What happened to automotive "journalism", rant ahead

[Aaronw]

I get pretty annoyed reading car stuff from the alleged car experts. It seems like they compare every car they review against high performance cars most of us will never own or even have the chance to drive. They seem to evaluate all the same whether a super car, a sports sedan or toddler toter.   

 

Most recent example being, we are shopping for a car for my wife as her car of 17 years is done, literally falling to pieces. It just makes no sense to keep throwing money at it. She looked at a Dodge Journey, a mini-van kind of thing and likes it. I'm not familiar with these so I get online to get more info. First thing I find is complaints about its "stale" styling because OMG they haven't made a significant cosmetic update to it since 2011 (um, it is a mini van guys...)

When did "car guys" turn into women's fashion reporters. The Porsche 911 is an icon, and it changed little over 25 years I've never heard it called stale. But hey I drive a Volvo 240 a car that took its styling cues from a refrigerator box and made few changes over a 19 year production run so maybe I'm off base here. Maybe like women's shoes cars do need updates every 30 minutes (I have nothing to wear  ). 

 

Ok, styling is subjective, next they describe it as grossly underpowered with the standard "weak" 4 cyl. I do take some exception to that. The standard engine is a 173 hp 2.4 liter inline 4. 173 hp, from a 4 cyl engine, that is only 12 hp less than a 1977 Transam with a 6.6 liter V8. The two cars have a similar curb weight, so this "gutless" wonder has a similar power to weight as the Bandit's ride....    I think some perspective is due here guys.    

 

I grew up in a family that owned VWs and Toyotas. I learned to drive in a 1976 VW Rabbit with a raging 74hp, so my first car, a Toyota Tercel with its rip snorting 89 hp was like a rocket ship. I've already mentioned my daily driver is a Volvo 240, 114hp pushing 2800lbs, somehow I still  manage to get to work on time.

 

I'm not here to defend a mini-van against the mean spirited alleged "gear heads" but I do wonder what value they think they are providing when is seems they can't figure out that maybe it is not appropriate to judge a $20,000 MINI-VAN against the $65,000 Dodge Hellcat they drove last week. I'd also like to see them put a car seat in and out of the back seat of that Hellcat...   

My wife has been driving a Suzuki Sidekick since 2000, so this thing was like driving a Corvette in her mind. 

 

Perhaps instead of thinking in 0-60 times they should evaluate practical cars on boring things like service records, ease of putting kids in the back, safety, fuel economy, cost to own. Many do at least pay some lip service to these things, but they tend to be an afterthought and often downright dismissive about their importance. Many also don't seem to recognize that yes there is indeed a difference for more than a few people between spending $19,000 and $29,000 or more on a car.

 

This is not based on just one article, it seems to be the state of automotive writing in general.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Aaronw

[stitchdup]

I tend to read the custom/modified magazines more and get annoyed when they gush about a car and how great it is at a show, then completely fail to have a picture of that car.

[Aaronw]

2 minutes ago, stitchdup said:

I tend to read the custom/modified magazines more and get annoyed when they gush about a car and how great it is at a show, then completely fail to have a picture of that car.

Yeah having photos in a custom car magazine does seem kind of important. Its not like a stock car that you could quickly google up a photo of.

[Joe Handley]

Chrysler products tend to get trashed by many, my 200 as well. I wasn't too concerned about the older vehicle or Sebring hate that followed the car due to Daimler's budget constrictions when the platforms were originally developed and rental companies buying the absolute cheapest versions they can and then renting them to people who drive them like they're playing GTA. If I were going to look at a Journey, I'd look at the V-6/6-Speed Auto models, with AWD if possible. The V-6/6 Speed is the same as my 200 and what all of the Pre-Pacifica minivans got from '11-'17 and the big Pro-Master van still uses. I wouldn't mind finding another low option 200 or comparable Avenger and put the Journey R/T AWD system under one, just to do it.

[tbill]

Ya, it gets kinda silly after awhile. My advice, find someone you know, or a friend of a friend that has worked in a new car dealership as a tech for awhile, they will know what’s problematic and what’s not. Sure, every car has its issues, but there are usually a few in ‘the line up’ that have fewer issues than the others. I wrench in a Chevy store, so I see what has issues and what doesn’t , personally, I have a Silverado and an equinox, I chose what I chose from seeing issues day to day on our product line.

[iamsuperdan]

As a side note, the Journey is actually a solid option. They're reliable, fuel efficient, and reasonably priced. We move a ton of these at work. The Journey RT AWD can be had for under $30k CDN, and that gives you almost 300hp of V6 engine, navigation, 19" wheels, push button start with remote start, heated leather, heated steering wheel, and rear dvd. Not the most exciting vehicle on the planet, but then, it's not supposed to be.As a family hauler, it's just about perfect.

I gave up on automotive journalists years ago. They judge sports cars by the number of cupholders and amount of cargo space, then deride small family cars for not handling like a Porsche.

[mikemodeler]

I base car buying decisions on what I feel during a test drive and what a couple of my auto shop owning friends have to say. Despite being in the auto parts business for 30+ years, I like to ask around as I am certain I don't know it all. Just because some parts for some vehicles sell well does not always translate into it being a problem car, could be a ton of them on the road. I visit repair shops and talk to shop owners and techs as part of my job and I usually hear the good, the bad and the ugly about vehicles!

 

[espo]

You are 100% correct about most of the self important so called Auto Journalist. It would be interesting to see what is actually in their garages that they bought with their own money. I was in the retail auto business for over 30 years and have been working on cars since before I could get a license, that still doesn't make me an expert. #1 Does your wife like this or any other vehicle for what ever her particular wants and needs are ? Everyone of us have different expectations from your automobiles. Sounds as though you keep a car until it drops, smart move, your dealer must hate you. For me a car would have to be at the top or very near the top of the horsepower that the manufacture offers. Sounds as thought you are comfortable with something a little more practical. You should buy what you want and not what they want to sell you. I personally would not be happy in a Dodge Journey but I feel it would be a perfectly fine car based on what your needs are. Have them loan you one over night and drive your normal daily routs . How does your wife feel in it, sight lines, stopping and turning. Getting on and off the freeway. How does it fit her, is her driving position comfortable and the controls easy to reach. Drive the 4 cylinder you lean toward but also drive the 6 just to see what its like.  I have lived most of my life in California and unless you go to Tahoe in the winter AWD will be a needless expense. The Journey has front wheel drive and that should work well for her even in the rain. Just remember to rotate your tires often since front wheel drive vehicles will wear the front tires much quicker than a rear wheel drive but it sounds like you have had front wheel drive cars before and this is something you are already familiar with. We got my wife a new '14 Dodge Avenger RT and she couldn't be happier. It is hard for me to bend around to get in and out so I drive our '10 Charger RT with AWD. Now that's my a car that is fun not matter what the weather is. I only mention this to illustrate that everyone has different wants and needs.  Just get what it is you want and need and the Dodge Journey might just be a very wise purchase.    

[StevenGuthmiller]

You don't want an under powered car, believe me!

I bought a Mazda truck in '94 with the 3 liter V-6 & while the truck in general was a dependable & well built vehicle, the engine was as gutless as they come.

I couldn't use the cruise control on the highway at 65 mph with a 20 mph head wind.

The cruise would keep shutting down because the truck could not maintain speed!

Just one of many very irritating issues with an under powered vehicle.

I really don't understand why a vehicle should be considered under powered these days.

The technology to build a powerful engine without all of the turbos, super chargers, etc, exists.

It may not be a fair comparison to a Dodge mini van, but the Honda S-2000 that I own has a naturally aspirated 2.2 liter 4 banger that pumps out 240 horse power!

 

Steve

[Joe Handley]

2 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

You don't want an under powered car, believe me!

I bought a Mazda truck in '94 with the 3 liter V-6 & while the truck in general was a dependable & well built vehicle, the engine was as gutless as they come.

I couldn't use the cruise control on the highway at 65 mph with a 20 mph head wind.

The cruise would keep shutting down because the truck could not maintain speed!

Just one of many very irritating issues with an under powered vehicle.

I really don't understand why a vehicle should be considered under powered these days.

The technology to build a powerful engine without all of the turbos, super chargers, etc, exists.

It may not be a fair comparison to a Dodge mini van, but the Honda S-2000 that I own has a naturally aspirated 2.2 liter 4 banger that pumps out 240 horse power!

 

Steve

That's why I suggested the 3.6l/6 speed if in the budget 283hp should be more than enough power to get the job done, especially when backed by an AWD system to help push it through the head or cross wind. Not sure what the Journey weights, but the Caravan/T&C with that combo and fwd only weighs around 4600-4800 lbs and supposedly those move out pretty good, while my 200 only weighs 3600lbs and on the factory E85 tune with wider and stickier than stock tires, it'll straight up boogie!

[Ace-Garageguy]

19 hours ago, Aaronw said:

...When did "car guys" turn into women's fashion reporters ?... 

It's all part of the guys-turning-into-women thing, the 50%-less-testosterone generation (which is real...look it up).

And technical ignorance need not stand in the way of a technical-writing career. Being an automotive journalist doesn't seem to require any actual in-depth knowledge of mechanics or operation anymore, just as much of the rest of "journalism" is devoid of anyone who actually knows what they're talking about.

The first glaring instance I recall in a car-mag was an article that referred to the suspension layout on the then-new Z32 Nissan 300ZX as "multiple rods and levers".

Really? 

Since then, I've noticed a spiraling trend towards gushing praise (in order to make the advertisers happy, one supposes) and less and less hard information. Even most of the hot-rod oriented how-to articles read more like sound bites than anything really useful.

I miss the days when mags like Sports Car Graphic had world-class engineers like Paul van Valkenburg on staff, Hot Rod had Tex Smith, and Car & Driver would label a car as a steaming pile if the appellation was deserved.

I know, I know...just another old-man ranting about how much better things were when car-guys and gearheads actually had had grease under their nails at some time in their lives...

 

Edited January 29, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[oldscool]

A warning about the 2.4/4speed auto drive train. Almost all of these transmissions BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH out between 80 and 100K miles. I have a 2013 Avenger which I love and it happened to me and everyone else I have talked to who own one. Same thing with the minivans equipped with this trans. I work for a national auto parts chain so I get to question a lot of people about the vehicles that they drive.

Not able to say which chain I work for as they are very sensitive about being mentioned by employees on the internet.

[Aaronw]

Those of you with first hand experience with Dodge thank you for sharing your experiences. I got my drivers license in the mid 1980s and the craptastical products the US auto industry turned out in the mid 70s through the early 80s were prime fodder for new drivers at that time and has forever tainted my car buying tastes. The US has always done pretty well with big cars and full size trucks, but lagged pretty badly on smaller cars until the 90s. The fact I'm even considering a smaller car from the big three is only because I know they have improved considerably, so the reassurance is nice. 

Gerald, I have seen some vague information that the 4 cyl may not have the best reliability. Again that feeds right into my gripe, if you report on cars the fact the motor / transmission typically grenades before 100,000 miles is a lot more important than, it won't win any trophies on the quarter mile. Instead they just make some vague references to JD Power reports (rates about a 3 on a scale of 1-5) and we had another post here recently discussing the relative usefulness of those reports. It looks like the fuel economy between the 4 and 6 is minimal 19/25 vs 17/24 so one more point in favor of going that way.

We are still looking at others, but based on those we have looked at this one is high on her list. At least it has a center mounted shifter, I can't stand the new trend of putting a little knob on the dash.

 

Most of this stuff is just infotainment, a witty jibe at a car is apparently more important than actually discussing the substance of a car that might help someone buy a car that meets their needs. It is amazing to me how lightly car buying is taken by many considering the prices these days.   

[oldscool]

36 minutes ago, Aaronw said:

Gerald, I have seen some vague information that the 4 cyl may not have the best reliability

The 2.4 engine is fine, it's the transmissions that are a problem.

[Tom Geiger]

I'm not so worried about automotive journalism,  my big worry is political journalism!   When I went to school for journalism they beat it into us that journalists were impartial observers who reported the truth without bias, personal view or embellishment.  That seems to have gone by the wayside!   

Edited February 1, 2018 by Tom Geiger

[High octane]

3 hours ago, Tom Geiger said:

I'm not so worried about automotive journalism,  my big worry is political journalism!   When I went to school for journalism they beat it into us that journalists were impartial observers who reported the truth without bias, personal view or embellishment.  That seems to have gone by the wayside!   

Yes it went by the wayside a long time ago.

[espo]

On the matter of Automotive Journalism, I was reading the latest issues of Car & Driver and Motor Trend. First I personally have a hard time relating to cars that cost more than my home, and my home is considered to be worth more than the national average by quite a bit. Why car we comparing mid-sized family sedans and speaking about them in terms usually used  if they are "track day'" cars ??  

[Ace-Garageguy]

4 minutes ago, espo said:

... Why car we comparing mid-sized family sedans and speaking about them in terms usually used  if they are "track day'" cars ??  

Just another one of the indicators that "stupid is the new smart".

[1930fordpickup]

30 minutes ago, espo said:

On the matter of Automotive Journalism, I was reading the latest issues of Car & Driver and Motor Trend. First I personally have a hard time relating to cars that cost more than my home, and my home is considered to be worth more than the national average by quite a bit. Why car we comparing mid-sized family sedans and speaking about them in terms usually used  if they are "track day'" cars ??  

Several years ago my uncle was telling us why he dropped his subscription to these  magazines. He was talking about how they were complaining the Lincoln Town Car had to soft of a ride. He is a Chevy fan but he was so dumbfounded that a car magazine Journalist had no idea that a Town Car  was not a sports car. We all got a good chuckle about it. 

The biggest no no in journalism I learned in high school working on the yearbook. You never place a photo across the fold in a book or magazine because it will be distorted by the fold. Yet time and time again every car magazine I read does it almost every month.  So what do they teach in college? 

[1930fordpickup]

On 1/28/2018 at 5:20 PM, Aaronw said:

When did "car guys" turn into women's fashion reporters. The Porsche 911 is an icon, and it changed little over 25 years I've never heard it called stale.

So I am not the only one that wonder about this also.  Funny how when a rusty example turns up on car auction sites people get all crazy about them. New one old one they look the same to me, just like the Model T and the Beetle.  None of the above are bad cars just  always had the same look. 

[High octane]

16 minutes ago, 1930fordpickup said:

Several years ago my uncle was telling us why he dropped his subscription to these  magazines. He was talking about how they were complaining the Lincoln Town Car had to soft of a ride. He is a Chevy fan but he was so dumbfounded that a car magazine Journalist had no idea that a Town Car  was not a sports car. We all got a good chuckle about it. 

The biggest no no in journalism I learned in high school working on the yearbook. You never place a photo across the fold in a book or magazine because it will be distorted by the fold. Yet time and time again every car magazine I read does it almost every month.  So what do they teach in college? 

For years in the 60's the centerfold was a given for car photos as many guys pulled them out and hung them on their walls. Even Playboy Magazine had centerfold photos also.

[1930fordpickup]

4 minutes ago, High octane said:

For years in the 60's the centerfold was a given for car photos as many guys pulled them out and hung them on their walls. Even Playboy Magazine had centerfold photos also.

You are correct but these are pull outs in the center of the magazine. No other place in a magazine works. Yes I know about centerfolds I had them in my locker at school until a teacher has a good look. Mostly because it was not locked and other kids kept opening it up. LOL 

[Ace-Garageguy]

21 minutes ago, 1930fordpickup said:

So I am not the only one that wonder about this also.  Funny how when a rusty example turns up on car auction sites people get all crazy about them. New one old one they look the same to me, just like the Model T and the Beetle.  None of the above are bad cars just  always had the same look. 

Much as I love old Porsches, I've never understood the idiot hysteriia surrounding some of them. I bought my first one, a '58 356 A coupe, for $600. A mostly solid car with a history of neglect and bodged repairs, it wasn't much more than a hot-rod Beetle, but I loved it (having graduated from hot-rod Beetles). The 911 I currently own I bought for $3500. Again, a basically solid car with a history of being owned and worked on by morons. The fact that its value has appreciated by a factor of 4 over the few years I've owned it surprises me, frankly.

I've never seen cars as "investments" or "icons", but rather as mechanical friends that I enjoy going out to play with, and I don't have much use for people who wet their pants over anything.

But in a wussified world where fewer than one-in-five folks can even drive a stick, the style of automotive "journalism" prevalent today is hardly surprising.

[Tom Geiger]

 

6 hours ago, espo said:

 First I personally have a hard time relating to cars that cost more than my home, and my home is considered to be worth more than the national average by quite a bit. 

Agreed.  I cannot understand the average blue collar Joe $50k earner who lives and breathes million dollar super cars. You know, the guy who builds all those models of cars he's never even sat in?  

I recently clicked on one of those "Cars of the Stars" photo thingies on FaceBook and every third photo was of  a million dollar Bugatti Veyron was owned by someone like Simon Cowell, to a bunch of actors, sports stars and rap singers.  The car has become a belly button if you run in that league. I don't see the prestige in that.

A few years ago I was talking to a Rolls / Bentley salesman who told me the era of conspicuous consumption was over. High end car sales are down. The few they sell are no longer leased to corporations but sold for cash to wealthy people who do not drive them every day.  The average CEO is more likely to drive a Ford Explorer to work, and drive the Rolls convertible to the country club on Saturday.  Overall many wealthy people do not want to draw attention to themselves in today's environment out of fear of being targeted by thieves or kidnappers.  On the list of "Cars of the Stars" were a few who were grounded to earth. There were a few who drove regular cars like Ford Explorers, including one tall basketball star who had his modified so his seat was in the backseat to accommodate him.  And Oprah, for all her wealth, drives a VW Beetle!

The book "The Millionaire Next Store" is a good read. The title is because the researchers discovered that the average American  self made millionaire is more likely to live in an average neighborhood and drive average cars, still retaining their frugal middle class values.  Many purchased luxury cars a few years old to avoid the initial depreciation.  

And yes, I also have a very nice house. And I buy my cars used for cash.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by Tom Geiger

[espo]

7 hours ago, High octane said:

For years in the 60's the centerfold was a given for car photos as many guys pulled them out and hung them on their walls. Even Playboy Magazine had centerfold photos also.

Ya it wasn't until I got married that I realized girls didn't have staples in their belly button.