panel lines

[jbwelda]

theres a lot of different discussions about how to do "realistic" panel lines on models going on in the other forums so i thought i would bring it up here and maybe everyone can chime in on their method.

i say "realistic" but thats pretty hard to judge. lets just stick to "doable" and then "realistic" is a bonus!

personally i alternate between using india ink and using a gunze very thin line black marker.

unfortunately the marker generally runs dry about half way through a job and thats pretty frustrating. i wrap the cap to pen in masking tape to keep it from drying out quickly and that sorta works.

but i have my best luck with india ink applied with a quill sort of pen (sold specifically for india ink i think). i like it because its easy to remove if you goof up, whereas the marker is a bit harder though it will still come up especially from a polished surface if you finess it with a toothpick.

in fact in using a marker i often purposely apply too much and then go back with the toothpick and remove it from the panel leaving it in the panel line and can achieve some decently straight lines like that even when the panel line is very shallow due to the molding or too much paint (typically my problem is the latter).

like i mentioned in another post i personally like the look of a black panel line; to me it represents what i see in real life better than trying to get fancy with a darker shade of paint than the panels it is separating. but it also looks very bold on light colors so i suppose there is a place for the fancy thing.

so, how do the rest of you approach the lines? i notice from a lot of models displayed here that many dont bother with the panel lines but to me its like a wash: you dont know what youre missing until you try it.

[ismaelg]

I like to deepen the panel lines with the back of a #11 blade. That makes it easier for an acrylic wash afterwards. I use a very dilluted black wash. After dry, any excess is very easy to clean up with a polishing cloth.

Your mileage may vary.

Thanks,

[Zoom Zoom]

If the panel lines are too faint, I open them up with a pointed scribing tool, and dress them w/a triangular riffler file, then dress any nibs w/a piece of sandpaper.

I go fancy w/my panel lines, at least on lighter colors like white,yellow, or silver. I apply black lines w/a .005 pigment liner pen, and paint a few color coats over that to get the panel lines to the right shade. This is always on a second color coat, which generally goes on smoother than the first. I looked at the white/yellow models in my collection and the black panel lines I used to be satisfied with look too bold. I didn't like the results I was getting with a panel line wash on my white/yellow cars, the color/shade was too inconsistent. I find myself doing much less cleanup w/my pen lines prior to repaint than I did with my washes prior to polishing out the excess. I would like to see if India Ink would "sandwich" between coats of paint like the pigment liners. This could solve the occasional problem when a panel line isn't accepting the pen due to the width or depth of the line. Overall I've adapted easily to this method and personally I find it quite easy and effective, though I admit my success w/it under Testors lacquers is spotty, the Testors lacquers are amazingly pigment-rich (very much unlike their enamels).

[VW Dave]

I'm a big fan of the .005 pens as well, Bob; India ink is an old favorite of mine, but the pen gets it all done in one sitting. I did so much bodywork and sanding on this one that I wound up freehanding a couple of the door lines after paint.

[jbwelda]

nice bug-rod there!

i saw a couple of similar ones but with their roofs chopped off at a recent poor-boys (local car club) "midnite mass" (basically a drunken party with cars) but they wouldnt let them in! kinda strange because to me they carry on the true rat rod idea but with german cars.

but i digress...

as usual

[WoundedBear]

This is the reason I join these kind of groups

For a while now, I have looked at this build and thought something was missing.

I just finished a quick trial wash using Black-it-Out. What a difference. Once I make this permanent it's gonna look great. (I know the pic is off....poor sun today)

Thanks for the tip!

[j_nigrelli]

any chance of posting more photos of this ride? i have seen a bolt on conversion kit for a straight axle [real car speed & parts catalog] and i briefly entertained making a stab at a model but it's far down on the list right now.

nice job!

[LVZ2881]

I need to know where to get them, and what size i need, as i cant remeber if it is .05 or .005

[crispy]

James, I use a variety of sizes.

I took a quick look and I use mainly .05 but I do have a few .005's, either way either size should do you good. I have them in a variety of colors too.

They are Pigma Micron brand pens. You can purchase them singly or by an assortment. Right now Michaels and Hobby Lobby have 40% off coupons that will surely cut the cost.

You can find these at Hobby Lobby, Michaels or any fine art store.

Hope this helps!

Chris

[LVZ2881]

thanks Chris, that was the exact info I was looking for!!

[Zoom Zoom]

I use the Sakura Pigma Micron .005" most of the time for my panel lines (and then bury them under a bit more color to tone down the black). Sometimes the .005" is still to big if it's a tight panel line. I've never used the .05" on a model (I think the largest pen I have is a .03"). They're very handy for detailing.

[jbwelda]

ive not looked up these pens but i assume they are sealed, in that you use them until they go dry then throw them away and use a new one.

if thats the case, whats the longevity? and any tips on keeping them from drying out if they arent used all the time?

i use those gunze pens (dont have one handy to quote tip size) and i find they dry out very quickly once opened. i have found that if you tape up the circumference where the cap sits on the pen, the pen lasts much longer. i do have a problem getting a whole panel-lining session completed without the pen going dry temporarily and i have to put the cap on and let it "rest"...then it seems to work ok for a while.

given the above im looking for other options for panel lines.

i also use india ink on a quill sort of pen and that works well but the convenience of a pen cant be beat.

[Zoom Zoom]

ive not looked up these pens but i assume they are sealed, in that you use them until they go dry then throw them away and use a new one.

if thats the case, whats the longevity? and any tips on keeping them from drying out if they arent used all the time?

i use those gunze pens (dont have one handy to quote tip size) and i find they dry out very quickly once opened. i have found that if you tape up the circumference where the cap sits on the pen, the pen lasts much longer. i do have a problem getting a whole panel-lining session completed without the pen going dry temporarily and i have to put the cap on and let it "rest"...then it seems to work ok for a while.

given the above im looking for other options for panel lines.

i also use india ink on a quill sort of pen and that works well but the convenience of a pen cant be beat.

Nothing to worry about, the caps keep the pens fresh for years, unless you use up the ink! They're basically an archival-quality opaque black ink inside a disposable technical pen, almost like a Rapidograph but none of the hassles of refilling/cleaning. I used to do patent illustrations the traditional way; pen/ink drawings on bristol board. I started using these pens when they came out and I was happy to never deal w/Rapidographs again. Of course now I do the drawings on computer and they're laser printed, my pens went to my model workbench upon their retirement

The pens are only 2 bucks and change, a bit cheaper if you buy a set.

[crispy]

I'll echo Bob's comments about longevity of the pen. I've probably ruined more than I've had dry out on me. They are great and I believe priced right. Again, as was mentioned, coupon cutting makes the sets and the singles cheap! Both Hobby Lobby and Micheal's offer coupons on a weekly basis.

http://www.gellyroll.com/products/pens/pig...igmamicron.html

Chris

[vwdave92]

I've used .005 a bit and both marking pens and India ink. The india ink seems to take a LONG time to dry but it's very good on the black rubber window trim of newer style cars.

I've also gone to a number of different color pens / markers for all kinds of things I used to go cross eyed trying to paint with a brush. Gauge highlights, molded in wires, body badges... It seems there are alot more colors now than a few years ago and tips sizes small enough to use for details. Spend some time in marker isle at Hobby Lobby of your LHS and you'll be amazed.

Dave

[jbwelda]

many thanks for the tips (no pen, uh, pun, intended) on the pens; went out today and bought a .005 black and a .005 red and will be using them on my next normal scale (eg: not 1/8) build!

[ttdriver]

Hey all,

Jut wondering about the best way to deepen panel lines and what technical pens to use on them once the body is painted?

Dave

[crispy]

Hey all,

Jut wondering about the best way to deepen panel lines and what technical pens to use on them once the body is painted?

Dave

Dave, this was talked about last week. Here is the link:

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.p...ic=6797&hl=

I hope it helps!

Chris

[crispy]

I'd also like to add that after I wash the body, I start with the panel lines using those pens. I primer the body and do panel lines again. After each coat of primer and maybe the first few light coats of color and then stop. Let the last wet coat cover and that should deepen them and makes the line just a tad darker than the paint on the car.

Chris

[ttdriver]

I'd also like to add that after I wash the body, I start with the panel lines using those pens. I primer the body and do panel lines again. After each coat of primer and maybe the first few light coats of color and then stop. Let the last wet coat cover and that should deepen them and makes the line just a tad darker than the paint on the car.

Chris

Thanks Chris, maybe I should have looked around the forum a bit first There is an Art store in my local town that sell those so I have that covered

I am still curious as to how you deepen the panel lines as the ones on the model I am working on are quite shallow.

Dave

[cruz]

Hey my friend, I like doing my panel lines this way, of course with all due respect to how the other guys have posted and given their recommendations. First I always deepen and scribe my lines on any model I start with. One thing to remember is that this is a very slow process because if you put too much pressure on the knife at the beginning of the process it will definetly run away from the line so you have to start applying very light pressure because later on you will be using the back part of the blade to finally scribe the amount of plastic you need to cut away. I like to go pretty deep to the point where you can start seeing the blade marks on the other side and then I even use a sharpie on the back side to be able to see the finished product, try it and as you can see by the photos it really works very good but again, you have to be patient with this process. You see, once you have a pretty deep scribed line on the model you will be able to put more pressure as you go for the simple fact that you have made a nice deep channel to follow. After this, I grab one of my Testors Metalizer paints and with a brush I start flowing paint into the scribed line. The Metalizers are perfect for this because they are very thin and watery paints and the capillary action will help you with the process. After this, I prime my body, I will add more paint into the lines and then I will start sanding my primer to get ready for painting. Sometimes I repeat this process at least 2 more times before adding my color coats. The good thing about this process is that you don't have to worry about your panel lines after you start painting, believe me, your paint will not cover them. As you can see by the pictures with the painted 57 Chevy, your lines will still look to scale after you are done. I have had people telling me that when they try it sometimes their lines come out a little too big but when I ask them why the usual response is that they hurried a little through the process. It is not for everyone but to me personally, panel lines are a must for any model because it is just the correct way of making that model look much more realistic. I have seen a lot of great paint jobs out there but to tell you the truth, I would rather be an amateur painter if I knew my panel lines looked good.

[Zoom Zoom]

I only use the pen one time during the process; between color coats. Generally I prime, add color coat #1, wetsand, add panel lines w/.005 Pigma Micron, apply a few more light coats of color, then clear, then polish.

If the lines are too faint to begin with, I have a couple of pointed scribing tools in my arsenal and a triangular-section riffler file. I'll open them up prior to, and during, the priming process.

[crispy]

I misinterpreted the question. Just as Marcos has lined out for you above, that is the way to deepen the panel lines.

Bob, only one use on the lines? I take it you must scribe them out a bit then? Might be why I go through so many pens! LOL

Chris

[Zoom Zoom]

I misinterpreted the question. Just as Marcos has lined out for you above, that is the way to deepen the panel lines.

Bob, only one use on the lines? I take it you must scribe them out a bit then? Might be why I go through so many pens! LOL

Chris

That is correct, if they're too narrow/shallow before/after priming I'll scribe them enough that when I do my one pass between color coats the pen will do the job smoothly.

[ttdriver]

Chris no worries, you helped me out

Bob, Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

I am quite amazed with this forum, there does not seem to be any badness around unlike some other types of forums I got to for help..........

So in that respect thanks guys

Dave