Terrible painting results - body

[lilbuddy]

Hi All,

I'm new to the hobby in case you haven't seen my other posts. I'm now on my 3rd model and have yet to have this experience. The problem I'm having is the paint on the body. Here are the steps I took and the results I'm getting...please help.

1. Wash all parts in warm soapy water..... let dry

2. Prime , let dry

3. Testors black spray paint.....went over the body a couple of times....I spray from about 10" away and attempt to do light coats.

My results have been terrible with this car. At first I had air bubbles in certain areas. I sanded those down and tried to spray them again.....same result in the same area.

I then sanded down again but this time I sanded the majority of the car body. I then hit it all with primer again....I let that dry. I then tried a different brand of paint. This time I used dulpi-color from advance auto. Its the smaller can that they sell. This can is labeled as a car color match. 

My result this time was some of the paint dried with a gloss look and some of it dried looking very faded and flat. 

I dont know what to do at this point. Should I sand the whole car down again? Spray it with some killz, then primer and try to spray again?

I feel like the body is taking some abuse and may just be permanently damaged with all the sanding I've done. 

 

TIA

 

[Jantrix]

My result this time was some of the paint dried with a gloss look and some of it dried looking very faded and flat.

Nope, it's working as intended. Duplicolor Color Match are lacquers and will usually dry with a dull finish. They can be polished with a little compound and then cleared for the shiny look you are after.

As for the first Testors paint, if it's their standard enamel, I've never had luck with it. We both live in a humid environment, so enamels will always be a problem. Try the Testors One Shot Lacquers, Tamiya or Model Master Lacquer system. They are your best bet in our humid climate. The model lacquers though aren't the same as the Duplicolor, and will usually have a nice shine. Good luck.

[lilbuddy]

 

Nope, it's working as intended. Duplicolor Color Match are lacquers and will usually dry with a dull finish. They can be polished with a little compound and then cleared for the shiny look you are after.

As for the first Testors paint, if it's their standard enamel, I've never had luck with it. We both live in a humid environment, so enamels will always be a problem. Try the Testors One Shot Lacquers, Tamiya or Model Master Lacquer system. They are your best bet in our humid climate. The model lacquers though aren't the same as the Duplicolor, and will usually have a nice shine. Good luck.

Thanks Rob....Do you know if I can pick up that other type of paint at Michaels or something similar?

Also, as far as what Im dealing with now should I just sand it all down an start over? I almost feel like tossing the kit and buying a new one. Unless anyone knows where I can get a 66 cobra body from :-)

[Jantrix]

Thanks Rob....Do you know if I can pick up that other type of paint at Michaels or something similar?

Also, as far as what Im dealing with now should I just sand it all down an start over? I almost feel like tossing the kit and buying a new one. Unless anyone knows where I can get a 66 cobra body from :-)

I have seen the Testors One Shots at Michaels, though a hobby shop would have everything.

No. As long as the Duplicolor paint job doesn't have any major flaws, buff it out with a little auto compound.

(I use this) http://www.walmart.com/ip/49015966?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227036602550&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=57920922098&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=90251497058&veh=sem

Then wipe it down good and hit it with a clear. Testors One Shot Wet Look clear is pretty popular.

[unclescott58]

Stay away from Testor's enamel. Its nothing but junk. Switch to lacquer. Its more expensive. But, I ended up saving money in the long run. Not having to strip and repaint like I use to. People in our local model car club use giving me BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH about my bad paint jobs. Because of orange peel from enamel paint, they use to joke about nicknaming me Sunkist. Now they complain that they can't make fun of paint jobs, since switching over to lacquer.

[High octane]

After you wash the body and while letting it dry, wipe it down with a paper towel to remove the water spots on the body, as I think that it will help your paint job.

[Kit Basher]

Stay away from Testor's enamel. Its nothing but junk.

Testors enamel in a spray bomb might be junk, I don't know, I haven't used it in 40+ years. Testors enamel bottle paint shot thru an airbrush is very nice.

[unclescott58]

Testors enamel in a spray bomb might be junk, I don't know, I haven't used it in 40+ years. Testors enamel bottle paint shot thru an airbrush is very nice.

Yea, I'm talking Testor's canned spray paint. And since I hate airbrushes, I mainly use only lacquer in spray cans to paint my bodies. I prefer Tamiya. But, Testor's One Shot lacquer isn't too bad either.

[lilbuddy]

Thanks for all the help. I'm giving in another shot and I'll see what happens. 

The testor paint I have is the lacquer....I wonder if I was getting bubbles due to the can being almost empty...It may have started spraying air in the paint..

Newbie pains...live and learn. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

To avoid confusing the OP, the actual name of the Testors lacquer product is "One Coat", not "one-shot".

There's a One Shot line of striping enamels and airbrush products, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with any Testors product.

The Testors One Coat products are not entirely accurately named either. In my own experience, they MAY (or might, if you prefer ) take several coats to achieve good hiding...depending on the topcoat and primer colors.

Also, to the OP...if you're having to remove paint to correct mistakes, you need to thoroughly read the paint-stripping how-to thread. As you suspect, repeated sanding will eventually ruin your model's body. You can, however, strip it an almost infinite number of times with no damage...if you do it right.

I still use Testors enamel rattlecan products for wheels, engines, etc., with excellent results...usually...because they make a beautiful gloss on small parts you can't easily achieve without enamel. Occasionally, I'll get annoying bubbling on sharp edges, so I'm phasing out the canned enamels now that I have a good airbrush.

 

Edited February 24, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Kit Basher]

Mike, one more thing to consider. You mentioned you had "air bubbles", sanded them out, resprayed, and the bubbles came back in the same area.
 If the bubbles came back in the exact same area, your problem could be contamination. Lacquers can be sensitive to contaminants. Silicone is the worst, but oil, water,  or possibly even soap residue, could be the culprit.

I like Rob's answer: polish the Duplicolor, shoot it with clear, and call it good.

[lilbuddy]

Ok...so I hit it with the dulpi-color and then a clear coat and wow this looks like complete s**t...

So the testors paint I had used the first time and I got air bubbles is below.

Then after sanding that down hitting it with primer and then using the dulpi-color and then clear coat....here is the craptastic result.....I think this car is trash at this point.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2016 by lilbuddy

[Ace-Garageguy]

 

...I think this car is trash at this point.

Sad, but I think you're right. 

It appears that once you'd sanded the car, the Duplicolor was WAY too hot to use on the plastic (something nobody above mentioned) and crazed it badly...about the worst I've ever seen. Duplicolor WILL craze many of the plastics that kits are made from these days.

On a positive note, you photographed the problem very well, and you might be on to something in creating a realistic vinyl-top texture.

I wouldn't throw it out, though. You may someday need bits or shapes from the body to build something radical, and it might have just the part you need. What's there could certainly be the basis for a funny-car body, definitely.

One other thing...this is the prefect illustration why I'm always harping on modelers testing the materials they want to combine (that aren't made specifically to go together on models) on the plastic from the kit you're working on at the moment. Plastic formulations vary, and a paint that might not hurt one kit will ruin another one.

This is the reason the much vaunted "spoon test", while good for checking color and coverage, is useless for determining whether a particular paint or combination is safe for your model.

This is also a perfect illustration of why it's a good idea to practice your painting techniques and get them dialed in BEFORE you commit to painting a model.

[unclescott58]

Sorry about the mixed calling the Testor's lacquer "One Step," rather the correct name "One Coat." My mistake on that one.

Boy, Mr. Guzman I don't what your doing to get the above results. As bad of paint jobs I've gotten with enamel paint, I've never gotten anything that bad. I wonder if Bill's not correct. I've never used Duplicolor paint. But, if it's an automotive lacquer it's very important to put down a good coat of primer first. The hobby lacquers designed for pastic models is not as hot. So primer is not always needed. I've heard horror stories of "hot" lacquers ruining models in descriptions simular to what you've post here. This is the reason I've pretty much always stayed with paints designed for models. At the same time, I know a lot of people who have had good luck using Duplicolor paint.

Edited February 25, 2016 by unclescott58

[Kit Basher]

Wow, Mike! Was it like that before you cleared it?  If it was mine, I would strip it. (See: "Paint  Strippers- What to use", at the beginning of this Q&A section) It looks like there is a lot of paint on there, and it's possible (barely, I admit) that all that mess is only in the paint. If that cratering is in the plastic after all the paint is removed, then Bill is right, something  was too hot.

If you strip it, it might not save it, but you will have a better idea what happened, plus you will learn how to strip paint. Unfortunately, that may be a technique you will need to use again. I certainly have.  Plus you'll have a bare body that you can practice painting on.

[Dragline]

I feel your pain but that effect is something to be duplicated.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Just a couple FYIs, for future reference, based on extensive first-hand experience.

When you "sand" the styrene plastic that our models are made of, you invariably break the surface, which is usually somewhat harder and more solvent-resistant than what's under it. So, any solvents in your paint will attack where the surface has been sanded much more aggressively than they will on other areas.

Case in point. I removed the raised peak and the emblem from this Revell '50 Olds hood. Naturally, in filing off the raised portions, I went into the softer material beneath it. I lightly scuffed the rest of the hood and started shooting primer. EVERYWHERE the raised details had been removed, the Duplicolor primer I used attacked and crazed the plastic, but it laid down nicely where the surface had just been scuffed. It took several sessions of lightly sanding the crazing out, re-shooting with primer, and re-sanding to get a perfect surface for paint...and a sufficient barrier of primer so that the paint wouldn't attack the underlying plastic again.

But patience and practice have their rewards. After allowing the primered hood to dry very thoroughly, I shot a Duplicolor lacquer color over it. No crazing, and the paint slicked out very nice and glossy...in this shot with one coat of clear. This has not been sanded or polished, either. Practice, practice, practice...and patience.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[lilbuddy]

Thanks for all the feedback....

Im considering the body a loss at this point. I actually found the same kit on amazon for 13 bucks shipped via prime so I ordered it last night. 

Im also not going to use the dulpi color any more....I did have good success on my previous car with the dulpi-color but the testor seems to be best for me. 

Its funny that you guys mention the heat issue. I actually have a little space heater in my garage where I do my painting...I did have it on after I sanded and washed off the car again...it was on when the car was drying..I then painted the car again and I bet the car was too warm. 

Live and learn...glad it was just a 13 dollar mistake 

 

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

 

Its funny that you guys mention the heat issue. I actually have a little space heater in my garage where I do my painting...I did have it on after I sanded and washed off the car again...it was on when the car was drying..I then painted the car again and I bet the car was too warm. 

WAIT!! 

We didn't explain thoroughly enough, and used a term we're all familiar with, but that someone new to this stuff might not know.

In the context of paint, terms like "hot" refer to the aggressiveness of the thinners / solvents in the paint, and how likely they are to attack and craze the plastic a model is made of.

Testors and Tamiya lacquers are formulated to be gentle to kit plastic, with solvents that are not too aggressive, less "hot".

Duplicolor and other paints formulated for REAL car use tend to have "hotter" solvents in them that allow them to 'bite' better, to adhere better, on a car that will be living in the real world outside. But these "hotter" solvents also make them more likely to craze the plastics models are made of.

Some hardware-store paints supposedly MADE for plastic are also too hot for our model use. Krylon Fusion is one such product that's caused a lot of grief among newer, less experienced modelers.

 

 

 

[lilbuddy]

WAIT!! 

We didn't explain thoroughly enough, and used a term we're all familiar with, but that someone new to this stuff might not know.

In the context of paint, terms like "hot" refer to the aggressiveness of the thinners / solvents in the paint, and how likely they are to attack and craze the plastic a model is made of.

Testors and Tamiya lacquers are formulated to be gentle to kit plastic, with solvents that are not too aggressive, less "hot".

Duplicolor and other paints formulated for REAL car use tend to have "hotter" solvents in them that allow them to 'bite' better, to adhere better, on a car that will be living in the real world outside. But these "hotter" solvents also make them more likely to craze the plastics models are made of.

Some hardware-store paints supposedly MADE for plastic are also too hot for our model use. Krylon Fusion is one such product that's caused a lot of grief among newer, less experienced modelers.

 

 

 

Ohhhhhhhhhhh...ok thanks for clearing that up for me. So being new i've read some where about having my spray cans around 72 degrees or so...so when you said HOT i was thinking...hummmm maybe my cans and the car were too close to the heater.. LOL

FWIW I just ran out to Michaels and got more of the testors lacquer paint....the new kit should be here tomorrow so I'll try again.

On a side note...I have another question....I painted some plastic stuff in the past and a guy at advance auto told me to buy this pre-spray stuff....its a clear spray that you put on plastic first before you spray paint it...the clear stuff helps hold the paint on. Maybe I dont need that with the testors paint...

Also with the testors paint do you guys suggest using a primer first?

 

[Longbox55]

Sounds like he was trying to sell you an adhesion promotor, such as Bulldog. You do not really need that for the plastic that model kits are made from, that is really more for hard to paint and flexible plastics that are found on 1:1 cars.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Different modelers have different preferences for prepping bare plastic.

DON'T bother with the adhesion-promoter. As Longbox55 said, it's made for flexible plastics on real-car bumpers and interiors and is entirely a waste of money on a model.

This is what works 100% right for me, every time.

Scrub the bare plastic body or part with warm water, an abrasive cleaner like Comet, and an old toothbrush. This will give a nice 'tooth' to the surface for good paint adhesion, and will get in to nooks and crannies you can NOT possibly reach with sandpaper or other means like Scotch-Brite pads. Sandpaper tends to 'dull' or round-off surface details, and you don't have to worry about that with the Comet method. The cleanser will also do a good job of removing surface contaminants like mold-release-lubricants that may be on your new model.

Rinse with plenty of water, very thoroughly, and dry. At this point, I take another step some consider to be unnecessary, and I wipe the whole thing down with 70% ISOPROPYL alcohol (cheap, simple rubbing alcohol from the drug or grocery store). It will remove any remaining contaminants, and is excellent insurance against fisheyes. I got in the habit of using the alcohol wipe on full-size aircraft and custom car paint jobs, and it's never let me down yet.

I prefer to primer everything, because I find I get a better paint job in the end. The downside to primering is that it's another opportunity for the dreaded 'orange-peel' to creep in, and if it does, it has to be sanded out. Spraying paint over orange-peely primer will look like carp.

There are some primers some guys swear by, like Tamiya, that I'm not familiar with enough to recommend...but they say they lay out smooth and slick once you get the hang of using them. That's what you want, if you want to avoid having to sand out 'peel'.

I use Duplicolor and SEM primers made for real cars, and they're a little "hot". Duplicolor has two basic kinds...high-build "scratch filler" and a thinner-bodied "sandable" version. if you haven't done any bodywork, and have no deepish scratches that need filling, the "sandable" version slicks out nicely. 

If you choose to use a primer, and if you can shoot it slick, I'd still recommend scuffing it with Comet, and cleaning it again with alcohol before painting.

Practicing and becoming familiar with the way different materials work and handle is the only way to get good at this stuff, so don't get disappointed. DO try to practice on something other than a model you care about FIRST. Plastic pop-bottles make good practice targets for learning how to shoot paint. Prep them exactly as you would a model. The point is to find out EXACTLY what works for YOU.

This car was shot with Duplicolor primers and Testors "one-coat" paint and clear. I'm sure everybody here is sick of seeing it on every other how-to paint thread, but it's an example of the results you CAN get from rattlecans.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[bobthehobbyguy]

I think you also had an issue becuase you still had enamel on the body. Painring lacquer over enamel is a big no no.  

[62rebel]

It was mentioned that sanding will eventually destroy the surface and remove details, and I want to add that sanding uncured paint(s) is almost a sure recipe for trouble. Use any of the recommended methods for stripping paint instead; leave the sanding for bodywork, filler shaping, and cured paint. AND don't cut corners on sandpaper; buy the good stuff. cheap papers will shed grit into the paint, filler, etc, and clog up repeatedly.

if you're painting in a cold room, warm your cans in a pan of hot water. This thins the paint, raises the pressure in nearly-empty cans (I'm a cheapskate, I use up every last drop) and helps the paint "flow" when it hits the body. let 'em gas out completely before doing anything else. don't even worry about drips or runs at this point; let that paint cure and sand those glitches out later. You'll get the hang of knowing when to stop shooting color, what will cover and what won't, eventually. Don't rush your work, especially paint. I've got two Autolite Hi-Per Mustangs that I've been restoring for about three years now... hesitating putting any color on that 50 year old plastic until it's a perfect surface...

[Mike Kucaba]

I'd suggest getting some plastic spoons and run your tests/practice on those. Model car kits are not $5.00 anymore.