Decaling-Before or After Clearcoat

[69NovaYenko]

I`m putting this question out there to get a general concussions on how folks handle the decal process. Should you  decal a body before or after clear-coating and waxing. If you decal after the clear-coat and waxing are there any recommendations of how to protect the decals from damage. 

[Exotics_Builder]

This applies for gloss finishes only.  I usually decal between clear coats.  That is, I will usually clear coat a base coat first, if it is a pearl or metallic.  I will polish that coat out and then clean it before applying decals.  If the base coat is non-pearl or metallic, I will not apply a clear yet but polish/clean it out.

After applying decals, I will put a final clear coat for extra protection.  I've had bad experiences over the years with aging decals on a model or handling that affects them.  So, even though not prototypical, I take the extra step of clear coating over them.

But, in clear coating over decals, one needs to be sure the clear does not attack the decals.  I usually use Testor's Wet Look Clear or Tamiya TS13, decanted and airbrushed, with misted coats applied before a wet coat.  Then final polishing and waxing.

For flat/matte finishes, the technique is totally different to avoid silvering. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

I'm definitely not the expert here, but part of the answer is going to come from the "look" you're going for.

Race-cars, for instance (NASCAR in particular) just look wrong to me if the sponsor decals are buried under clear. Stripes on race cars, however, are usually part of the paint scheme, and should be cleared to give the paint finish a smooth surface.

Same line of reasoning goes for flames, stripes (except pinstripes), scallops and other graphics on rods or customs or drag cars. They're usually cleared over on real cars, but decals and stickers would be on top of the clear.

[Exotics_Builder]

1 minute ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I'm definitely not the expert here, but part of the answer is going to come from the "look" you're going for.

Race-cars, for instance (NASCAR in particular) just look wrong to me if the sponsor decals are buried under clear. Stripes on race cars, however, are usually part of the paint scheme, and should be cleared to give the paint finish a smooth surface.

Same line of reasoning goes for flames, stripes (except pinstripes), scallops and other graphics on rods or customs or drag cars. They're usually cleared over on real cars, but decals and stickers would be on top of the clear.

True, but I clear over sponsors to protect them as some decals age worse than others.  Also, most modern race cars use wraps, so, as you stated, depends on the look you're after.  I have some decals (usually kit) are quite thick, which may also require adjusting your technique for look.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Just now, Exotics_Builder said:

True, but I clear over sponsors to protect them as some decals age worse than others.  Also, most modern race cars use wraps, so, as you stated, depends on the look you're after.  I have some decals (usually kit) are quite thick, which may also require adjusting your technique for look.

Absolutely...and you can tell I'm livin' in the past.  

[Tommy124]

I think that the extent of "damage" that can possibly happen to decals which have been properly applied to a scale model is a bit overrated. Of course, decals will probably change their color or bleach if exposed to direct sunlight for a long period and they are prone to physical damage if the completed model is not stored or handled properly. If one cannot make sure of avoiding these things, they probably should seal the decals with a clear coat anyway.

I only do so for race car models which carry a lot of decals, or maybe models with larger decals like big bonnet stripes. But I won't generally clear coat a model because of some smaller stripes, emblems etc - unless I will clear coat the car anyway. 

@Ace: good point, a lot of livery decals were stickers on the original cars.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Tommy124

[Exotics_Builder]

1 minute ago, Tommy124 said:

I think that the extent of "damage" that can possibly happen to decals which have been properly applied to a scale model is a bit overrated. Of course, decals will probably change their color or bleach if exposed to direct sunlight for a long period and they are prone to physical damage if the completed model is not stored or handled properly. If one cannot make sure of avoiding these things, they probably should seal the decals with a clear coat anyway.

I only do so for race car models which carry a lot of decals, or maybe models with larger decals like big bonnet stripes. But I won't generally clear coat a model because of some smaller stripes, emblems etc - unless I will clear coat the car anyway. 

Quite the case.  I did the Fujimi 635 Schnitzer some years back.  That had decals on top of decals.  Even though the display case was not in direct sunlight and had a door, those decals started yellowing and a couple crinkled after a couple of years.  After that, I always cleared.

[Tommy124]

I built an AMG C-Class DTM Tamiya kit back in 1995/96 and that was exposed to pretty much sunlight over quite some time. I used Tamiya acrylics for basecoat AND clear coat back then. Yes, the white letters of the "Tabac" livery yellowed quite a bit (especially the one on the rear side of the roof) but it's mainly the non-cleared decals on the clear parts ("Philips" sticker on the windscreen and the "Schneider" sticker on the side) that took the most damage...

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Tommy124

[69NovaYenko]

3 hours ago, Exotics_Builder said:

For flat/matte finishes, the technique is totally different to avoid silvering. 

I have to ask..what is your technique for flat/matte finishes to avoid silvering

[Exotics_Builder]

23 minutes ago, 69NovaYenko said:

I have to ask..what is your technique for flat/matte finishes to avoid silvering

Well, the technique came from armor, aircraft and train modelers, where a lot of matte or flat finishes are used.  Since matte/flat paints are not smooth, the technique is to apply clear gloss, polish it, decal it and then apply semi-gloss or flat clear to suit the finish you want.  In one case, there was a single small decal that I used Solvaset on it a couple of times to get it to nestle in.  It was a relatively smooth surface (firewall)

[peteski]

To address another part of the original question, I don't think decals will adhere very well to a waxed surface.  Especially if the wax has silicone in it, but any wax puts a water repellent coat on the paint's surface.

[martinfan5]

On 5/9/2019 at 7:10 AM, Exotics_Builder said:

True, but I clear over sponsors to protect them as some decals age worse than others.  Also, most modern race cars use wraps, so, as you stated, depends on the look you're after.  I have some decals (usually kit) are quite thick, which may also require adjusting your technique for look.

NASCAR teams in the modern era ( I am using 90's to current as modern) would clear coat over all the decals for the Daytona and Tallegeda races, Ive heard teams clear coating over wraps too( for those two tracks)  that is really only the time it happens.

I see both sides of the table it and both have good reason for/against,  yes, I clear coat over the decals on a lot of my NASCAR builds, and I have no cares to give if its not 100% accurate,  some of the decals that are out there, need to be coated as they are not at all durable, like ALPS printed , Ive rubbed ALPS printed decals off from basic handling during the building, so yeah, protecting them is a thing.

Edited May 13, 2019 by martinfan5

[peteski]

27 minutes ago, martinfan5 said:

some of the decals that are out there, need to be coated as they are not at all durable, like ALPS printed , Ive rubbed ALPS printed decals off from basic handling during the building, so yeah, protecting them is a thing.

That is a very good point - some decals are quite fragile.