Trying BMF for the first time-questions

[Safire6]

Hey guys-I got back into modeling about two years ago and have built 7 models since then. I've painted the 'chrome'  window trim on all of these models and while I think I've done a pretty good job with it, I think I'm ready to try BMF. So I went out and bought a sheet of BMF "Ultra Chrome". To prepare myself I've watched and read several tutorials but I still have some questions. I'm building a Model King Triumph GT 6+ currently. 

I've read that it is best to clear coat the model before applying the BMF instead of clearing it after applying the BMF. Any comments or suggestions? I'm planning on using Model Master enamel high gloss clearcoat.

On the windows and windshield trim I'm going to fold the BMF over inside the car. I want to paint the headliner inside. I assume that I can paint over the BMF sections that are folded over? I painted a test sample piece and it appears the paint it sticking OK but not sure if it will eventually flake off??

If I fold the BMF over into the car interior will I be able to glue the windows and windshield to the BMF? Any special adhesive required? (Or can I just use Testors pastic cement??)

I've read that some people have had bad experiences with the BMF "Ultra Chrome" and prefer the regular chrome because the regular stuff seems to be thinner, cuts easier and sticks better. Any comments? 

I'm planning on using scalpel blades from Squadron Tools but was wondering where I can get these instead of ordering them online from Squadron. It looks like Hobby Town and some of the other local hobby places around Cincinnati don't have them.

Thanks in advance!

Steve

 

 

[MrObsessive]

Those are loaded questions, so what I'll do is give you my process on how I do BMF.

You'll have to decide what works for you.............your mileage may vary.

I never put clear coat over the BMF, I've found over the years a GOOD sheet (I get mine directly from BMF and NOT the hobby shops), should hold up well on its own. I have models that I've BMF'd from back in the '90's and it's still holding up well.

I get your method of putting the BMF on the inside. I do this somewhat, but not overly so. I overlap the A pillars for instance ever so slightly and I have glued the windows (epoxy) on the BMF and have not had them pop out unexpectedly.

Cutting tools:

I use the newest Exacto blade I can find and in fact, I dedicate one particular hobby knife to BMF ONLY! BMF works best with the sharpest blades, and one does not have to dig hard in cutting it......simply let the weight of the blade do the work. It wouldn't hurt to score a 'guide' along the bodywork where you'll be putting the BMF as that will help trim things away after painting. The knife will have somewhat of a pre made  trough to help guide it along.

For really faint areas that can be found on reissues and such, it wouldn't hurt to lay a piece of tape or the kind of hard tape (Dymo) that's used to punch out embossed letters and numbers. You can lay this along the edge of where you'll need to make your slight scored line.

I'm not a big fan of the "Ultra Chrome" BMF. I've had a lot of trouble with it ever since it came on the scene and I refuse to use it. Your better bet is the regular chrome and then simply take the time to burnish it down and rub it out.

As far as cement absolutely stay away from any kind of solvent like cement for windows. You'll want to use either 5 min epoxy, or some kind of white glue. This will depend on the shape of your windows, and how much of a positive contact area you'll have putting them in.

You can paint over BMF, but understand that the paint can easily chip/rub off. It's one of the reasons I'm not a real big fan of too much BMF on the inside. Especially if you intend on painting the A pillars like most newer cars. Trying to get the glass in can be frustrating at best sometimes, and this is where you'll want to do as much test fitting as possible before you get too involved with the BMF.

That's all the caveats I can come up with for the moment. I'm sure others will have things to say about this, but it's how I handle BMF and I've been using it since the early '90's.

If you've got anymore questions, don't hesitate to ask!

Hope all this helps!

Edited November 24, 2018 by MrObsessive

[trick my mixer]

Hi Steve,

 Welcome to the wonderful world of bare metal foiling. I feel that once you do it once you will find it isn't all that hard and I wish I could say it was easy the first time. It takes practice and you will only get better the more you do it. 

I always clear coat after I m done foiling and have never had any problems as of yet. The  only 3 clear coats I have ever used were Tamiya, Dupilcolor and Testors Lacquer clear coat but they have never bothered the foil. The paint was also lacquer, just wanted to be sure 

to throw that in. As you I fold the excess inside but try to keep it to a minimum. Again no problem with paint not sticking. Just keep excess to a minimum ! As for the adhesive I use 

Testors cement made for clear plastic. This stuff is a a little more forgiving than regular cement.. I just finished using some ultra chrome foil and it did not seem any different than

the other ones. The only complaints I have heard from a friend of mine was the black foil was extremely easy to rip/tear. No experiences with that, the thing I like about ultra chrome it 

is shinier. I guess it depends what application you are using it for.. I did not find one sticking better than the other. One word of advice is I suggest you buy the foil in person so you

can inspect . I bought some on line from a reputable dealer and even though it was packaged nicely the sheets had some wrinkles in them. Not good. At least at store most places will 

open them up so you can look at it. The problem with wrinkles is if you cut a piece off the sheet and you make your cut thru the wrinkle when you go to peel your piece off and you get 

to the wrinkle it will break off there usually.. Another word of advice in case you are not aware. Do not scimp on the foil.. For the job it does it is well worth any waste. What I do when

when I do a front or rear window trim I cut a square big enough piece to cover the whole window opening including the trim with some excess. Then you can cut out the center leaving 

 enough to fold under. Might want to practice on something else at least once. The thing about doing it this way you avoid the chore of trying to mold the foil around the dreaded

 corners..ugh.

As for the cutting blades I have never used scalpels. I always use the # 2 blade ( the small blade that is cut at 45 degree ). Once again do not scimp on whatever type blade you use.

The sharper the better. Once I`m done foiling I put that blade away for other uses. Still very sharp but not sharp enough that it might tear the foil instead of cutting it.. Not sure where 

you can get the blades locally. I know Micro-Mark sells them. Just remember to be patient and take your time and practice. Hope this was of some help..Lucas

.

[Dave G.]

I foil with foil tape actually, which in principle applies and works basically the same as bmf ( tends to be thicker). There is no reason to have large sections overlapping into the interior of the car regardless of the foil brand. Much as the others have indicated I have found the A pillars to be covered the most.I just paint over it. My headliner paint is usually Liquitex soft body paint which is very flexible/bendable when dry and bonds fine to metal. You would want the metal free of your skin oil of course. But Liquitex is not an out of the tube or bottle application it has to be thinned in model use. I have in stock bottles of the additives required to spray it well, including varnishes I add in to get the sheen I want.. I can't speak for other acrylics or lacquer. Liquitex sticks and enamel should, I know it stuck in 1:1 painting when we goofed up masking.

As to cementing to the foil, I don't think a standard Testers plastic model cement is your answer there. It may stick initially but not over the long haul because plastic model cement melts plastic together, bmf is not plastic but metal.

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, Safire6 said:

I've read that it is best to clear coat the model before applying the BMF instead of clearing it after applying the BMF. Any comments or suggestions? I'm planning on using Model Master enamel high gloss clearcoat.

Simple answers:

Yes, it is better to foil after all of the painting is finished.

With the possible exception of the scripts and badges, depending on how you will want to do them, but we won't get into that here.

Especially if you are using gloss enamel for clear coating.

This enamel will yellow over time causing your chrome trim to take on a yellow hue.

 

2 hours ago, Safire6 said:

On the windows and windshield trim I'm going to fold the BMF over inside the car. I want to paint the headliner inside. I assume that I can paint over the BMF sections that are folded over? I painted a test sample piece and it appears the paint it sticking OK but not sure if it will eventually flake off??

If I fold the BMF over into the car interior will I be able to glue the windows and windshield to the BMF? Any special adhesive required? (Or can I just use Testors pastic cement??)

I fold the foil over into the inside of the body, but I will usually trim it back so that there is little showing on the inside.

This way, you won't need to worry too much about painting over much foil.

Even if you do, you shouldn't have any trouble with paint adhesion to the foil.

Especially if it is inside of the body where it will never be touched again.

I use the same adhesives regardless if there is foil or not.

Never had any problems, but then again, I haven't used Testors plastic cement since the '70s.

 

2 hours ago, Safire6 said:

I've read that some people have had bad experiences with the BMF "Ultra Chrome" and prefer the regular chrome because the regular stuff seems to be thinner, cuts easier and sticks better. Any comments?

This one is simple for me.

You have summed it up perfectly!

The "Ultra Bright" BMF is a waste of money in my opinion!

 

 

Steve

 

[BigTallDad]

2 hours ago, MrObsessive said:

I use the newest Exacto blade I can find and in fact, I dedicate one particular hobby knife to BMF ONLY! BMF works best with the sharpest blades, and one does not have to dig hard in cutting it......simply let the weight of the blade do the work. It wouldn't hurt to score a 'guide' along the bodywork where you'll be putting the BMF as that will help trim things away after painting. The knife will have somewhat of a pre made  trough to help guide it along.

 

I have two handles with #11 blades. One handle has a "fresh" blade, and I put a rubber eraser tip on the end. The other handle is my "work" knife; when it gets dull, I put a new blade in it and move the eraser tip to that handle. I always know which handle has the freshest blade.

[MrObsessive]

I can tell my Exacto blades from one another in that they're the 'round' type----one of them has a knurled surface while the other doesn't. The blade handle with the knurling is the one I use for BMF while other is my 'work' knife.

I have picked up the work knife by mistake though and then thought "No wonder this BMF is cutting so terribly.........I've got the wrong knife!"

Not long ago, I came across a seller on eBay that sold the blades in large 100 blade packs. I have now enough of 'em that will last me literally years by the way I build! I have a dispenser which holds the blades and I have yet to empty the dispenser as it'll hold roughly 15 or so blades at a time.

Edited November 24, 2018 by MrObsessive

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, BigTallDad said:

I have two handles with #11 blades. One handle has a "fresh" blade, and I put a rubber eraser tip on the end. The other handle is my "work" knife; when it gets dull, I put a new blade in it and move the eraser tip to that handle. I always know which handle has the freshest blade.

I also rotate my blades in this fashion, but as Bill stated, I occasionally will mix up my knives.

Some sort of marking system, like the eraser, is a good solution.

 

Steve

[cobraman]

Before you attempt to do the BMF make sure your paint is completely dry.

[BigTallDad]

1 hour ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I also rotate my blades in this fashion, but as Bill stated, I occasionally will mix up my knives.

Some sort of marking system, like the eraser, is a good solution.

 

Steve

The eraser makes it easy to change the identity of the fresh blade and also minimizes rolling...

Edited November 24, 2018 by BigTallDad

[El Roberto]

I just bought a sheet of the ultra bright chrome BMF and it works great. I've used some in the past that didn't stick very well but this new stuff sticks very well, in fact you have to work at it to get it off.

Edited November 25, 2018 by El Roberto
added word

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, El Roberto said:

I just bought a sheet of the ultra bright chrome BMF and it works great. I've used some in the past that didn't stick very well but this new stuff sticks very well, in fact you have to work at it to get it off.

The biggest issues that I have had with the ultra bright, outside of poor adhesion, are the fact that it is thicker, meaning that it's more difficult to cut & it doesn't conform to detail as well.

If the original BMF is treated correctly, not only is it easier to work with, but it will be very difficult to tell the difference in the finish.

 

Steve

[El Roberto]

13 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

The biggest issues that I have had with the ultra bright, outside of poor adhesion, are the fact that it is thicker, meaning that it's more difficult to cut & it doesn't conform to detail as well.

If the original BMF is treated correctly, not only is it easier to work with, but it will be very difficult to tell the difference in the finish.

 

Steve

Like I said,  I've had adhesion problems with the ultra in the past but the sheet I just bought sticks very well, and I had no problems cutting it or having it hide details.  Maybe they got the word and improved the produce.   Oh and I use a scalpel instead of a xacto knife for cutting it.  Much sharper than a xacto , but gets dull  quickly.

[Safire6]

Thank you everyone for all your comments and tips! I'll post a few pics here once I complete the Triumph.

 

 

[peteski]

Another vote against Ultra Bright chrome foil. That stuff is simply a thin but stiff aluminum foil.  The original chrome foil is actually not an aluminum foil but very thin foil made from some sort of low-melting point alloy.  Not as bright as the Ultra, but it is much easier to work with. It stretches and conforms to complex surfaces very well.  I would recommend it to someone especially who is new to applying foils.

 

But this is describing foils I bought some years ago. Looking at the BMF website, they mention that the Ultra Bright Chrome foil is new. I wonder if they changed its formula recently and it is now softer and more pliable?  I suppose I should pick up a sheet and try it again.

https://www.bare-metal.com/bare-metal-foil.html

 

And to toot my own horn a bit, the blue '57 Chevy featured on the BMF packaging is by yours truly.