Is duplicolor better then rustoleum primer?

[juicegoose]

I needed a black primer the other day and ran by my local hardware store. They had this rustoleum 2x coverage black primer and I picked a can up to lay as a base under my HOK kandy base coats.  Problem is it doesn't cover for junk. I can usually presand my plastic with 220 and use the sem primer I have in grey and it covers well with a nice smooth surface. This rustoleum just simply doesn't build high.

 

Which duplicolor does everyone seem to be using. I ran by my local auto store and they had several versions.

This will be a black primer under 3 coats of house of kolor kandy base coat followed up with 3 coats of the 2 part hok show clear.

[Longbox55]

http://www.duplicolor.com/product/sandable-primer

 

[juicegoose]

great thanks 

[Chariots of Fire]

In my opinion it is.  Duplicolor dries fast and hard.  Rustoleum in my experience can remain soft for quite a while.

[Jon Haigwood]

http://www.duplicolor.com/product/sandable-primer

 

This is what I have been using. Seems to work the best. Comes in white black and red.

[aurfalien]

That's interesting as I've had great luck with the Rustoleum 2x Painters Touch primer.

I use a few thin coats and let dry for a day or 3 due to it being an enamel.

I think you can't beat how fast, thorough and smooth it covers.  It's comparable to Tamiya which I think is the best primer in terms of smooth and dry time.

I've used that Duplicover and it also rocks.

In fact the only primer that I've had piss poor luck with is Design Master which is thick like syrup and rough like wool.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

Duplicolor primers will SEVERELY CRAZE some of the current and recent plastics that kits are made of. 

See this thread for more information:   http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/116530-duplicolor-primers-too-hot-for-current-production-kits/

[Art Anderson]

Duplicolor primers will SEVERELY CRAZE some of the current and recent plastics that kits are made of. 

See this thread for more information:   http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/116530-duplicolor-primers-too-hot-for-current-production-kits/

Seriously?   I've NEVER had a problem with Duplicolor Sandable Primer.   For starters, I find that an airbrush (Oh, I know, that requires decanting the paint into my color jar, but I've been doing that with all rattle can primers since the late 1960's) works best for such paint.  I always decant some primer into my 1oz color jar, then add approximately 20% more lacquer thinner to it, and mix thoroughly.  I then lay this primer on in light coats  the first of which will lightly "frost" the plastic--meaning very fine crazing (so fine that it literally disappears with another pass with the airbrush!.  For lack of a better description, I have come to call this "shock-proofing" the surface.  I proceed rather slowly, with light coat passes, until the primer color is uniform.  Once dry (this takes no more than 15-20 minutes, and then actually polish the primer with a Micromesh 6,000 or 8000 grit polishing cloth.  This allows any surface imperfections to show up darkly where the polishing cloth (used wet, BTW) can't reach--then it becomes a decision as to whether to use a bit of lacquer spot & glaze putty, or will some heavier application of primer followed by polishing do the trick?  Once I am satisfied with the surface corrections, I simply airbrush the same strength primer all over, to get a uniform surface.  

It may sound like heresy, but I seldom ever polish the primer after this, only doing such if I see a fleck of lint or dust.

It's a system that I have come to call "TSC": Thin (the primer in a spray can is still far too thick in my opinion for a good job--hence some lacquer thinner (I like Kleen-Strip lacquer thinner a lot, it's relatively inexpensive, and widely available), so I thin all paint, be it lacquer or enamel, to approximately the consistency of 2% milk.  Soft means adjusting my airbrush down to a soft spray--which I do by opening the petcock on the bottom of my now 54 yr old Binks water trap (which is in the middle of the air hoses from compressor to airbrush), to bleed off excess air.  "C" stands for Close:  by using weil thinned lacquers (even enamels!) and a soft air pressure, I can move my airbrush in quite close--I do most of my airbrush finishes at no more than an inch to and inch and a half from the surface.  This allows me to get not only a thin layer of paint with each pass, but also ensures that each pass will be nearly as smooth as glass (for replica stock models, where there is nice surface detail such as badges, scripts and chrome trim spears, this actually makes those details really stand out.   Where there are prominent body characteristics, such as tail fins, or raised character lines, those get several more passes with the airbrush, just to give a thicker coat of color which greatly minimizes the risk of rubbing through the paint in such raised spots when polishing.

This is a method I developed over the years, with a lot of forethought, and even more practice--but I will stand by it.

 

Art

Edited September 11, 2016 by Art Anderson

[aurfalien]

Hi Art,

What PSI on avg do you use for thin paint?

[Mike_G]

I needed a black primer the other day and ran by my local hardware store. They had this rustoleum 2x coverage black primer and I picked a can up to lay as a base under my HOK kandy base coats.  Problem is it doesn't cover for junk. I can usually presand my plastic with 220 and use the sem primer I have in grey and it covers well with a nice smooth surface. This rustoleum just simply doesn't build high.

220 grit is pretty coarse for body sanding, I'd advise using a finer grit so your primer won't need to fill such deep scratches  

[Ace-Garageguy]

Seriously?   I've NEVER had a problem with Duplicolor Sandable Primer.  

Yeah, seriously. Shot from the can, which is what I assumed the OP was getting at.

I first noticed a run of sensitive plastic on a fairly recent Revell '50 Olds. Crazed, but not terrible. Next one was a Gunze Ferrari 250 GTO. Glad I shot the undersides first, 'cause it went crazy.

Most recent was a Revell '29 Ford body. Shot with Duplicolor red sandable from the can; it crazed so badly it had to become an experimental rusty weathering job.

PLEASE NOTE: I'm currently doing an old Lindberg Gee Bee with the same Duplicolor materials, shot from the cans. NO PROBLEM, just like I've been used to doing for years. The old Lindberg plastic will stand up to VERY HOT SEM automotive self-etching primers with no crazing too...as will many older Revell, AMT, Pyro, and Johan kit plastics.

The plastic formulations in some of the recent models is substandard snot.

I'm not interested in arguing. I know how to paint. These are my observations. And I'm not the only very experienced modeler having this issue.

Your method is perfectly workable, but until quite recently, it simply wasn't necessary for ME to go to all that rigmarole just to get a decent coat of primer down.

Edited September 11, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[crazyjim]

I keep an inventory of a couple cans of each color of Duplicolor sandable primers, a couple cans of their primer/filler, and also a couple cans of their primer/sealer.

[Jantrix]

I've been using using Krylon primers under EVERYTHING for years now with no issues. 

[Art Anderson]

Hi Art,

What PSI on avg do you use for thin paint?

No pressure gauge, as my compressor is a diaphragm unit, but I'm able to reduce the air pressure by bleeding off air at my moisture trap (as I described)  down to more than an acceptable level, giving me approximately a quarter inch or so wide spray fan with my airbrush about 1" from the surface being sprayed.   This is where the "Thin" part of my technique comes into play, as the thinner the paint, the less air pressure is needed.  I guess I would call it "reducing" the paint spray pattern to something close to 1:25 scale.  But it was a "try it and see how it works" sort of thing,  that turned out to be a fast learning--it just was never hard to learn to do.  BTW, I do all my painting with a Paasche H, with #3 material control nozzle.

Art

[Art Anderson]

I needed a black primer the other day and ran by my local hardware store. They had this rustoleum 2x coverage black primer and I picked a can up to lay as a base under my HOK kandy base coats.  Problem is it doesn't cover for junk. I can usually presand my plastic with 220 and use the sem primer I have in grey and it covers well with a nice smooth surface. This rustoleum just simply doesn't build high.

I'm with Bill on this, that 220-grit is awfully coarse for preparing a surface for painting.  I've used 400 and 600 grit Wet or Dry sandpaper ever since I got my first AMT Styline Customizing kits way back in 1961--those came with a small sheet of 400-grit.  I figure that with surface prep, I worry more about roughness in the surface, sink marks that need a bit of filler, to be far more important than just about anything else--the smoother the surface of the body shell prior to any primer or paint is by far the most important issue.

Art

[Mike_G]

I'm with Bill on this, that 220-grit is awfully coarse for preparing a surface for painting.

I'm glad you agree with Bill

[oldcarfan]

I don't use Rustoleum for anything voluntarily. It stays tacky for a long time. Krylon seems to dry pretty quickly and of course Dupli Color is best. IMO.

[935k3]

In a word, YES. Plastikote is even better if you can find it.

[aurfalien]

In a word, YES. Plastikote is even better if you can find it.

The new nozzle is horrid, but changing it out with a Tamiya nozzle works dandy.

[935k3]

The new nozzle is horrid, but changing it out with a Tamiya nozzle works dandy.

Yes the nozzles suck and I use the Tamiya nozzles also. The paint is great and sands beautifully.