Jo-Han '71-72 Cadillac Eldorado questions

[Luc Janssens]

A question for the kit historians and Cadillac fans here.

I have two Eldorado kits, both have the same box and kit number (C-211:200) but one has side trim and the other not, is one an early production the other late?

Another oddity is that the box-art shows the car with a padded top, yet both models come without.

Hoping for a good story

 

 

 

 

 

[DukeE]

The car with the side trim is a '71. The car without is a '72. Good finds both. Johan early Eldorado boxes can contain either car it seems.

'73 had separate box art, '73 only IIRC. '74 came in "Eldorado Rancher" boxes, but you could get a '75, maybe '76 in there too despite '74 on the box art. There was a sort-of promo kit with a '75/'76 on box too. '71-74 all one yr only releases I think. 

Mark B knows kits far better than I do, but I like Eldos. 

[Luc Janssens]

3 minutes ago, DukeE said:

The car with the side trim is a '71. The car without is a '72. Good finds both. Johan early Eldorado boxes can contain either car it seems.

'73 had separate box art, '73 only IIRC. '74 came in "Eldorado Rancher" boxes, but you could get a '75, maybe '76 in there too despite '74 on the box art. There was a sort-of promo kit with a '75/'76 on box too. '71-74 all one yr only releases I think. 

Mark B knows kits far better than I do, but I like Eldos. 

Strange cuz if Google '72 Eldorado they all have those side "grilles" on the quarterpanel, or was that an option?

[DukeE]

OK. I thought the 71 had trim, 72 didn't. 

But, no pics on web show that. 

Odd thing is the car with fake vents on fender also has rub strip and 8.2 liter engraving, the plain car has neither. Both have the Cadillac script on fender over sidelight. 

So, maybe smooth side is early? 

[Perspect Scale Modelworks]

I believe the one with the trim would be 1971 or 72. The center of the front bumper should be below the grill. The rear fender "vents" appear to be an ode to the 50-54 Caddies.

The no trim would be 73 or 74. The center of the front bumper should go straight across the grill. There is usually a side trim running from behind the front wheel opening to the rear fender, just before the taillight.

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by Perspective Customs

[Ron Hamilton]

The one with no trim is a rarity. Its was made between 72 and 73. I believe that Johan was guessing that the 73 was going to look like a 72, and created this kit. I have one of these, as well as a 72, 73, 74, 75, and 76 to build.

[Lunajammer]

Hmm. I've never seen one with no side trim and no padded half-roof. Learn something everyday.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Lunajammer

[Motor City]

Both models shown are versions of the 1972 Eldorado.  None of the 1971-1972 Eldorado kits or promos have vinyl tops.  The 1971 has vents on the trunk lid, ELDORADO in block letters on the trunk, ELDORADO and 8.2 Litre emblems on the front fenders between the doors and front wheels.  The 1972 Eldorado has no vents in the trunk lid, has Eldorado in script on the trunk lid and front fenders above the cornering lights, and an 8.2 Litre emblem between the doors and front wheels.  All of the real 1971 and 1972 Eldorados have the gills on the quarter panels.  The 1971 promos have single exhaust (correct) and dual exhaust (incorrect).  I'm not sure about the 1972 promos and kits, but single exhaust is correct.  Box art is notorious for being inaccurate.  The box art depicts the 1971 Eldorado.  The grilles are also different, and the real 1972 has chrome eyebrows on the hood over the headlight bezels.  Front bumper guards had rubber tips on the 1971 Eldorado.  The 1972 Eldorado had rub strips on both bumpers.  A 50-50 seat became an option on the 1972 Eldorado, and a landau top was introduced mid-year. 

Any Jo-Han Eldorado kit with a dual-snorkel air cleaner is inaccurate as that was only used on the first few years of the Olds Toronado.

My first car was a 1971 Eldorado.  I currently have 1968 and 1977 Eldorados, and know a lot about both generations of these.  

Edited October 10, 2019 by Motor City

[Luc Janssens]

Just to show what the '73 kit looks like..

[DukeE]

Dug this quote up from another Johan thread from '18. 

2 hours ago, Motor City said:

I hope I can clear some things up regarding the second generation Eldorado FWD kits covering model years 1971-1976.  The first issue was a '71, kit#C114.  The '72 kit is #C211.  The kits graphics are identical except for the kit number on both ends of the box.  The '73 kit, #GC-2300, has updated the ski car graphics with the correct round side marker light on the quarter panel, the revised rear bumper and taillights, and revised front bumper of which you see very little.  Since no year is indicated on the rear license plate, here are ways to tell them apart:

'71 louvered trunk lid, ELDORADO in block letters with 8.2 Litre emblem on the back end of each front fender, grille with a fine vertically-oriented rectangular pattern; '72 no louvered trunk, Eldorado in script on the front edge of the front fender with 8.2 Litre emblem on the back end of the front fender, grille with a slightly coarser vertically-oriented pattern with faint crowns on top of the headlights; both interiors are identical

'73 full vinyl top, separate taillights instead of integrated into the rear bumper, egg-crate grille

The real confusion comes with the Eldorado Rancher kit, which was issued as a '74 and '76 kit (I'm not sure about '75).  The '74 has a revised grille, taillights in the rear bumper again, and a landau top that was carried over for '75 and '76.  My '73 and '74's are difficult to get at, so I'm not sure what interior revisions were made if at all.  Both the '73 and '74 have the fender skirts.  The '75 promo has the ends of the front fenders molded as part of the body, while the '76 promos have it molded as part of the bumper assembly.  The rear taillights on the '75 are two small rectangles separated by a Cadillac emblem on each side of the rear plate.  The '76 has one rectangular light on each side of the plate.  Both the '75 and '76 promos have front & rear plates with the year indicated.  I'm not sure if the kit has a year on it.

Someone noted they'd gotten a 73 in a 71-72 box in thread below. The unengraved car seems like an early 71? Can't tell if it has trunk vents, but ALL 72-78 Eldos had rub strip. Doesn't make sense they'd fill in a rub strip as stingy as Johan was. 73 in 72 box using up old boxes? The 74-76 Ranchers/Eldorados came in boxes with a 74 on them save for the simplified engineless 75-76's. 

Also, 74's had taillights on valence above bumper, reflectors (dimples at best) on bumper uprights. Still have a 74 from family stash.

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by DukeE
spelling

[Luc Janssens]

6 minutes ago, DukeE said:

Dug this quote up from another Johan thread from '18. 

Someone noted they'd gotten a 73 in a 71-72 box in thread below. The unengraved car seems like an early 71? Can't tell if it has trunk vents, but ALL 72-78 Eldos had rub strip. Doesn't make sense they'd fill in a rub strip as stingy as Johan was. 73 in 72 box using up old boxes? The 74-76 Ranchers/Eldorados came in boxes with a 74 on them sve for the simplified engineless 75-77's. 

 

thanks for the link...

Seems like Mike Wherry also has this strange kit

[Motor City]

The real 1971-1972 Eldorados have the stainless steel strip running from just behind the front wheel to the rear of the door where it fades into a point.  The bodies in question are 1972, but one is missing the molding.  The only one I had ever seen before was the post from last year that I commented on at that time.  It's definitely not common. 

Now for a bit of trivia on the real 1971 Eldorado trunk louvers.  The early ones had substantially more louvers than the later ones.  As I recall, there were complaints about water getting in the trunk or else exhaust fumes.  I can't verify the specific reason, but GM went to a flow-through ventilation system on the "B" (Impala, Caprice, Bonneville, Catalina, Grand Ville, 88, LeSabre, Centurion), "C" (98, Electra, Cadillac), and "E" (Toronado, Riviera, Eldorado), and Vega for 1971.       

[pack rat]

4 hours ago, Luc Janssens said:

thanks for the link...

Seems like Mike Wherry also has this strange kit

Yes....and I'm still confused. 

[Motor City]

I just looked at my '72 kit which I bought at the Jo-Han factory office in 1974.  It is missing the gills on the quarter panels and the 8.2 Litre emblem on the front fenders between the doors and front wheels.  I also looked at ebay, but there was no '72 promo on there.  I found an internet site that showed 2 '72 promos that had the gills.  Maybe all of the promos had the gills?  Apparently not all of the kits did.  Why not?  Who knows! 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Motor City

[DukeE]

Promos for 71-72 seem correct on trunk vents (71) and none(72). Johan at the time was using whatever boxes they had, so correct box not an indicator, or at least less so. 

I've seen the detail kits in the past, and I don't remember trunk vents in any 71-72 kit with opening hood. Maybe they were there, but I'd think I'd recall. I was surprised when I saw promos had trunk vents when I looked the other day. 

The kit with the rub strip and 8.2 litre markings has to be final 71-72. Could we see if either the smooth side or rub strip cars have trunk vents? 

Nice build on the second mystery car. 

Those have to be an early run of 71's before detail finalized. Rub strip carried over 71-74, 73 had the round crest/rear side marker, and vinyl roof added. No reason to fill rub strip and 8.2 script. In the kits, the 73-74 shared front side lights, and the rear fenders changed in 73-74. Full vinyl top tooled to 1/2 Landau. So tool changes made. 

So your 72 may be a 71, and the kits didn't match the promos. No rub strip either? Or r fender vents? Or trunk vents?

That'd be a run with Cad script by cornering light, run with that and rear air vents, run with both plus rub strip and 8.2 script? 

[DukeE]

Found decent 71 and 72 promo pics

[DukeE]

Oh, both promos, 71 & 72 are missing the Cadillac script in front of the front wheels. And they both have the 8.2 litre trim, hard to see on pic above but found similar car in smaller photos. 

Then later, we can get confused by the correct hubcaps on promos and incorrect ones on glue kits!

[Motor City]

the 8.2 Litre emblem is rectangular and placed below the ELDORADO emblem on the real '71 Eldorado and the model

[pack rat]

14 hours ago, DukeE said:

I've seen the detail kits in the past, and I don't remember trunk vents in any 71-72 kit with opening hood. Maybe they were there, but I'd think I'd recall. I was surprised when I saw promos had trunk vents when I looked the other day. 

So your 72 may be a 71, and the kits didn't match the promos. No rub strip either? Or r fender vents? Or trunk vents?

 

FYI the brown car I posted above has no trunk vents.

I also have a '71 kit with the rub strips, trunk vents etc matching the promo.  The box art is identical to the '72s pictured with the exception of the kit number (C114-200)