AMT 1969 Corvair engine

[unclescott58]

12 hours ago, tim boyd said:

Mark is correct on this one.  AMT faced severe financial difficulties around 1970, and struggled for several years until the Semi-Truck kits rescued them for a while.   Then they were hit with the rising cost of plastic (due to the Arab oil embargo) and increased labor costs (the UAW represented the work force at the Troy, Michigan factory).   All these factors, plus a new, very business oriented President, weighed on the decisions to simplify many of the kits as Mark describes.  This was also the period in which many of the old Trophy Series kits were revised to eliminate many of the extra building parts and versions.  In more recent years, starting with the early AMT-Ertl years, and picking up with the Round 2 era, some of these simplification actions have been reversed.   TIM     

No offense to others here. But, Mr. Boyd's reputation with me at least, is such, that I'm willing to go with it. And eat a little crow on this one. Spending money retooling a kit to save money doesn't make much sense to me. But then again, I have no real knowledge of how to successfully to run a business. This is why I work mainly in the public sector. And am a peon in my part time private sector job. 

Edited February 2, 2018 by unclescott58

[Tom Geiger]

3 hours ago, unclescott58 said:

No offense to others here. But, Mr. Boyd's reputation with me at least, is such, that I'm willing to go with it. And eat a little crow on this one. Spending money retooling a kit to save money doesn't make much sense to me. But then again, I have no real knowledge of how to successfully to run a business. This is why I work mainly in the public sector. And am a peon in my part time private sector job. 

and I'd accept Mark's word as gospel.  He's a walking encyclopedia of ancient modeling lore!  

[GerN]

I've built the GT buggy engine and I hope no one has followed my example of truing the mating surfaces:  the gaps caused by the non-flat surfaces are needed for the fan shroud to fit properly.  The push rod tubes on the bottom of the Corvair engine are incorrectly parallel (should come together where they join the block) on the AMT and nonexistent on the other two versions.

[unclescott58]

7 hours ago, Tom Geiger said:

and I'd accept Mark's word as gospel.  He's a walking encyclopedia of ancient modeling lore!  

Yes it is. And yes he is. 

[dimaxion]

On 1/27/2018 at 5:58 PM, MrObsessive said:

Curious that the Parts Pack engine kit which has the Corvair parts doesn't have the fan shroud. That to me is a very conspicuous part as that covers pretty much the top of the engine.

Interesting info about the fit troubles.........I'll keep that in mind if I ever get around to building a Corvair.

Yes , I agree with you Bill . Without the shroud Engine would not have cooling Air period . Included in the Parts Pac all is not lost . At least you get the Turbocharger parts .  I plunked these in my '65 & '66 MY Factory Stock Corvair builds .  Thanx .. 

[tim boyd]

13 hours ago, dimaxion said:

Yes , I agree with you Bill . Without the shroud Engine would not have cooling Air period . Included in the Parts Pac all is not lost . At least you get the Turbocharger parts .  I plunked these in my '65 & '66 MY Factory Stock Corvair builds .  Thanx .. 

Ooopppsss...back to the drawing board with this model.....nah....once they're done, they're done, flaws and all.....TIM

[tim boyd]

At least it looks like I got this one (more or less) correct......this  of course is the AMT 1969 Corvair engine.....TIM 

Edited February 3, 2018 by tim boyd

[unclescott58]

5 hours ago, tim boyd said:

Ooopppsss...back to the drawing board with this model.....nah....once they're done, they're done, flaws and all.....TIM

What's wrong on your model above? It looks great to me. Including the Corvair engine. 

[Bob Ellis]

I used the parts pack covair turbo unchromed and mated it to kit transmission. Had to replace the generator for an alternator. Except fo a lot of hanging parts it fit well.

[ChrisBcritter]

Does the Revell Roth Road Agent kit have a good fan shroud on its Corvair engine?

[MrObsessive]

On 2/2/2018 at 4:52 PM, dimaxion said:

Yes , I agree with you Bill . Without the shroud Engine would not have cooling Air period . Included in the Parts Pac all is not lost . At least you get the Turbocharger parts .  I plunked these in my '65 & '66 MY Factory Stock Corvair builds .  Thanx .. 

I got another Parts Pack kit recently as I have an old resin of the '64 Corvair, and I'd like to turn that into a convertible Spyder with those turbo parts sometime. Yeah, a lot of cutting as it's a curbside, but Corvair models deserve to have all of that neat engine exposed for enthusiasts like us to see.

[dimaxion]

6 hours ago, MrObsessive said:

I got another Parts Pack kit recently as I have an old resin of the '64 Corvair, and I'd like to turn that into a convertible Spyder with those turbo parts sometime. Yeah, a lot of cutting as it's a curbside, but Corvair models deserve to have all of that neat engine exposed for enthusiasts like us to see.

Go for it Bill . I am not a fan of Corvairs as all the experiences I had were all BAD .. lol .. I just know every inch and Oil Leak Location  . Many Busted Knuckles is all I am saying . I would like to see the '64 164 hp , 164 (?) cid in a build . I did in a couple of 1:1's I repaired .  Remember , the spare lived (mounted to hover) over the right side of the Engine  Thanx .. 

[1930fordpickup]

On 2/3/2018 at 12:03 PM, unclescott58 said:

What's wrong on your model above? It looks great to me. Including the Corvair engine. 

No fan shroud to pull air around the engine to cool it. I would have done the same thing if I ever got around to doing my corvair powered buggy. 

[unclescott58]

6 hours ago, 1930fordpickup said:

No fan shroud to pull air around the engine to cool it. I would have done the same thing if I ever got around to doing my corvair powered buggy. 

I guess not. Still looks pretty good. 

[Jon Cole]

Engine shroud also accompanied by surround seal, thus insulating the engine compartment from below. The fan would suck in cooling air, and direct it downward over the engine.
Having owned a few, referencing was as easy as going out and opening the lid. 
White parts are scratch built.
Man, I wish I had my 1:1 'vairs back!
Old build photos not too great. Sorry 'bout that.

[Jon Cole]

On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 3:46 PM, dimaxion said:

...Remember , the spare lived (mounted to hover) over the right side of the Engine  Thanx .. 

I used a wheel/tire from an ERTL die cast truck bank. Not much room in that engine bay.

[Ace-Garageguy]

5 minutes ago, Jon Cole said:

Engine shroud also accompanied by surround seal, thus insulating the engine compartment from below. The fan would suck in cooling air, and direct it downward over the engine.
 

Nice work on that, and very good points.

I've seen more than a few Corvairs, VWs and Porsches killed because the seals weren't maintained.

A hot climate and stop-and-go driving is murder on the things

[unclescott58]

5 hours ago, Jon Cole said:

Engine shroud also accompanied by surround seal, thus insulating the engine compartment from below. The fan would suck in cooling air, and direct it downward over the engine.
Having owned a few, referencing was as easy as going out and opening the lid. 
White parts are scratch built.
Man, I wish I had my 1:1 'vairs back!
Old build photos not too great. Sorry 'bout that.

Is the seal needed in vehicles like Dune Buggys, where they'd be of little use? Do these engines run hot under those applications? And do the Volkswagen engines run hot under similar circumstances for the same reasons? 

[ToyLvr]

On 2/5/2018 at 9:09 PM, Jon Cole said:

I used a wheel/tire from an ERTL die cast truck bank. Not much room in that engine bay.

Jon - if you think that's crowded, you should see the engine compartment in my '65 Corvair with factory air conditioning?

As an alternate engine source, yes, the Revell "Road Agent" is Corvair powered. The engine is so-so. Corvair engine also available in the "T-Bone Stake" kit, too.

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 2/6/2018 at 2:38 AM, unclescott58 said:

Is the seal needed in vehicles like Dune Buggys, where they'd be of little use? Do these engines run hot under those applications? And do the Volkswagen engines run hot under similar circumstances for the same reasons? 

As you suspect, the perimeter seals on anything air-cooled would do nothing on a car that has an exposed engine.

On buggies, the heated cooling air tends to blow away, but sitting and idling on a windless day can be a problem.

On my 550 Spyder replica (hot-rod VW powered), the engine bay is wide open, but covered by the rear bodywork. There are no seals (the original was primarily a racing car, and at speed, heated cooling air would leave under the car and out the vents on the rear deck) and stop-go traffic or idling will see the head temps skyrocket as pre-heated air is recycled over the engine.

[tim boyd]

3 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

As you suspect, the perimeter seals on anything air-cooled would do nothing on a car that has an exposed engine.

On buggies, the heated cooling air tends to blow away, but sitting and idling on a windless day can be a problem.

On my 550 Spyder replica (hot-rod VW powered), the engine bay is wide open, but covered by the rear bodywork. There are no seals (the original was primarily a racing car, and at speed, heated cooling air would leave under the car and out the vents on the rear deck) and stop-go traffic or idling will see the head temps skyrocket as pre-heated air is recycled over the engine.

Thanks for clarifying, Bill.  Now I can put that Manx buggy back on the shelf with pride....well not really pride, but a sense of restored authenticity. And thanks Scott for asking the question...I wondered about that myself.  TIM 

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, tim boyd said:

Thanks for clarifying, Bill.  Now I can put that Manx buggy back on the shelf with pride....well not really pride, but a sense of restored authenticity. And thanks Scott for asking the question...I wondered about that myself.  TIM 

Air-cooled engines still need the fan shrouds to direct cooling air over the heads and cylinders. The perimeter seals that normally seal the shrouds to the engine bay are a separate issue, and can be dispensed with on a buggy.

It appears your buggy has no fan shroud, and the heads and cylinders would cook quite soon. Just moving down the road is not enough to cool it, and without the shroud and other cooling "tin", the fan just blows air out the sides, NOT over the heads and cylinders.

I always cringe when I see some guy letting his Harley sit idling on a hot day too. I can almost hear the engine screaming in agony.

[Casey]

On 1/30/2018 at 5:07 PM, Mark said:

I compared the actual parts.  They're different.  In the mid-Seventies, AMT went on some cost-cutting mission.  Part of it included eliminating clear red taillights and cutting down clear parts trees in a number of kits.  They didn't just eliminate parts, they made the associated trees smaller, probably so more of them could be mounted to a base and run at one time.  Probably to eliminate a couple of positions in the production area and save money. 

Here's a good example of what Mark mentioned above, showing both mid '90s (left) and early '80s issue (right) clear parts from the AMT '41 Plymouth kits. While not as drastic as the Corvair example, the below shows how space was consolidated and the ejector pin locations changed, even though the parts count remained the same:

[Casey]

On 1/30/2018 at 5:07 PM, Mark said:

The Corvair lost its side glass, as well as a number of very nicely done custom headlamp and fog light lenses.

Here are the transparent parts Mark mentioned, from the AMT '67 Corvair Monza kit:

[Mark]

On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 9:51 PM, RichCostello said:

I have a 69 Corvair kit that looks to be pretty old(small, narrow box). It has the clear fan shroud, but no side windows or headlight lens, and the one and only chrome engine part is the fan. It's a custom version with just the mags and a spoiler molded onto the back. Kit # T159, anyone know when this was made?

That's a mid-Seventies kit, the "budget series" that I described earlier.  It's the first one without the side glass, fog lamp lenses, and other clear parts.  A number of other optional parts were eliminated also, and a bunch of engine parts that were plated in other issues are not in that one.  Those kits came in narrower boxes, like the ones some of the Trophy Series kits came in in the Sixties.  AMT issued a number of kits in that series: the Opel GT (stock only), the '40 Willys (individual coupe and pickup kits as opposed to both versions in one box), a few of the altered-wheelbase funny cars (with "street" parts like radiators, passenger seats, and side pipes added) and the Watson Indy roadster and Ford/Lotus Indy car.  The '32 Ford roadster was issued in this series also.