Whatever happened to the Dodge Diplomats?

[Jantrix]

In the early 1990s I picked up a 73 Plymouth Scamp for the tidy sum of $900. I drove it for several years and enjoyed it quite a lot but at some point there had to be a replacement for that little slant six. The plan was to find myself an old Dodge Diplomat police car and swap in the whole police package 318 or maybe a 360 if I was lucky. But when they cycled out of use they just disappeared. What happened to them? I've heard rumors that the government got involved and had all of them turned into razor blades because they didn't want those powerful little engines in the hands of 18 year olds. I don't know if it's true or not but all I know is I never could find any. I never saw any used as taxis either.

[CometMan]

I do remember seeing some ex-police Diplomats being used as Taxis, or by teenagers as their beaters, Rob. Not nearly as many as the '70s Dodge Monacos, '90s Ford Crown Vics, or '00s Chevy Impalas, but they were out there. Chances are that some folks with better "contacts" beat you to your idea. Then, after pulling the power train out, scrapped the rest of the car, so they didn't make it to "public auction" too often.

[Ace-Garageguy]

 I've heard rumors that the government got involved and had all of them turned into razor blades because they didn't want those powerful little engines in the hands of 18 year olds. I don't know if it's true or not but all I know is I never could find any. I never saw any used as taxis either.

Nah man...they REALLY all got driven to the edge of the flat-Earth and pushed off. All part of the Masons / Rothschilds / NWO conspiracy. I saw it on youtube.

Seriously, far as I know, there wasn't anything really spectacular about the engines. The "police" package had more to do with improving long-term stamina than making them fast...things like stronger timing chains and I think roller-cam-followers at some point.

That series also had a problem with metal fatigue (in heavy urban use) of the front crossmember that supported the somewhat odd transverse torsion bar suspension. I wouldn't be surprised if that accounted for a lot of early retirements and a failure to make it into the taxi ranks in large numbers.

Being a not-particularly-desirable V8-powered old car, I also wouldn't be surprised if significant numbers didn't meet their ignoble ends in the oh-so-helpful "Cash for Clunkers" program. Government intervention at its finest.

The movie and TV industry blew up and crashed a lot of them, too.

Still, there's no shortage of used 318 and 360 engines out there if you really want one (in the $250-$500 range)...and anything pulled out of a retired cop car or cab would most likely be pretty tired.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Xingu]

Every now and then one or two show up on AutoTrader.com, but not very often.

[Mark]

There seemed to be a lot of them around here, too...a number of police agencies used them.  Some got pressed into taxi service, but not many.  The "downsized full size" Chevy was the taxi of choice around here, especially the pre-1991 "box".  The hack companies around here were slow to switch to the '91-up "bubble" body style because the earlier ones were so numerous, and parts so cheap.  Parts for the cop car Diplomat/Gran Fury always seemed to be hard to find.  I wanted a set of the six-slot cop car wheels for the early Dakota I had back then, never could find any...the Mopar guys were snatching them up.

Trivia: the last couple of years of production, the Diplomat/Gran Fury was assembled in Kenosha by AMC.  Chrysler needed production capacity to keep building the cop cars, AMC had facilities that were way underutilized.  They'd dropped their own rear-drive cars after '83, and switched over to the Renault-based front-drive stuff that stopped selling after the first couple of years.      

[Jantrix]

Still, there's no shortage of used 318 and 360 engines out there if you really want one (in the $250-$500 range)...and anything pulled out of a retired cop car or cab would most likely be pretty tired.

Unfortunately I have long since sold the Scamp. A major regret in my life. But we added a four door when the kids came and having the extra car when I was deploying so much, seemed pointless. Not to mention it seemed to be needing more and more TLC and as an E4 in the service, there wasn't a lot of spending money. It was a vinyl top car and if you have ever heard the old rumor that they put vinyl tops on cars with bad c-pillar welds, well with this car it was certainly true. I took the top off and found a port hole on either side. I really wish I could have found a way to keep it, but ............... alas.

I drove a few diplomats in my brief stint as a county deputy here in FL, in the late 80's. Plenty of power. I'll agree they might have been tired, but very well maintained.

[Tom Geiger]

Found one on my local Craigslist:

86 Dodge Diplomat - $1000 (Minersville) hide this posting

1986 dodge diplomat

fuel: gas
odometer: 65285
title status: clean
transmission: automatic

•  

1986 Dodge Diplomat 

In storage for 12 years
Last inspected in 2004
Ran perfectly 5 years ago

Want gone ASAP

Phone calls only 9am-9pm Leave a message.

[StevenGuthmiller]

I wonder why there aren't any around any more?

Is this worth saving?

All the style & flair of dry white toast.

Is it any mystery that nobody is hoarding these?

By the way, I owned a 1972 Plymouth Fury & my mother had a '78 Chrysler LeBaron, both with the 360 engine.

Biggest dog either one of us ever owned.

Now that I think of it, the styling was closer to white toast than I originally thought!

 

Steve

Edited August 30, 2016 by StevenGuthmiller

[Jantrix]

I'm not saying they were great and I missem, I just wanted the drive-train out of one.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I didn't have much use for them when they were current, but the "plain wrapper" cop-car looks have kinda grown on me. Now that they should mostly be out-of-emissions, I can see a pretty cool little sleeper built around a hot 340. 

[CometMan]

I wonder why there aren't any around any more?

Is this worth saving?

All the style & flair of dry white toast.

If you threw in 4 fried-chickens & a Coke, you might be in business!

[StevenGuthmiller]

I'm not saying they were great and I missem, I just wanted the drive-train out of one.

I guess my main point is, if you were looking for an engine to transplant, why not go with something a few years older with a little horse power.

By the time these things came out, the V-8s would have made a better boat anchor than a power plant.

A friend of mine back in school had a '70 Satellite with a 318 in it.

Definitely not a monster by any stretch, but it held it's own for a little small block.

In 1970, a 318 two barrel put out about 230 horses.

By 1974 a 440 four barrel rated about the same.

We had a 1975 Dodge Monaco wagon with a 440 when I was a kid.

My dad fumed every time he drove it because it couldn't get out of it's own way.

 

Steve

[slusher]

I wonder why there aren't any around any more?

Is this worth saving?

All the style & flair of dry white toast.

Is it any mystery that nobody is hoarding these?

By the way, I owned a 1972 Plymouth Fury & my mother had a '78 Chrysler LeBaron, both with the 360 engine.

Biggest dog either one of us ever owned.

Now that I think of it, the styling was closer to white toast than I originally thought!

 

 

Steve

I bought a cast off Plymouth Fury in 93 it was an 86 and had a 318 with a thermoquad . Was the chief of police car from Selmer, TN. White with tan interior. Front seat cloth back seat vinyal, fast but not what you would think. I did some work to it but mostly brakes,tires, and exhaust. I had turbos and turn downs tight out of the turbos. Paited the steel wheels silver and put a good radio in it. It had 130,000 when i bought it at 700 dollars and i drove it for a couple years sold it to my nephew for what i had in it. He totaled it but he was 17...

[charlie8575]

You can get a E58 318 (or pretty close) with a Thermoquad or any other decent 4-bbl and an Edelbrock Performer Plus intake. As Bill noted, they had double-roller timing chains, heavy-duty oil pumps and roller lifters from the mid-late '80s forward. Other than that, they were the same 140-HP 2-bbl. 318, just with a few extra pieces for a little more power and durability.

A roller-profile cam is available for a 318, I think, although I'm not sure from who. I would recommend one for lower-end power for better launch and mileage.

Charlie Larkin

[Jantrix]

I guess my main point is, if you were looking for an engine to transplant, why not go with something a few years older with a little horse power.

 

 

I understand your point, but I wasn't looking for just the engine. Since the Scamp and Diplomat were based on the same platform I was looking to exchange the engine, exhaust system, front and rear suspension, brakes, rear end and tranny crossmember with necessary cutouts for dual exhaust. I had access at the time to a full garage and technical assistance. I figured I could rebuild the entire chassis as cheaply as possible. After I had a running car, then I would worry about rebuilding the engine to provide more power. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

[StevenGuthmiller]

I understand your point, but I wasn't looking for just the engine. Since the Scamp and Diplomat were based on the same platform I was looking to exchange the engine, exhaust system, front and rear suspension, brakes, rear end and tranny crossmember with necessary cutouts for dual exhaust. I had access at the time to a full garage and technical assistance. I figured I could rebuild the entire chassis as cheaply as possible. After I had a running car, then I would worry about rebuilding the engine to provide more power. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

I got ya.

Sounds like a boat load of work!

 

Steve

[Jantrix]

I got ya.

Sounds like a boat load of work!

 

Steve

Yep. I was living on Scott AFB and the guy that ran the base autoshop was a close friend. We were planning on bringing in like six guys and knock it out over a few weekends. I'm not sure how feasible this is today, but my pal was pretty confident. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

I understand your point, but I wasn't looking for just the engine. Since the Scamp and Diplomat were based on the same platform I was looking to exchange the engine, exhaust system, front and rear suspension, brakes, rear end and tranny crossmember with necessary cutouts for dual exhaust. I had access at the time to a full garage and technical assistance. I figured I could rebuild the entire chassis as cheaply as possible. After I had a running car, then I would worry about rebuilding the engine to provide more power. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

Cool idea. All "police-interceptor" guts under a Scamp would have been interesting, for sure. Still, swapping in a mildly warmed-over 340 and a beefed up 727 trans would have made a pretty quick (probably a lot faster than the smogged police version) and extremely tough grocery getter, maybe with junkyard HD front discs and upgraded shocks to round out the setup.  

[JTalmage]

Friend of mine had a Plymouth Fury ex cop car of the diplomat body style. Had the 360 in it w/ an adapter on the intake to run a Quadrajet 4 bbl carb. Supposedly that was as installed by Chrysler for the police units. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

This is what Allpar has to say about this series of cars. They're usually pretty accurate, though they don't go into exactly which carb Chrysler fitted for the 4-bbl versions.      http://www.allpar.com/squads/diplomat.html

I have to say that of all the govt-issue cars I've driven, I vastly prefer the Ford Crown Vic to anything else.

[gtx6970]

I understand your point, but I wasn't looking for just the engine. Since the Scamp and Diplomat were based on the same platform I was looking to exchange the engine, exhaust system, front and rear suspension, brakes, rear end and tranny crossmember with necessary cutouts for dual exhaust. I had access at the time to a full garage and technical assistance. I figured I could rebuild the entire chassis as cheaply as possible. After I had a running car, then I would worry about rebuilding the engine to provide more power. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

a 1973 Scamp, shares NOTHING in common with the suspension front or rear on a mid eighties Diplomat body style

About the only thing you could have used was engine and trans ,,and maybe the disc brakes

[Jantrix]

a 1973 Scamp, shares NOTHING in common with the suspension front or rear on a mid eighties Diplomat body style

About the only thing you could have used was engine and trans ,,and maybe the disc brakes

I believe you. I'm far from an expert in anything automotive. I was told by someone I trusted that they shared a common chassis, at the time. Never had the opportunity to do a comparison.

[Mark]

I believe you. I'm far from an expert in anything automotive. I was told by someone I trusted that they shared a common chassis, at the time. Never had the opportunity to do a comparison.

The Scamp/Dart/Dart Sport/Duster had lengthwise torsion bars up front, the Aspen/Volare/Diplomat/Gran Fury had a transverse torsion bar setup.  The platforms were different.  The rear end might have bolted into the earlier car, but I wouldn't even bet on that.  The later transverse torsion bar front suspension unbolted from the car as a self-contained unit, steering box and engine mounts included.  Those were popular swap material for a brief period.  My older brother swapped one of those into a late Fifties Chevy pickup about twenty years ago.  The guy wanted the truck really low in front.  The frame rails got notched pretty deeply so as to get that unit as high up as possible relative to the frame.  If you fabricated the mounts, you could bolt that unit in with insulators as on the donor car, but for most swaps (including the Chevy) the unit got welded to the frame.  That truck (I think it was a '58) got the Gran Fury front suspension, a later Chevy rear axle, a big-block Chevy engine, and a tilt steering column (without the ignition lock; might have been out of a van).  It rolled out under its own power (certainly didn't come in that way), but I don't think the guy did anything with it after that.  Probably still sitting in his yard...

[slusher]

a 1973 Scamp, shares NOTHING in common with the suspension front or rear on a mid eighties Diplomat body style

About the only thing you could have used was engine and trans ,,and maybe the disc brakes

Curious Bill would you have to change the front coil springs if you drop a 318,or 360 in a scamp that had a slant 6 cyl ???

[gtx6970]

Curious Bill would you have to change the front coil springs if you drop a 318,or 360 in a scamp that had a slant 6 cyl ???

originally they would have been a differemt torsion bar....but imo. Just adjust the bar up to compensate to the added weight