Its All About the Paint

[Dann Tier]

All due respect to the contest I would have taken your model as #1. That is smooth and finely laid paint. With no dust I might add. That is a hell of a lot harder than weathering a car to look rusted.

I disagree.....If you lay down an unsatisfactory finish, you can sand it, or buff it smooth. With NO disrespect to ANYONE, buffing a finish to a shine doesn't take skill, just careful persistence. Even the most untalented builder could win Best Paint if they wanted to. The actual detailing, and building (discluding paint designes that are of special design or application) is what takes artistic talent. IMO, the easiest type of model to build is a clean, brand new looking car. It takes more know-how to pull off a convincing "weathered" look. Its easy to have it go bad due to over-kill, or wrong placement (can't buff that out). A modeler who weathers also, usually has a ton more products to use and be good with. Sorry if anyones feelings are hurt, but lets face it, weathering is WAAAAY harder than somebody sitting down watching TV while they put polish on a rag and buff paint smooth.....literally anybody can do it. knowing when to stop isn't a talent, its called, "using your eyes".  I Build my cars with what I call "slight" weathering, or as if they were brand new, and I have a TON of respect for those that can do a realistic weathering job!!      -just a clarification: building Realistic "klean, or New" cars IS very hard to do, and IS art, BUT "weathering" is even darder than that.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Dann Tier

[DiscoRover007]

I disagree.....If you lay down an unsatisfactory finish, you can sand it, or buff it smooth. With NO disrespect to ANYONE, buffing a finish to a shine doesn't take skill, just careful persistence. Even the most untalented builder could win Best Paint if they wanted to. The actual detailing, and building (discluding paint designes that are of special design or application) is what takes artistic talent. IMO, the easiest type of model to build is a clean, brand new looking car. It takes more know-how to pull off a convincing "weathered" look. Its easy to have it go bad due to over-kill, or wrong placement (can't buff that out). A modeler who weathers also, usually has a ton more products to use and be good with. Sorry if anyones feelings are hurt, but lets face it, weathering is WAAAAY harder than somebody sitting down watching TV while they put polish on a rag and buff paint smooth.....literally anybody can do it. knowing when to stop isn't a talent, its called, "using your eyes".  I Build my cars with what I call "slight" weathering, or as if they were brand new, and I have a TON of respect for those that can do a realistic weathering job!!      -just a clarification: building Realistic "klean, or New" cars IS very hard to do, and IS art, BUT "weathering" is even darder than that.

Agree to disagree. I think weathering is rather easy. Weathering also gives you an easy out when you have blemishes in the paint. Also if you mess up you can polish your flat paints off and respray. 

Getting a perfect paint job is not easy. Weathering things like exhausts definitely takes skill and is rather easy to mess up and over kill. 

I think it just depends on what you're going for.

[StevenGuthmiller]

I disagree.....If you lay down an unsatisfactory finish, you can sand it, or buff it smooth. With NO disrespect to ANYONE, buffing a finish to a shine doesn't take skill, just careful persistence. Even the most untalented builder could win Best Paint if they wanted to. The actual detailing, and building (discluding paint designes that are of special design or application) is what takes artistic talent. IMO, the easiest type of model to build is a clean, brand new looking car. It takes more know-how to pull off a convincing "weathered" look. Its easy to have it go bad due to over-kill, or wrong placement (can't buff that out). A modeler who weathers also, usually has a ton more products to use and be good with. Sorry if anyones feelings are hurt, but lets face it, weathering is WAAAAY harder than somebody sitting down watching TV while they put polish on a rag and buff paint smooth.....literally anybody can do it. knowing when to stop isn't a talent, its called, "using your eyes".  I Build my cars with what I call "slight" weathering, or as if they were brand new, and I have a TON of respect for those that can do a realistic weathering job!!      -just a clarification: building Realistic "klean, or New" cars IS very hard to do, and IS art, BUT "weathering" is even darder than that.

I agree with what you say to some extent Dann.

It is relatively easy to polish up a not so perfect paint job if you know what you're doing.

Otherwise things can go south in a hurry.

My paint jobs are far from perfect straight out of the can or airbrush, so I get a good portion of my results from the polishing process.

But how you get there is basically unimportant.

My question is, if it is simple to get a perfectly polished paint job, why doesn't everyone have beautiful paint jobs?

Every one we see should be.

To be perfectly honest, that has been one of my goals on these forums.

To let everybody know that you don't have to be a master painter in order to get good results.

Now, the guys who can shoot perfect paint from an airbrush or can, & never have to touch it with a pad or polish........those guys are the true masters!

Anybody can weather as well, but just like everything else, it takes practice.

Steve

[Dann Tier]

I agree with what you say to some extent Dann.

It is relatively easy to polish up a not so perfect paint job if you know what you're doing.

Otherwise things can go south in a hurry.

My paint jobs are far from perfect straight out of the can or airbrush, so I get a good portion of my results from the polishing process.

But how you get there is basically unimportant.

My question is, if it is simple to get a perfectly polished paint job, why doesn't everyone have beautiful paint jobs?

Every one we see should be.

To be perfectly honest, that has been one of my goals on these forums.

To let everybody know that you don't have to be a master painter in order to get good results.

Now, the guys who can shoot perfect paint from an airbrush or can, & never have to touch it with a pad or polish........those guys are the true masters!

Anybody can weather as well, but just like everything else, it takes practice.

Steve

I don't know why others don't have "perfect" finishes, but as for me, I refuse to polish. As I've said in other topics in the past, I STRONGLY believe that the finish MUST be scaled down like everything else, most people polish WAY too much. On my bodies I put two coats of filler-primer, sand with 2000, another coat of filler, sand again with 2000, then followed by three light coats of color, sanded with 2000 in between each coat, and then, last but not least, three to four coats of clear sanded between each coat with 2000. I will NEVER win best paint, because I refuse to do it the way everybody else does it, but I don't care. Guess that's my stubborn kraut side coming out, lol. To me, and many others, most of my builds look real, and that's good enough for me. Steve, your finishes are an exception to most of the rules. Like me, you probably re-scribe your seams, which helps keep things looking scaled down and sharp. most of the "polished beauties" out there are so polished/full of paint and clear that seams, and details disappear. If these finishes were scaled up to full size, ALL the edges would be REDICULOUSLY rounded, and chunky-looking. I don't know how many out there actually sand between every coat, but I would venture to guess that quite a few put the primer and paint down, then rely on the polishing to smooth the finish out. IMO, this would lead to the over-polishing look. There are ALWAYS exceptions to everything, and Steve, you are one of the very few who can pull-off a polish job and still have the model look real.

[Dann Tier]

Agree to disagree. I think weathering is rather easy. Weathering also gives you an easy out when you have blemishes in the paint. Also if you mess up you can polish your flat paints off and respray. 

Getting a perfect paint job is not easy. Weathering things like exhausts definitely takes skill and is rather easy to mess up and over kill. 

I think it just depends on what you're going for.

I will agree to disagree with you too, no worries, these are the things that challenge our thoughts and keep us learning

[StevenGuthmiller]

 but I would venture to guess that quite a few put the primer and paint down, then rely on the polishing to smooth the finish out. IMO, this would lead to the over-polishing look.

That's exactly how I do it!

I find it's much less work to polish once at the end than to sand between every coat.

Or, to be more truthful, I'm just too darn lazy to do all of that sanding!

I will do some "strategic" sanding between coats on occasion, but usually at the end during clear coats.

 

Steve

[Snake45]

That's exactly how I do it!

I find it's much less work to polish once at the end than to sand between every coat.

Or, to be more truthful, I'm just too darn lazy to do all of that sanding!

I will do some "strategic" sanding between coats on occasion, but usually at the end during clear coats.

 

Steve

Me too. I now try to do as LITTLE polishing as possible, but I'll do all that's necessary to achieve the finish I'm looking for on a particular model. Which might be a lot, or none at all.

[Xingu]

I see primer anytime a polishing cloth gets to close to something I painted.

I use the "Wing and a Prayer" painting method.

[StevenGuthmiller]

I see primer anytime a polishing cloth gets to close to something I painted.

That's part of the reason why I use up to 5 coats of clear!

 

Steve

Edited March 8, 2017 by StevenGuthmiller

[Snake45]

That's part of the reason why I use up to 5 coats of clear!

 

Steve

Oh, I've used more than that. And less. And none at all. It all depends on the paint, the contours of the model itself, the effect I'm trying to achieve, the phase of the moon, my mood at the time, etc etc etc.

For example, here's a couple I used no clearcoat on, just rubbed out direct. I was going for a Day Two (factory finish) look on this MPC '69 Camaro, so I laid the Model Master Brit Green on as smoothly as I could (airbrush) and then gave it only a very LIGHT rubout, normally a no-no with metallic paint, but I thought I could get away with it. And I did. I deliberately left just a hint of "orange peel" for a factory look.

 

This AMT '62 Vette got three or four coats of Model Master Honduras Maroon from the can, also rubbed out direct (no clear coat) as an experiment that I think worked.

Dan, I'd love to hear your opinion of these.

[peteski]

I can easily see a well-weathered beater beat out a nice shiny paint job.  Maybe people think that weathering is easy, but  good realistic weathering takes time and skill, and I would say that it is as difficult or even more difficult than a good glossy paint job.

I also don't polish my paint jobs and yet I have won some pretty prestigious awards for my models. If I had to spend hours sanding and buffing my models I would quit the hobby - that is not for me.  To me my paint jobs are good enough without polishing, but I know that everybody's different.

[Snake45]

good realistic weathering takes time and skill, and I would say that it is as difficult or even more difficult than a good glossy paint job.

 

I agree with you completely, but I can tell you that the majority of weathering jobs I've seen on model cars and airplanes both are WAY overdone--some almost comically so. But a GOOD one is a thing of beauty.

[Dann Tier]

Oh, I've used more than that. And less. And none at all. It all depends on the paint, the contours of the model itself, the effect I'm trying to achieve, the phase of the moon, my mood at the time, etc etc etc.

For example, here's a couple I used no clearcoat on, just rubbed out direct. I was going for a Day Two (factory finish) look on this MPC '69 Camaro, so I laid the Model Master Brit Green on as smoothly as I could (airbrush) and then gave it only a very LIGHT rubout, normally a no-no with metallic paint, but I thought I could get away with it. And I did. I deliberately left just a hint of "orange peel" for a factory look.

 

This AMT '62 Vette got three or four coats of Model Master Honduras Maroon from the can, also rubbed out direct (no clear coat) as an experiment that I think worked.

Dan, I'd love to hear your opinion of these.

Its hard to give you my opinion on the Camaro with all the residue left on it, but the Corvette to me doesn't look "out of scale" glossy to me. I think it looks pretty nice! All the seams look pretty crisp still, even with the slightly "fuzzy" photos.

[Dann Tier]

I can easily see a well-weathered beater beat out a nice shiny paint job.  Maybe people think that weathering is easy, but  good realistic weathering takes time and skill, and I would say that it is as difficult or even more difficult than a good glossy paint job.

I also don't polish my paint jobs and yet I have won some pretty prestigious awards for my models. If I had to spend hours sanding and buffing my models I would quit the hobby - that is not for me.  To me my paint jobs are good enough without polishing, but I know that everybody's different.

I'm with you, all my builds have taken home a lot of trophies, Best engine, interior detail, Best show , and so on, BUT I've never gotten a Best paint. Still my cars won overall, even though you couldn't see a 747 from 3000 feet in the finish. About weathering, you also have to know what way to weather a certain material, example: I saw a model in a magazine that had a VERY realistic rust job all over the body. problem was, it was a fiberglass Corvette. Realism gone.

[PARTSMARTY]

I'm a freak on great paint jobs.But in the same thought I don't care about contest quality because I build for me first and hope everybody likes what I do.And I have to agree with what CRAZY JIM always says-"SHINY RULES".

[tbill]

for me, it may not even need to be shiny to catch my attention, but it had better be smooth. nothing kills a model quicker than the paint job looking like undercoat.

[Brett Barrow]

As someone who bounces around to different modeling genres I will say that weathered vs shiny takes two different sets of skills and to do either well takes a lot of those skills.  That said, I believe that a realistic weathered finish takes more time and more labor than a realistic shiny paint job. I used to have a lot more trouble laying down a smooth flat paint job without it going gritty than when laying down a smooth glossy paint.  A booger in a weathered paint job still sticks out especially when you start adding washes (the wash collects around the booger and makes it really pop).  

[Snake45]

Its hard to give you my opinion on the Camaro with all the residue left on it,

Residue? I suspect what you're seeing is the reflection of the wavy-textured glass patio tabletop it's sitting on.