Update 7/10/16: 1932 Duesenberg Model J, Berline coachwork by Le Rouge (Interior is all test fitted)

[Art Anderson]

Personally I like to see Duesenbergs in mono-chromatic, non-metallic color schemes most of the time though the Whittell Sedan certainly is an attractive car. Obviously this is a very subjective opinion, I have seen the car in person and last time I saw it, it was like all other Whittell cars, black with the understides of the fenders and the chassis in red. Several of his cars have since been restored, or re-restored and they do lend themselves to other color schemes. This is a long winded version of saying I would vote for shades of green with a very subtle variation between colors. Just my 2 cents worth.

I really like what you are doing with this one Art. I really look forward to seeing the progress on this car as you go. One small suggestion; any time I have built up a Duesenberg and have not filled the holes on the fender where the hood panel fits (passenger side under the exhaust pipes) I have regretted it.I think the little slots for the tabs is an unsightly detail.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Eric

I don't much care for red undersides, but this one likely will have the chassis painted in Duesenberg, Inc.'s standard maroon--will be picking a J-Number for the chassis from Fred Roe's excellent book on Duesenberg, for which the body installed is today unknown, however.  But, bear in mind that metallic paints were available by 1929,  Indianapolis 500 winner (1928) Louis Meyer's #28 was painted a brilliant metallic gold lacquer, which DuPont had just developed.

Art

[peekay]

Here's an OOB phaeton I did many years ago. My color scheme was an uneducated guess, and a much more knowledgeable friend questioned my use of metallic paint, claiming it wasn't in use in 1934. Glad to see you prove him wrong, Art, and also to see a very similar shade in one of the above posts.

I've often thought of modifying and swapping in the wheels from a Monogram Cadillac V16, which look to me to be better proportioned - although I've never actually bought the V16 kit to verify this theory. Looking forward to more progress here. 

[Harry P.]

Here's an OOB phaeton I did many years ago. My color scheme was an uneducated guess, and a much more knowledgeable friend questioned my use of metallic paint, claiming it wasn't in use in 1934. Glad to see you prove him wrong, Art, and also to see a very similar shade in one of the above posts.

I've often thought of modifying and swapping in the wheels from a Monogram Cadillac V16, which look to me to be better proportioned - although I've never actually bought the V16 kit to verify this theory. Looking forward to more progress here. 

That's a beauty!

[sjordan2]

Here's an OOB phaeton I did many years ago. My color scheme was an uneducated guess, and a much more knowledgeable friend questioned my use of metallic paint, claiming it wasn't in use in 1934. Glad to see you prove him wrong, Art, and also to see a very similar shade in one of the above posts.

I've often thought of modifying and swapping in the wheels from a Monogram Cadillac V16, which look to me to be better proportioned - although I've never actually bought the V16 kit to verify this theory. Looking forward to more progress here. 

Art certainly knows his stuff regarding American classics, especially ACD cars. Here's a post from the AACA forum:

"I'll have to stand corrected on the earliest use of metallic paint! The ACD Museum [displayed] a 1927 Duesenberg Model X sedan which is listed there as being an all-original, unrestored car. It's painted in a now-faded green, which has a very, very fine (almost pearlescent fine) metallic powder in it." Consensus is that aluminum particles were not unusual from the late '20's on.
So, that seems to answer the question whether pearlescent or metallic paints would be period-correct for 1936 American cars. I assume MB could have done or were doing the same thing in the Sonderwagen division. I think the "visible to the eye" reference on the color chart probably means extremely fine particles compared to modern metallics, and the "scarcely visible" means exactly that. Two degrees of very tiny particles. I am feeling more comfortable going with at least a small amount of metal particle for my car.

The AACA manual/rules apparently state that the first use of metallic paint was November 1927, and prior use is "original" upon proper documentation."

Different kinds of materials were also used to create metallic finishes, but that's another story.

[Art Anderson]

That's a beauty!

Duesenberg's wire wheels were unique to that marque, however--very visually different.  Unfortunately, Monogram felt it necessary to simplify the spoke pattern for the outer row of spokes, as in real life, those wheels are "triple laced", meaning that about 1/3 or so of those spokes went to the inner row at the rim, for greater strength.  It's rather understandable, given Fred Duesenberg's heritage of building race cars (Duesenbergs won at Indianapolis in 1924, 1925 and 1927, as well as the 1921 French Grand Prix.  Also consider that the Model J in normally aspirated form had the most powerful production automobile engine built up to 1929--265hp from 420cid,  and that was raised to 320hp with the addition of a supercharger (SJ version) with a couple of those engines being further "breathed upon" by Fred's younger brother in 1935--an incredible 425hp from that same 420 cid unit.  In addition, they were massive, and rather heavy cars--a simple roadster could weigh in at nearly 5000 lbs, with limousines, town cars, even phaetons more than that--up to an incredible nearly 7,000 lbs for the one-off "Father Divine Throne Car"!

Art

[Eric Macleod]

Don't get me wrong. I am in total agreement with Art that a Duesenberg could have had a metallic color scheme from the factory.  Probably the most authentic 1930 Cord L-29 in existence sports a silver color scheme.  All I was saying is in my own opinion ACD cars look better in non-metallic color scheme,  an opinion I stand by, for the most part. I hold this opinion very dear when discussing some of the more conservatively styled Duesenbergs such as Berlines,  Town Cars and Sedans.  While Art's model is a model of a non-specific Duesenberg and he can thus build it any way he likes, I was offering an opinion of how I think it might look best. Please take it as such, an opinion,  not a statement of fact.

[Art Anderson]

Don't get me wrong. I am in total agreement with Art that a Duesenberg could have had a metallic color scheme from the factory.  Probably the most authentic 1930 Cord L-29 in existence sports a silver color scheme.  All I was saying is in my own opinion ACD cars look better in non-metallic color scheme,  an opinion I stand by, for the most part. I hold this opinion very dear when discussing some of the more conservatively styled Duesenbergs such as Berlines,  Town Cars and Sedans.  While Art's model is a model of a non-specific Duesenberg and he can thus build it any way he likes, I was offering an opinion of how I think it might look best. Please take it as such, an opinion,  not a statement of fact.

Bear in mind that a true Berline from the Classic Era could be had as "transformable", meaning that it could be configured for a chauffeur, thus functioning as a formal sedan or limousine, and for those occasions when the owner wanted to drive it as a family car, that "privacy" panel behind the chauffeur's seat could be removed (on many Berlines, but not all).  In addition, while most any exotic luxury car built in the US at least in 1931-32 tended to be painted in conservative colors, often quite dark (so as to not be conspicuous in those years of soup kitchens and bread lines, many that were sold in places such as Florida, or certainly in Southern California could be very brightly painted.  So, there was a lot of room for a prospective buyer to maneuver, to make a decision on such as color and color schemes.

Art

[landman]

Art certainly knows his stuff regarding American classics, especially ACD cars. Here's a post from the AACA forum:

"I'll have to stand corrected on the earliest use of metallic paint! The ACD Museum [displayed] a 1927 Duesenberg Model X sedan which is listed there as being an all-original, unrestored car. It's painted in a now-faded green, which has a very, very fine (almost pearlescent fine) metallic powder in it." Consensus is that aluminum particles were not unusual from the late '20's on.
So, that seems to answer the question whether pearlescent or metallic paints would be period-correct for 1936 American cars. I assume MB could have done or were doing the same thing in the Sonderwagen division. I think the "visible to the eye" reference on the color chart probably means extremely fine particles compared to modern metallics, and the "scarcely visible" means exactly that. Two degrees of very tiny particles. I am feeling more comfortable going with at least a small amount of metal particle for my car.

The AACA manual/rules apparently state that the first use of metallic paint was November 1927, and prior use is "original" upon proper documentation."

Different kinds of materials were also used to create metallic finishes, but that's another story.

 

That and the use of ground fish scales too added to the "pearly" look.

[Eric Macleod]

Art is correct about the meaning of the term Berline though not all Classic era cars used the term. As an example,  he exactly describes my 1:1 1929 Franklin which the factory called a 7 passenger limousine. 

[Richard Bartrop]

Granted, if you wanted to keep a low profile,  a Duesenberg probably wouldn't have been your first choice.   They're big, powerful cars that are about a subtle as a punch in the face.  I remember an early Automobile QUarterly piece that described a Duesenberg in a limousine body as looking like a prizefighter in a tuxedo, and I can't argue with that.

[Art Anderson]

I've been working on a bunch of very tedious, fiddly detailing on the body shell--correcting the right side wheel arch, moving the door hinges for the front doors to conventional opening, rescribing door lines, and finally, testing out an idea I had regarding the door handles.  While looking at my stock of dressmaker straight pins, it occurred to me that yeah, they would make perfect slimline tapered door handles.  So, after "blunting" the points down (no need for them to be sharp enough to BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH my fingers easily), then bending them at a fairly sharp right angle, I drilled #73 holes in the beltline molding, and tried my theory--I think it works!   Next step?  Make thin, small diameter bezels that can be foiled to a chromed appearance.

 

[russosborne]

Art, those door handles look perfect!

I used to build old car models, got them at a car museum outside of Sarasota Florida each summer when I visited my grandmother back in the '60's. You're making me think about building some again.

Russ

Edited May 28, 2016 by russosborne
grammar

[gtx6970]

Not only do the door handles look great.

I am going to steal the idea when the time comes for some of my own classic era cars  builds

 

he exactly describes my 1:1 1929 Franklin which the factory called a 7 passenger limousine.

Yours air cooled ?

I did some work on one of them  few years ago . Very cool car, wood frame rails and all

 

 

Edited May 28, 2016 by gtx6970

[ChrisBcritter]

Really love the styling on this one, Art - looks very close to this Willoughby sedan:

Just square the corners of the windows a bit and make a more vertical windshield header, and there you are. 

[sjordan2]

Really love the styling on this one, Art - looks very close to this Willoughby sedan:

Just square the corners of the windows a bit and make a more vertical windshield header, and there you are. 

That's a beautiful green. If it's what you're considering, Art, I certainly agree. Following avidly.

[Art Anderson]

Just got done adding bezels for the door handles--more tedious, fiddly stuff!  1/16" styrene rod, drilled out to match the straight pin sourced handles, then CA glued in place, and CAREFULLY sanded down to a proper "height".  These space the door handles out prototypically correct from the body surfaces, and will be foile in finish work:

[Eric Macleod]

GTX6970, yes my Franklins are air cooled but in 1929 they changed the frames from wood to steel.

 

Art, I really like the door handles.  They are a fiddly detail but will be worth the effort. 

[Art Anderson]

Running board brackets!   This is something that I wish, today, that model companies would do for cars of the 1930's on back--but I do understand that when most such kits were created, model car building was primarily a "kid" thing--and we kids years ago were often turned off by "fiddly" stuff. The brackets are two piece, Evergreen styrene.  I put together a "mule" fender unit with running boards, which will serve for every Duesenberg I may build with factory fenders, etc.

http://images15.fotki.com/v1631/filesgit/96f8b/4/43743/3168549/hassiswithrunningboardbrackets.jpg

Art

 

Edited June 10, 2016 by Art Anderson
visible picture

[Art Anderson]

Running board brackets, Part 2:  they are now done on both sides of the chassis.  While a bit of a challenge, they were not as fiddly as I once imagined!

 

[Art Anderson]

Running board brackets!   This is something that I wish, today, that model companies would do for cars of the 1930's on back--but I do understand that when most such kits were created, model car building was primarily a "kid" thing--and we kids years ago were often turned off by "fiddly" stuff.

http://images15.fotki.com/v1631/filesgit/96f8b/4/43743/3168549/hassiswithrunningboardbrackets.jpg

Art

Update: If one looks at any Duesenberg, even any car of the era with "teaspoon" front fenders, the very visible detail is the front fender bracket that steadies not only the sheet metal fender, but the headlights. With that in mind, I determined to make those--they were "hat section" in cross section, curved, of course, to fit the fender contour.  So, a bit of work with Evergreen styrene, flat strip along with a thicker strip carved to shape.  This is the result!  I scratchbuilt a bracket, then made a mold and cast it in urethane resin, actually two of them, and will cast more for future projects!

[Art Anderson]

Running board brackets!   This is something that I wish, today, that model companies would do for cars of the 1930's on back--but I do understand that when most such kits were created, model car building was primarily a "kid" thing--and we kids years ago were often turned off by "fiddly" stuff.

http://images15.fotki.com/v1631/filesgit/96f8b/4/43743/3168549/hassiswithrunningboardbrackets.jpg

Art

Leaning on that Testors paint bottle is the original master for casting the final brackets that will be used for several more Duesenbergs!

 

[Art Anderson]

It's a bit past time for a new update:  First, after a lot of consideration, I decided that the Berline needs to be much more formal-looking,  with blanked off rear quarter panels providing greater privacy for the rear seat passengers--so I used some sheet styrene, along with CA glue, and just a thin swipe of "spot & glaze" putty to remove all traces of those offending quarter windows:

Next, I test-fitted the interior together, sans side panels, for seat placement (as cast, the divider wall is about 3/32" too far back, so that has to be moved forward.   The interior side panels are "from the beltline down", and will need to be relieved a bit to clear .015" clear sheet plastic for the side windows.  In addition, I decided to get rid of the very "1932-ish" Ford windshield shape, and go with a wider, more angular look, so that means building an all new windshield frame from strip styrene.

It's starting to come together, I think.

Art

 

 

[sjordan2]

Much better.

[Spex84]

Cool! Love the fender braces, too.

Might I suggest sweeping the drip molding over the doors down into the beltline, and perhaps rounding the upper rear corner of the window frame on the back doors?

 

[Art Anderson]

Cool! Love the fender braces, too.

Might I suggest sweeping the drip molding over the doors down into the beltline, and perhaps rounding the upper rear corner of the window frame on the back doors?

 

Running board brackets!   This is something that I wish, today, that model companies would do for cars of the 1930's on back--but I do understand that when most such kits were created, model car building was primarily a "kid" thing--and we kids years ago were often turned off by "fiddly" stuff.

http://images15.fotki.com/v1631/filesgit/96f8b/4/43743/3168549/hassiswithrunningboardbrackets.jpg

Art

I had considered curving the drain moldings as you suggest, but that would have made the coachwork a bit "busier" than I wanted--besides having any number of pics of such a formal car with the drain moldings as I've got them--it's a judgement call, Chris.   As for altering the side windows in any way--I want to keep the character of the source of the fictitious body.

Art