Pro Touring 69 Camaro Chassis Questions?

[KWT]

I'm tinkering with an idea of a pro touring type build. Gonna try it out first on the Revell 69 Camaro. They're easy to come by, and look good when finished. After getting my feet wet, then move on to other muscle cars... conundrum... since the photobuckers BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH, I keep coming up empty handed in the picture research department on here and other forums.

Does anyone have any pics of their chassis'?  Any advice or directions? resin chassis'?

Thank ya much

[Ace-Garageguy]

If you were building a real car, because the Camaro is a unibody, a full chassis swap isn't a very realistic option.

Typically, a real car built in this genre would get front suspension swapped out with something tubular to replace the stamped control arms, and big disc brakes.

Upgraded rear suspension could be as simple as a Ford 9" with more sophisticated locating (a Panhard bar, some kind of traction bars to limit spring windup, and a big anti-roll bar) all the way to a complete IRS and transaxle swap from something like a late-model Corvette.

 

Edited November 3, 2017 by Ace-Garageguy

[KWT]

So I should look into possibly pimpin out a Corvette kit...

[Ace-Garageguy]

So I should look into possibly pimpin out a Corvette kit...

Actually, because the Corvette is still a full-frame car, you could swap a '69 Camaro body on to it in the real-world.

Lotsa work in 1:1, but entirely doable...and a lot easier on a model than modifying the stock Camaro chassis to take all the Corvette mechanicals.

Late model Corvette kits (C5, C6) can be found pretty cheap too.

[Snake45]

If I wanted to PS a '69 Camaro, I'd look into using the "back half" of the chassis from the AMT '66 Nova. Should be about the right size. 

Or, possibly, use the whole Nova chassis and graft in the Camaro (front) subframe. I'm thinking of doing exactly this to build a PS '66 Nova with a big block in it. (And now Ace will tell us why neither idea would work in real life. )

[Muncie]

A couple of places to check out for 1 to 1 pro-touring chassis reference....

Art Morrison Chassis Enterprises - https://www.artmorrison.com/homepage2.php - plenty of chassis and suspension parts information in their catalog and lots of tech on their web-site

Detroit Speed -  lots of pro touring chassis parts in their online catalog for many applications - nine pages of photos on one of their projects here http://www.detroitspeed.com/Projects/craig-hardee-1969-camaro/craig-hardee-1969-camaro-pg-1.html - plus installation and tech videos

 

 

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

If I wanted to PS a '69 Camaro, I'd look into using the "back half" of the chassis from the AMT '66 Nova. Should be about the right size. 

Or, possibly, use the whole Nova chassis and graft in the Camaro (front) subframe. I'm thinking of doing exactly this to build a PS '66 Nova with a big block in it. (And now Ace will tell us why neither idea would work in real life. )

 I have no problem with "back halfing" on the Camaro. On the real car, it's not that terribly hard to cut a big gaping hole in the center of the rear of the car and re-frame the structure with rectangular tubing...and swapping in the tubbed Nova rear chassis on a model would fairly closely approximate the finished look. But remember to measure many times, cut once...just like doing it for real.

Swapping an entire Nova chassis into a Camaro (in real life) is another thing entirely. Being a unibody, the rockers, floors, trans tunnel, rear quarters and firewall are all part of the "frame" and contribute a significant (like all of it) part of the structure to these cars. Cut the "frame" out, and you have a floppy mess trying to go every-which-way, and nothing lines up with anything else when you try to mate the "frame" to the body. It takes a huge amount of very highly skilled fabrication to swap a body from one unibody car to another. Is it possible? Yes. But a practical solution? No.

On the other hand, saying you're going to hang a replica fiberglass Camaro body on a C5 or C6 frame (or something full-frame aftermarket like what Art Morrison builds) is well within the realm of real-world feasibility. It's not a job for the vast majority of builders, but it's easier than trying to restore structural integrity and correct panel fit to a cobbled-up unibody

The most likely way somebody would build a real serious pro-touring Camaro would be a combination of "back-halfing" and a bolt-in front subframe with all trick suspension, again from Morrison.

 

Edited November 3, 2017 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

The subframe shown above also just happens to fit '68-'74 Novas too.

This is the Morrison "back half" that uses coil springs and a Ford 9" axle housing. "3-link", with a Watts link

Same idea, but a triangulated 4-bar setup...

And a further refinement, the ultimate independent setup...

[Ace-Garageguy]

I wish I had a scale '69 Camaro here to look at, 'cause this is an interesting problem and has captured my interest. I suspect the front subframe under the model could be cleaned up to represent an aftermarket unit by removing all the stock suspension, filing the rails nice and smooth, and installing the front suspension arms and spindles from something like the AMT Phantom Vickie.

Then back-half it with the section from the Nova, as Snake suggested.  

 

 

 

[astroracer]

http://www.schwartzperformance.com/1970-1981-f-body-camaro-firebird-chassis-full-frame/http://www.schwartzperformance.com/1970-1981-f-body-camaro-firebird-chassis-full-frame/

 

http://roadstershop.com/product/full-chassis/1967-69-camaro-spec-chassis/http://roadstershop.com/product/full-chassis/1967-69-camaro-spec-chassis/

There are a number of suppliers building full frames for the F-bodies. You can build whatever you need by studying the real 1:1 photos and making your frame and suspension look the part. They don't have to be exact but getting the parts to look correct in scale is important.

Mark

Edited November 3, 2017 by astroracer

[Steven Zimmerman]

Race Motor Replicas casts a 67 / 8 / 9   ' Pro Street Chassis, replaces the stock underbody front to back.....'Z'

[Snake45]

DOH!

I just realized the OP is asking about pro TOURING chassis, and I gave a pro STREET answer. Two different animals entirely!

Disregard my previous post and listen to someone else. 

[Steven Zimmerman]

DOH!

I just realized the OP is asking about pro TOURING chassis, and I gave a pro STREET answer. Two different animals entirely!

Disregard my previous post and listen to someone else. 

mmmm. So did I.   The stock underbody can be modified without too much work to accept a wider wheel / tire combo, and the front suspension is fairly simple and can be lowered easily Only oher solution involves a lot of work (beentheredonethat )

[Jantrix]

Actually, because the Corvette is still a full-frame car, you could swap a '69 Camaro body on to it in the real-world.

Lotsa work in 1:1, but entirely doable...and a lot easier on a model than modifying the stock Camaro chassis to take all the Corvette mechanicals.

Late model Corvette kits (C5, C6) can be found pretty cheap too.

This would be my recommendation. Also recommend adding a stock car chassis. It takes some work to get them to work with the kits interior, but it looks great because the low racing style stance is set.

[Ace-Garageguy]

This is a "full frame" chassis for the GEN II Camaro...basically a bolt-in front subframe (that replaces the factory subframe) with a bolt-in rear subframe that essentially doubles the rear hat-section frame rails that are integral with the stock unibody, both ends held together by integral "frame connectors" that clear the underside of the unibody floor.

The Roadster Shop at the link provided by astroracer (pix are copy-protected) makes something similar for the GEN I Camaro. 

http://roadstershop.com/product/full-chassis/1967-69-camaro-spec-chassis/

Edited November 3, 2017 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

What it really comes down to in the end is: how much do you care if your model could be easily done in the real world? A very cool model can be made in several different ways, just as a real car can.

I built a "Beyond-Pro-Touring" Chevelle several years back, on a stretched C5-R frame, but using the Chevelle unibody floor to tie it all together (though the stock '70 Chevelle uses a full-frame, it depends heavily on the welded body structure to provide rigidity; though just the floor wouldn't provide much, the contest rules this was built for specified a minimum percentage of original kit content. so I had to use a big chunk of the Chevelle to qualify). What this represents is a road-racing car with what looks like a Chevelle body, and even this could be done in the real world.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Ace-Garageguy

[kmc3420]

Would this one fit the bill?

1/25 Camaro Pro street

Edited November 3, 2017 by kmc3420

[1930fordpickup]

What about starting with this kit https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=IuNSBk89&id=9E7886AD6E13CF36F01EAEF132049EFB5C684EEA&thid=OIP.IuNSBk891smFrrdPYcv5UwEsDW&q=24+hour+corvette+in+1%2f25+scale+revell&simid=608031340790090900&selectedIndex=12&ajaxhist=0

[Ace-Garageguy]

What about starting with this kit https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=IuNSBk89&id=9E7886AD6E13CF36F01EAEF132049EFB5C684EEA&thid=OIP.IuNSBk891smFrrdPYcv5UwEsDW&q=24+hour+corvette+in+1%2f25+scale+revell&simid=608031340790090900&selectedIndex=12&ajaxhist=0

That's exactly what I used for the orange '70 Chevelle above. 

[KWT]

What it really comes down to in the end is: how much do you care if your model could be easily done in the real world? A very cool model can be made in several different ways, just as a real car can.

I don't care if it can easily be done... Or if it makes since at all as long as it looks good lol... I may have bit off more than I can chew.

 

I do appreciate all the expertise being provided. You guys rock. If anyone else wants to chime in please do... 

Edited November 5, 2017 by KWT

[KWT]

Would this one fit the bill?

1/25 Camaro Pro street

This would be great if that's what it looked like when it came in...

Edited November 5, 2017 by KWT

[kmc3420]

This would be great if that's what it looked like when it came in... It does not lol

I take it you have been down this road? I was tempted to purchase that but thanks for the heads  up. 

[Tim H]

I am building a replica of Year One's BRE Trans Am. some consider it a super car. Pro-Touring at it's best. custom chassis, custom suspension, custom body work the whole nine yards.

Tim

Edited November 11, 2017 by Tim H