in Bernard's multiple informational posts above, as well as the several MPC, AMT, and Revell rear engine dragsters.  There are shots of each kit with the front body panels and cowl tops removed, and engine and interior closeups for most kits as well.  Here's the link:   http://public.fotki.com/funman1712/tim-boyds-124th--12/boyd-rail-dragsters/boyd-rail-dragsters/  

While some of these builds are box stock, others are mildly kitbashed, such as this buildup of the MPC Garlits Wynnscharger with a Boss 429 engine and striped livery inspired by the Don Prudhomme "Super Snake" c. 1967/8

:  

The only additions I would make in terms of the kit critiques is that the AMT Garlits Swamp Rat still has the BEST EVER blower drive setup in a 1/25th scale kit (all three pulleys are molded separately and can be rigged to actually rotate with some work), and the belt drive itself is rubber and more realistic appearing than any of the other kit attempts at this piece.  (The internal blower rotors inside are cool too).  But the blower case itself is more 4-71 than 6-71 and needs to be replaced with a more realistic piece.  Second comment on the same kit is that the front axle setup is notorious for its tie rod which sets up the tires to have improper spacing (they splay outward when viewed from above, rather than parallel to each other as they should be), and the kingpin setup is not precise and results in a sagging appearance (camber) to the wheels/tires.  

Finally, a complete buildup and some tips for a more accurate appearance of the MPC Ramchargers kit is the cover story on the next most recent issue of Model Cars magazine. Those of you who only watch this site (and don't subscribe or newstand purchase the mag) missed a very helpful article on this subject. 

Matt, have fun with your project, 1960's rail dragsters are a great modeling subjectt!   Cheers....TIM 

 

[noname]

Thanks guys for the info.  This thread could have the unnecessary posts deleted and be used as a scale dragster reference I think.  Very helpful.

Tim thanks for your addition and I will definitely have a look at your Fotki.  Nice builds. The Ramchargers would be at the top of my list.  Unfortunately it would be hard to get one on Ebay for less than $50 between the prices and shipping.

Thanks again Bernard. Good to know about the Don Garlits as it is likely much easier to pick up or order from a local hobby shop. I recently purchased the Young Americans kit and will keep an eye out for the Garlits,...or any of the previously mentioned candidate kits.

[Mr. Metallic]

This thread should be pined, if just for all the great , you ain't gonna find good stuff like this , information from Mr. Kron. Thank you Bernard, great information. 

I agree. Admin, please pin this!