" Foil Transfer " : What am I doing Wrong ?

[1972coronet]

For more than 30 years , I've been reading about and seeing results of aluminium foil ( Reynolds Wrap , et al. ) emblem transfers , and I'm yet to have any success in making my own ! 

What am I doing wrong ?

I make the impression , fill its backside with epoxy ( mixed "hot" and  "cold" --- doesn't seem to matter ) , and wait ... 

... and end up with trash !

What's the secret ? Is there a specific epoxy ? Super Glue ? 

[BigTallDad]

A couple of pictures would be helpful.

[peteski]

You need to give a bit more detailed description of what you end up with. "Trash" is not helpful. 

What is "hot or cold"?

Epoxy doesn't set?

Too thick of a layer?

Need more info . . .

[1972coronet]

"Hot" and "Cold" refer to the amount of catalyst added to the base ; either more-than-recommended (hot) or less-than-recommended (cold) . Those are usually performed after the recommended ratio doesn't work ; that segues to the next answer : no , the epoxy doesn't want to set .  I put just enough epoxy into the backside of the impression to fill it without overfilling (e.g. , I dip a toothpick into the mix and let the epoxy flow-into the depression . Doesn't take much to fill those 25th scale Duster impressions ) . 

What I always end up with is something destined for the trash . 

No , I haven't any accompanying photos .

[BigTallDad]

How old is your epoxy? That stuff does have a shelf life.

Here's how I do it:

• Make the aluminum foil at least twice the size of the emblem
• I use a soft eraser to press the foil into those tiny crevices
• Carefully remove the foil
• I mix the epoxy 1:1 then over-fill, to get a slight meniscus dome
• After the epoxy has cured, I sand the back side and trim the edges of the foil

[NOBLNG]

2 hours ago, BigTallDad said:

How old is your epoxy? That stuff does have a shelf life.

Here's how I do it:

• Make the aluminum foil at least twice the size of the emblem
• I use a soft eraser to press the foil into those tiny crevices
• Carefully remove the foil
• I mix the epoxy 1:1 then over-fill, to get a slight meniscus dome
• After the epoxy has cured, I sand the back side and trim the edges of the foil

So you guys are making emblems that you can glue on after the paint job correct? I have never tried this yet.

[BigTallDad]

52 minutes ago, NOBLNG said:

So you guys are making emblems that you can glue on after the paint job correct? I have never tried this yet.

Yes. I built an SVO that had a very good rear emblem, but the front was very faint. By copying the rear emblem via the method described, I was able to create a new front emblem (obviously the old emblem was sanded off). Just remember to place the shiny side of the foil on the outside.

[SfanGoch]

If you're using a a two-part epoxy in a dual applicator, you might not be dispensing an even ratio of resin and hardener if you're trying to mix a small amount at a time. The thing that sucks about these syringe-type epoxy dispensers is that you always have to mix more than you actually need to obtain  an approximately 1:1 mix ratio. 

Try gap filling CA and place a drop of accelerator on it. When it sets, sand it down by placing it on wet/dry paper and, holding the emblem down with your finger, move it in a figure 8 pattern. Rotate the emblem 90 degrees, so it sands evenly, and repeat until it's completely flat and smooth. 

If you want to skip the CA/epoxy routine, get some of this. It's a metal epoxy putty which can be thinned with lacquer thinner and is sandable when dry. Thin it enough to where you can easily fill the foil mold and you're in business, man.

[1972coronet]

Thanks much for the help , directions , and pointers , Ray and Joe !

Joe , you're right about that syringe-type epoxy . More than likely , I the ratio was never correct (on my part) . I'm a cheap-o Celt , so I was trying to use as little as possible out of that epoxy syringe ( hahaha ) .

I'll have to give the CA with an accelerator ( "Kicker" , right ? ) a go . I'm in no rush ; just want to make sure that I have a grip of foil-impression copies of the 'Duster' emblems from the MPC 1973-1975 Duster glue bombs I've acquired .

Thanks again , gentlemen 

[Khils]

I have had quite good luck using ALL above mentioned techniques .....the only thing I do different is ,after foil is burnished...I cover with some modeling clay as a backer to support foil & removes both quite easily after chilling in freezer for several minutes.  Have also formed enough over fender/ hood or where ever for location register emblem, side marker ,ect. 

[BigTallDad]

11 hours ago, Khils said:

...the only thing I do different is ,after foil is burnished...I cover with some modeling clay as a backer to support foil & removes both quite easily after chilling in freezer for several minutes.

That would work very well if the emblem being duplicated is located on a curved area (top of fender, hood emblem, etc.) of the model. The clay would allow you to pour multiple times, tilting the clay with each pour. By doing so, you don't have a massive amount of cured epoxy to sand off because the mold was so deep.

[SfanGoch]

I made this Caddy deVille script with aluminum foil filled with CA glue this morning. Please excuse the photo quality. I don't have a macro lens and I had to enlarge the image a bit. The impression was filled with just enough CA so it would be flush with the foil and I could skip sanding the back flat. I then trimmed around the script with a scalpel blade (had my eyes checked last week. 20/15 vision in both eyes.  ) and glued it to a piece of styrene sheet onto which I slapped some Floquil Verdigris. I used the back of a UMM scribing tool to remove the paint from and around the script, then polished it with Novus 2. It's a slapdash job so I could post a pic; but, you get the idea. One important thing not to overlook is to use a round toothpick, or a shaped piece of scrap wood, to burnish around the script and to push the foil into the loops of letters to give a sharper definition to your copy.

Edited June 8, 2018 by SfanGoch

[1972coronet]

Very impressive de Ville emblem , Joe ! Thanks for sharing a photo of the finalised piece ! 

I got some CA at work today --- hopefully I'll be able to test this new process this weekend 

[ChrisBcritter]

Another suggestion: Use Bondic to cast the emblems; it's cured with UV light and it's a liquid so it flows into the mold very well. I've used it for a lot of small parts,  and like SfanGoch I used it to make Caddy emblems (copied the one-year-only '70 "Coupe deVille" emblems for my '64).

Edited June 9, 2018 by ChrisBcritter

[Super28]

I would like to see a tutorial on this. All Greek to me, but would love to see how it's done. One of you talented persons out there should do one, (hint, hint)

[BigTallDad]

3 hours ago, Super28 said:

I would like to see a tutorial on this. All Greek to me, but would love to see how it's done. One of you talented persons out there should do one, (hint, hint)

Perhaps you should follow the written instructions above; they are incredibly simple. Then, if your results are not satisfactory, ask for some pictures.

[John Pol]

Check on you tube lots of how too`s on it

 

[Art Anderson]

On 6/8/2018 at 1:00 PM, SfanGoch said:

I made this Caddy deVille script with aluminum foil filled with CA glue this morning. Please excuse the photo quality. I don't have a macro lens and I had to enlarge the image a bit. The impression was filled with just enough CA so it would be flush with the foil and I could skip sanding the back flat. I then trimmed around the script with a scalpel blade (had my eyes checked last week. 20/15 vision in both eyes.  ) and glued it to a piece of styrene sheet onto which I slapped some Floquil Verdigris. I used the back of a UMM scribing tool to remove the paint from and around the script, then polished it with Novus 2. It's a slapdash job so I could post a pic; but, you get the idea. One important thing not to overlook is to use a round toothpick, or a shaped piece of scrap wood, to burnish around the script and to push the foil into the loops of letters to give a sharper definition to your copy.

A .5 mm mechanical pencil also works very well, especially as "pencil lead" is actually graphite, which is a dry lubricant (which does aid this process--use it almost every time I foil a script or badge on a model car body, even along the edges of chrome spears as well.

Art

[Super28]

Ok, got this far. This is the "Thunderbird" and Thunderbird emblem on the front fender of a 1962 Thunderturd. What do I fill it in with? Then do I cut it out and glue it to the body after it is painted> What I "CA"?

 

Help a fella out

[Super28]

Also read where one person glues the foil to the car , cuts out what he wants and cleans it after primer/ paint.?.

Thoughts???

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Super28 said:

Also read where one person glues the foil to the car , cuts out what he wants and cleans it after primer/ paint.?.

Thoughts???

 

I think you are referring to what has been come to be known as the "foil under paint" technique.

The technique that you see here is useful for applications where a script needs to be moved from one spot to another, but it's pretty cumbersome for finishing a simple script on a model.

There is no need to make a mold of the script, fill it, sand it, sand off the original, and fix it in place if it's going back where it originally came from.

That is a whole lot of wasted effort.

You can achieve wonderful results with the "foil under paint" technique if you are just looking for a way to finish scripts, and it is basically what you have described in your short post.

There are different ways of doing it, but I prefer to put on the foil just prior to the final color coat.

Then I apply the last color coat, let it dry & then clean off the script with a little lacquer thinner.

Once this is done, you can leave it as is, or apply clear coats over the top of the color.

A pretty simple technique.

 

Steve

 

 

[Super28]

17 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I think you are referring to what has been come to be known as the "foil under paint" technique.

The technique that you see here is useful for applications where a script needs to be moved from one spot to another, but it's pretty cumbersome for finishing a simple script on a model.

There is no need to make a mold of the script, fill it, sand it, sand off the original, and fix it in place if it's going back where it originally came from.

That is a whole lot of wasted effort.

You can achieve wonderful results with the "foil under paint" technique if you are just looking for a way to finish scripts, and it is basically what you have described in your short post.

There are different ways of doing it, but I prefer to put on the foil just prior to the final color coat.

Then I apply the last color coat, let it dry & then clean off the script with a little lacquer thinner.

Once this is done, you can leave it as is, or apply clear coats over the top of the color.

A pretty simple technique.

 

Steve

 

 

Thanks for the reply. What do you use to glue the foil down?

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

3 hours ago, Super28 said:

Thanks for the reply. What do you use to glue the foil down?

 

I use "Bare Metal Foil".

The adhesive is already applied.

Just cut it, and stick it!

 

Steve

[Super28]

15 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I use "Bare Metal Foil".

The adhesive is already applied.

Just cut it, and stick it!

 

Steve

Didn't know it will stick that good. I will give it a try.

 

SO, I will use bare metal foil, apply it before paint and clean it up between coats!

 

I really appreciate all the help. The biggest thing to me when  building a model, is the scripts. I've seen so many that were just amazing and wanted to know how to do it.  You paint over them they become glops. This was the big thing for me. To be able to do it right. Will keep ya'll posted!

 

[89AKurt]

I should watch this topic.  I have a VW bus emblem that I want to make separate.  Was thinking of making an RTV mold on the body, then remove it from the body so the paint can be smooth in that area, then cast a new emblem.  Looks like some tips here might help.