Decals bleeding through

[Super28]

When I make my own decals from decal paper, you can see through them. What am I doing wrong?

 

[Deuces]

Needs more pigment???? 

Sorry! I really don't know how them things work... Maybe better decal paper???

[wisdonm]

1. When saving your artwork Make sure it is at least 300 dpi.

2. Set your printer quality setting to BEST, not normal.

 

[cobraman]

What if you printed two the same and applied one on top of the other ??

[BigTallDad]

At the risk of embarrassing myself, are you using clear or white (background) paper?

[peteski]

Color ink jet and laser printers use translucent inks and depend on the background (the paper when printing on paper, or the model's surface if printing on clear film) to properly render the colors.  If the clear film decal is then applied to a non-white model surface., the colors will not show properly.  Black is the only ink color which does not require white background. Alps MicroDry printers (like MD-1000 or MD-5000) are capable of printing a layer of white ink, then overprint it with color inks, producing decals which will look correctly on any color surface. But those are long out of production (however, there are still quite a few of us Alps users around). But even with Alps printer, getting quality decal images will require some image editing.

[Super28]

I'm using testor's decal paper. If I use the clear , most decals disappear when applied. White back ground , you get white in the decals. sucks....Any place make custom decals?

 

[peteski]

10 hours ago, Super28 said:

Any place make custom decals?

 

Go to https://robdebie.home.xs4all.nl/models/decals.htm and scroll down about half way to the Custom Alps decal companies, then pick one in your region.

Like you found out, producing good quality color decals is not a trivial task.  If you can draw your own artwork (preferably vector-based) that will greatly reduce the cost of producing your decals.

[bill lanfear]

How long are you dipping them?  I have had the water "breakdown" the bonding agent (3 to 4 good coats) and start lifting the paint when I soak them for more than 10-15 seconds for small to medium size decals. 

[peteski]

17 minutes ago, bill lanfear said:

How long are you dipping them?  I have had the water "breakdown" the bonding agent (3 to 4 good coats) and start lifting the paint when I soak them for more than 10-15 seconds for small to medium size decals. 

The way I understand his problem is the lack of ink opacity in decals printed on clear-film, when applied to a non-white surface. And of course printed on white, the colors are ok,  but the white film is visible if not trimmed right to the image.

Edited October 4, 2018 by peteski

[Chariots of Fire]

That's the wonder of an ALPS printer.  It prints in pixels of color using 4 cartridges to mix them.  But any colors other than black, gold or silver need a white undercoat or as you say, they disappear into the underlying paint.  That's because there are spaces between the tiny pixels of individual color.  The white tends to blend them together to make an opaque background.  Printing on clear decal film is done using first the white undercoat and then the colors go on top.  When you cut the clear decal out only the printing shows and the clear border disappears.

I suspect the same basic issue persists for an inkjet printer as the inks tend to be somewhat transparent on anything but a dense opaque background such as white.

As Peteski says above, the quality of the printed image is only as good as the original.  I have an old computer program by Micrographx that I use to produce vector type drawings.  If I'm trying to reproduce an image from a photo I import the photo and draw over the image and insert appropriate colors.  Then the image can be sized and printed on the ALPS.  I'm fortunate to have an MD-1000 and an MD 1300 to print with.  They are both pretty much the same with only slight differences in the format for printing.

[Pete J.]

On 10/3/2018 at 12:59 AM, peteski said:

Color ink jet and laser printers use translucent inks and depend on the background (the paper when printing on paper, or the model's surface if printing on clear film) to properly render the colors.  If the clear film decal is then applied to a non-white model surface., the colors will not show properly.  Black is the only ink color which does not require white background. Alps MicroDry printers (like MD-1000 or MD-5000) are capable of printing a layer of white ink, then overprint it with color inks, producing decals which will look correctly on any color surface. But those are long out of production (however, there are still quite a few of us Alps users around). But even with Alps printer, getting quality decal images will require some image editing.

OKI data bought out the Alps patents many years ago.  They still make printers that print white and other colors for decals(transfer media).  They are kind of hard to find but can be had.  https://www.oki.com/us/printing/products/textile-transfer-printers/c711WT/index.html

[Dave Ambrose]

58 minutes ago, Pete J. said:

OKI data bought out the Alps patents many years ago.  They still make printers that print white and other colors for decals(transfer media).  They are kind of hard to find but can be had.  https://www.oki.com/us/printing/products/textile-transfer-printers/c711WT/index.html

The price, $3400, is a little eye watering. That’s a hard number to work with, even if you’re running a small custom printing operation. 

[peteski]

On 10/12/2018 at 11:16 PM, Pete J. said:

OKI data bought out the Alps patents many years ago.  They still make printers that print white and other colors for decals(transfer media).  They are kind of hard to find but can be had.  https://www.oki.com/us/printing/products/textile-transfer-printers/c711WT/index.html

Well, things aren't that simple.  Alps Electric is a large Japanese company producing electronic components. Alps MicroDry thermal-transfer printing technology was used and/or licensed by several companies.  But AFAIK Alps was the only company making the hardware (print heads, etc.).

In the '90s Alps chose to enter the consumer printer market by producing a line of computer printers.  The MD series of printers (MD stands for MicroDry).

They produced the MD2000 series first, followed by the MD1000 series (yes out of sequence numbering), then the last MD printers were the MD5000 series.  These consumer printers were not a commercial success.  While the print quality was excellent, and the inks were color-fast and waterproof, the printers were complicated and expensive, and the cost of consumables was also fairly high.  They were ale extremely slow compared to ink jet and laser printers.  Those quickly became the mainstream consumer printers with Alps falling behind.  But Alps MD printers had some unusual and unique capabilities (like being able to retain the paper inside printer and printing multiple passes in perfect registration (the ability to layer inks), and of course the ability to pint white and metallic colors. Because of those capabilities and the waterproof ink, they found a niche market with modelers and small cottage industry producers of custom water-slide decals. 

As I mentioned other companies either re-badger Alps rinters or utilized print heads for their own brand printers.  Rebadged Alps printers were Citizen Printivas (MD2000 series), Powis Parker (DP5000 series), and OKI DP series (MD500 series).  Alps also manufactured a higher-end printer which was sold as OKI DP7000 and also Kodak First Check.

Then in the larger printer formats, Roland DG utilized Alps technology in a series of their plotter/cutter printers.

All the above printers are discontinued and out of production. OKI and few others have developed color laser printers which use white toner, so they are capable of printing white ink.  But compared to the capabilities of Alps MD printers, they have limitations and they are much more expensive (both the hardware and consumables).  That technology is not related to the Alps MicroDry technology.

[Tom Geiger]

I make a lot of my own decals.  Here's a few things I learned along the way.

Inkjet decals are translucent. Think stained glass windows!  As said earlier in this thread, professionally printed decals have a mask of solid white under them, that the rest of the design is printed on top of.  That's why you can put a kit decal over black paint... sometimes!  There are still times where the darker color can affect a decal.  Don't abandon the idea of inkjet decals, just work a strategy to make them work for you!

I create my decals on  my Cannon inkjet on BMF brand clear decal paper.  I use the Testors decal fixative in spray can.  I will print and allow them to air dry for 24 hours. I then give them a light coat of the fixative,  let that dry, and follow up with a few more coats.  And then I'll allow that to dry 24 hours before I attempt to use them.  (I build slow anyway so that timing doesn't affect me!)

One thing you need to know is that when you print decals, the entire sheet is a decal.  Unlike where you can cut the backing paper wide around a kit decal and you get a neat predetermined decal, you will need to trim your decal very carefully, because what you cut is what you get!

I tend to plan my decals so I have simple designs onto light backgrounds.  A decal always works well on white. It will also work on lighter colors like light yellow, and you can experiment on other colors. Important to note that if your source image has white as part of the design and you put the decal on yellow paint, those white area will be yellow.  

Dark color ink will work on darker colors.  For instance black lettering can be done against red paint. Again, you will need to test and see what is working for your project.  I will also say that you can add the white mask under your decal, Cady decal style.  Print your image on the clear stock,  then print the outline of the image on white stock, cut it to size and use it under your image decal.  I've done that. You can also paint the area where you are going to apply the decal white.

I find my best strategy when creating light commercial vehicles and fictitious race cars is to plan them so that the decals are on white or light areas. 

For instance, here's my still to be finished Valiant stock car.  The Court Jester is a restaurant we like in New Jersey.  They have two locations in Matawan and Freehold.  I love their Jester logo, and wanted to use it on my car.  I swiped the images from their website.  Note that I planned the car so everywhere I wanted to place a decal is white.  The Jester and all the black lettering were printed on my inkjet. The numbers  "30" were not, those are off the professionally printed NNL East 30th anniversary decal sheet.

Here's an example of printing onto a white decal on the trunk lid.  Still not perfect. Maybe if I did a double image, one decal on top of another.

Another experiment, copying the memory of the real truck....  I sprayed white decal paper silver, flat coated it and then printed the image on the inkjet.  I believe I printed half a dozen and selected the best one.

Here's what happens when you use an inkjet decal over color. Note the white areas in the geyser are green because you cannot print white.  This decal would have been an easy one to put a white decal circle under.  I left it because it works for the rat rod thing.

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Tom Geiger

[Tom Geiger]

Part Two -- for some reason the board wouldn't accept the entire post, maybe too many pictures...

 

Here's a mix of kit decals and inkjet ones.  The "Checkers" lettering, the phone and the taxi stripe all came from the Revell '37 Ford pickup kit. The word "Taxi" the number "32" and the phone number are all inkjet.  The phone number is my old one from when I lived in NJ.  Note that the black inkjet worked fine over yellow.  The advertising topper is also inkjet but printed on paper. There are instances like this, and license plates where I'd rather print on paper and use white glue than fiddle with decal stock.

Here's red and blue inkjet over silver paint.  It works!  Note that all my lettering was created in Microsoft Word. 

This one is mainly from the NNL East decal sheet, and the bus was created to use the sheet. But the "OLD S'COOL"  lettering is an inkjet decal.

And lastly, here is red over beige paint, my current project.  I also found that I can use decal fixative over these.  Note that I clear coat the decals with several coats of Testors decal fixative.  

So this is my take on inkjet decals.  Use them to your advantage,  plan your work ahead and they can be a big help to getting a model together.  

Note that with proper planning you can make effective use of inkjet decals.  It gives me the ability to create text and images quickly at home.  

I hope this helps someone!

Edited October 16, 2018 by Tom Geiger