What defines a rat rod?

Roadkill2525 · November 18, 2008

Does it need to be a Model T, '32 Ford and the like? Does every square inch need to be rust? Should it just be on red wheels with whitewalls?

The subject is so vague that "anything goes" or are there guide lines?

RodneyBad · November 18, 2008

I'm no Expert

It's up to an individuals interpretation.

Some may say it was just an old car cobbled together

with what ever somebody had laying around with little to no money on hand.

But thats my thoughts.

Or this might help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratrod

RodBurNeR · November 18, 2008

an old post....have to click on the picture links for some reason i can't see any photos on here lately.

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.p...amp;hl=awbcrazy

FloridaBoy · November 18, 2008

To me, a "rat rod" is a generally home built rod, of any vintage and preferably pre-war, but that rule is not etched in stone, either. I recognize a rat rod by its collection of parts, its simplicity, its rough finish, open welds, no paint, little chrome and no billet. It is also devoid of thsoe creature comforts, like comfort, luxurious upholstered seating, inside door panels (or using sheet steel or plywood, no carpeting, and certainly no air conditioning.

One of my favorite rat rod pictorials is one of some trucks modified by Jarius, and there is one very nicely created and built on in the "Under Glass" section right now.

For me, it took a while for the "rat rod" taste and approach to "take", but now after seeing some in contests, some in real size at our weekly Friday night get together at the shopping center, and a couple of rat rod magazines published in Boca Raton, Florida, of all places (a rat rod dare not to drive these streets) I have finally embraced these cars. Believe it or not, I used to think when I saw a Deuce or Model A tricked out as a rat rod, I thought it was a waste of a good body and frame for a "legitimate" street rod.

Most importantly, rat rods are a tribute to our roots and history, as early iron as seen in thsoe movies of the fifties are pretty much the forerunners of today's cars.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

Harry P. · November 18, 2008

Like Mark said.

Once upon a time, back in the early days of hot rods (1940s-50s), a car that was built "on the cheap" by a kid in his back yard from whatever parts he had available or could afford was simply a "hot rod". They looked the way they did not because there was a conscious desire to make them look that way... that's just how a miscellaneous collection of (sometimes) unrelated, cheap parts looked when put together.

Fast forward to the late 80s-early 90s or so... hot rods had gone "upscale" and the trend was for lots of hi-tech looking billet parts, chrome, expensive wheels/tires... basically the opposite of what a "real" hot rod was back in the day. A "protest" arose against that sleek engineered look, a sort of back-to-basics, more traditional look, with "vintage" style engines, intakes, wheels, etc.

Somewhere around that time the term "rat rod" came into use, to describe a car that had the look of the old hot rods...maybe it was still in primer, maybe it had parts from several different manufacturers, maybe it wasn't exactly "showroom fresh" looking... but the difference between the original hot rods and the new "rat rods" was that the rat rods were built to look that way on purpose.

Then a whole rat rod "lifestyle" grew around that style of cars (similar to the "biker lifestyle" revolving around Harleys). The rat rod movement included lots of pseudo-50s clothes, tattoos, and of course ratty looking cars... the rattier, rougher looking, the better. As Mark said, these cars became extreme in their "rat rod" look, and soon became a parody of themselves...the whole "rat rod" lifestyle was nothing more than a fake "tribute" to the original cars, and the current-day "rat rods" became more and more outrageous and cartoon-like, and many were in reality not even drivable.

Most guys who were into hot rods back at the beginning cringe when they hear the term "rat rod", because to them it signifies a phony throwback to the "real" hot rods that were were being built back then. They were never called "rat rods" back in the day, they were "hot rods".

I also have to agree with Mark... regardless of the "validity" of a current day rat rod, they're fun to build as models. Personally I like the look, and the fact that you can't build one the wrong way. Anything goes! Parts box, here I come!

FloridaBoy · November 18, 2008

After reading these posts and replies, it seems like a theme is forming here. I will confess the "rat rod" look was of prime consideration, but it occurred to me, that rat rodding is the SPIRIT in which a particular car is built. A lot of what is popular on cars today is beyond what is easily and inexpensively available, and when I see make shift grilles, or engine parts, or suspensions, I now see what when in to it.

I can remember a few years abo when Jimmy Shine had his own hot rod show on Discovery, we were introduced to him while building a deuce hiboy roadster for the SEMA show, and he took us surfing, cruising and just hanging out. When he cruised, he was in his famous rat rod, then Discovery must have read the mail, and soon, the show featured a rat rod being built, and the rat rod he was already driving. Great shows.

The spirit of the rat rod are the roots in the grass, ahd desire in the heart, and the emptyness of the wallet, which makes one get real creative.

I think every guy posting can tell in every car which reflect the spirit, and those which were built as parodies or imitations, or expensive approaches to create an illusion. I think the prime example of the illusion was a pretty neat 37 Ford Coupe featured in Street Rodder, which was built by professional builders, and featured a painted fiberglass body, and that paint job had artificial rust, cancer, and holes airbrushed in. I enjoy street rods no matter what, so regardless of the intention, if it looks good I like it.

What appreciating rat rods has done for me has really expanded my interest base. I would have never liked a street rod made of a sectioned, shortened 30's cab with plywood pickup bed, and those headlights with the narrow beams and turn signals on top of the headlight (forget their name), and same goes for a lot of other options and features.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

Jairus · November 18, 2008

I answer this question every couple of years.

The first time I answered it was for Ed Sexton who was doing research for a series of 1/64th scale hot rods.

The second time was in Model Cars Magazine complete with pictures April '02 issue.

Then again in Model Cars Magazine, in quite a few Ask Gregg and Jairus columns... but I guess it is easier to simply post a question on the forum instead of researching it yourself...

The Rat Rod type of vehicle is a spin-off of the Rat Bike from the mid 70's. The first time it appeared in print was March of 1975 issue of Chopper Magazine. The sub head was: "Rat Bike of the Month". The subject, an old cobbled together 1936'ish Indian chopper. It was dusty, rusty and very fast! The interviewer could hardly believe it even ran but run it did.

The description of a Rat Bike at the time was as a statement against the high dollar choppers being built by professionals. Most of the bikes being shown at car shows across the country then had everything chromed or painted miles deep metal-flake candy paint with pinstripe everything! The guys who built the Rat Bikes were simply trying to make a statement.

Fast forward to 1998, where I had managed a nice phone interview with Gray Baskerville before his passing and he said that the first time he had ever heard the term Rat Rod was when he interviewed the members of the Shifters car club in L.A. He said that the guys in the club sort of liked the term (Some members thought it a slur) and the purpose for their cars were the same as the Rat Bike, in that they built them as a statement against the high-dollar stuff pouring out of shops like Coddington.

The cars in the club were not so much customs although many sported chrome and shiny paint. Most however were simply bolted together using cast off bits and pieces purchased at swap meets. The theme and challenge was to build a rod with your head rather than your pocket book. The cars were safe but looked unsafe. Like unfinished projects pulled out of a barn in the mid-west. Some sporting weathered original paint, some in primer.

Most cars built using the term "Rat Rod" actually fall into the category of "Retro Rod or Nostalgia Rod". This is a rod built to look like something that could have been built during a specific time period. Could be shiny and could be painted in primer only. Could be some chrome and could be rusty. The key is the fact that it is nicely built with parts that would have been sort of expensive back in the day.

The Rat Rod today has really morphed into something completely different of late. What began as just a statement against overworked and over done rods, has now become an over done and over used caricature of itself. The application of bigger and bigger engines, skulls everywhere and none-automotive related costume "jewelry" has made the term very much over used. The punch-line is that it is up to interpretation just like Pro-Street of the 80's where big rear wheels and mono-chromatic paint do not a Pro-Street make!

A Rat Rod is built simple... utilizing basic speed parts and what ever engine you can find. It looks dangerous to your health if it were driven regular but fun just the same. A skull shift knob is not required equipment but using different and cast off stuff for a different look is a requirement. Like Lawn Chairs instead of auto seats, a mail box with flag for a scoop or using a broken sword for a shift lever... that is what makes a Rat Rod! Slightly dangerous and with a touch of attitude.

Bernard Kron · November 18, 2008

What defines rat rods?

Rust, rake and rant!

HotRodaSaurus · November 18, 2008

To me the Rat Rod looks like a cross between early Lakes cars and low buck hot rodding as read about in the Albert Drake books.

I dont like it myself but at least it's different.

In the UK I have seen some awfull real 1:1 scale cars. One a md 50s Mercury, the top chopped at home,just slice it across and down , put in the filler strips and paint it mat black. An awfull waste of a car.

Another known as the McCord Special(I may be wrong on the name) was a bucket type roadster that fell apart while being driven around a campsite. Saw these at the Hemsby weekender.

As earlier not my scene at all but can be fun model projects to use those odd parts in the parts bin.

J

bobss396 · November 18, 2008

I'm an old school hot rod type and cringe at the term. I see it as "ripping off the culture" by a bunch of wannabes. Hot rods just happened, not by design, they went by the resources in the pocket and what was available for them to work with.

Bob

Edited November 18, 2008 by bobss396

MikeMc · November 18, 2008

I answer this question every couple of years.
The first time I answered it was for Ed Sexton who was doing research for a series of 1/64th scale hot rods.

The second time was in Model Cars Magazine complete with pictures April '02 issue.

Then again in Model Cars Magazine, in quite a few Ask Gregg and Jairus columns... but I guess it is easier to simply post a question on the forum instead of researching it yourself...

The Rat Rod type of vehicle is a spin-off of the Rat Bike from the mid 70's. The first time it appeared in print was March of 1975 issue of Chopper Magazine. The sub head was: "Rat Bike of the Month". The subject, an old cobbled together 1936'ish Indian chopper. It was dusty, rusty and very fast! The interviewer could hardly believe it even ran but run it did.

The description of a Rat Bike at the time was as a statement against the high dollar choppers being built by professionals. Most of the bikes being shown at car shows across the country then had everything chromed or painted miles deep metal-flake candy paint with pinstripe everything! The guys who built the Rat Bikes were simply trying to make a statement.

Fast forward to 1998, where I had managed a nice phone interview with Gray Baskerville before his passing and he said that the first time he had ever heard the term Rat Rod was when he interviewed the members of the Shifters car club in L.A. He said that the guys in the club sort of liked the term (Some members thought it a slur) and the purpose for their cars were the same as the Rat Bike, in that they built them as a statement against the high-dollar stuff pouring out of shops like Coddington.

The cars in the club were not so much customs although many sported chrome and shiny paint. Most however were simply bolted together using cast off bits and pieces purchased at swap meets. The theme and challenge was to build a rod with your head rather than your pocket book. The cars were safe but looked unsafe. Like unfinished projects pulled out of a barn in the mid-west. Some sporting weathered original paint, some in primer.

Most cars built using the term "Rat Rod" actually fall into the category of "Retro Rod or Nostalgia Rod". This is a rod built to look like something that could have been built during a specific time period. Could be shiny and could be painted in primer only. Could be some chrome and could be rusty. The key is the fact that it is nicely built with parts that would have been sort of expensive back in the day.

The Rat Rod today has really morphed into something completely different of late. What began as just a statement against overworked and over done rods, has now become an over done and over used caricature of itself. The application of bigger and bigger engines, skulls everywhere and none-automotive related costume "jewelry" has made the term very much over used. The punch-line is that it is up to interpretation just like Pro-Street of the 80's where big rear wheels and mono-chromatic paint do not a Pro-Street make!

A Rat Rod is built simple... utilizing basic speed parts and what ever engine you can find. It looks dangerous to your health if it were driven regular but fun just the same. A skull shift knob is not required equipment but using different and cast off stuff for a different look is a requirement. Like Lawn Chairs instead of auto seats, a mail box with flag for a scoop or using a broken sword for a shift lever... that is what makes a Rat Rod! Slightly dangerous and with a touch of attitude.

Thanks Jairus.....FACTS THAT MAKE SENSE!!!!!!!!!

I think if rodders had never seen Lil Jon B work his magic with alum , a bandsaw , and a drill press The Billit BS would never have started..

That said Low bucks is hot rodding...Rats DO NOT SUCK...so chill out and enjoy all types of rods............

Harry P. · November 19, 2008

Sadly, much like any fad or trend, (Pro Street, billet rods, the van craze of the 70's, etc.), what is happening in the rat rod movement is more a matter of taste, not performance.

The whole "rat rod" thing is all about looks and "attitude". Performance? Ooops, forgot about that. You mean I was supposed to be able to fit inside and actually drive it???!!!

FloridaBoy · November 19, 2008

Jarius,

The men in the Ft; Lauderdale Model Car Club probably are in unison with me that not only are you a premier artist, but a designer, who can count on many models throughout the US, as well as a couple of 1:1 hot rods and customs as well. I enjoy all of your work, and will be entering a boat tail highboy deuce inspired by a picture you showed a few months ago.

But sometimes life gives you unexpected gifts. One night when the Table Top Cruisers had a build meeting, I mentioned that your article on rat rod pickup trucks was captivating. Almost on cue, everyone reached in their workboxes and had just about every truck you conceived in progress along with the magazine folded open to the spot.

Even I just started my 56 Ford Pickup and happily whacking away at the cab.

Of all the underestimated artists you are the one.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

Jairus · November 19, 2008

Of all the underestimated artists you are the one.

Yeah... I get that a lot!

Jairus · November 19, 2008

"Low bucks is hot rodding"!?! I thought hot rodding was about pushing the envelope in power & design, based on cars built prior to the 49 model year.......

Mark, performance is measured a lot of different ways. If someone wants to build a flathead 4 "T" bucket as a "gowjob" and drive it downtown... you can be assured that it will have it's doors blown off at the traffic light by the stock Mitsubishi Eclipse. Technology of the 30's cannot compete with current tech. However, that same Mitsu will be ignored and even shunned by most of the public compared to the guy or gal driving the "T"!

Street Rodding is always about building what you WANT to build, be it a blown 427 big block or a nostalgic flathead with 2 deuce carbs. It matters not if you personally approve, only that the owner likes it and enjoys driving the machine and likes working on it.

Personally, I love tinkering in the garage changing the plugs on a classic antiquated carbureted V8 while 60's rock-n-roll plays softly on the little radio while the sun is setting. For some reason, the world all makes sense at that moment...

Pushing the envelope is fun... but sometimes you just have to stop and enjoy what has gone before. You know?

Jairus · November 19, 2008

i'll say it again folks............rat rods SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No one is forcing you to build one. I felt that Pro-Street sucked big time... but never said it before now.

What is it to you that someone want's to build what they want to build?

Sheesh.... lay off the sauce a little buddy.

Harry P. · November 19, 2008

If you think that rat rods "suck", well, that's fine for you. That's you're opinion.

Just remember, opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one...

Harry P. · November 19, 2008

rat rod, rat rod, red rum, red rum...

Eshaver · November 19, 2008

Dave May I step in a moment ? I only just saw everyones rant a few moments ago. First let me say that "Rat " rods were really not as popular as they really are thought of to day as they were in the day.

Let me take you back to Los Angles 1948. Barris bros were doing a land office business during the time as they really couldn't put out "QUALITY " paint work in the time needed as too many were trying to get their rides painted all at once . It was said that they started to tell customers that the Primer had to "SET " for a period before the paint would adhere properly. Now that was Kinda true due to the fact that during that time , you had two paints , Straight enamel and of course Nitrocelulose Laquer, Both were questionable as opposed to todays paints. Now you had straight laquer too but that too was a pain in the u KNOW WHAT to polish .

I'm old enough to have worked in the day in the old shops too. I learned to lead from the masters and trust me I thank them today for what I know how to do. I remember Plastic body filler when it first came out and trust me on this one it was well, hit and miss stuff. paints were the same way. The fact that we have enamels with catalytic hardners is a blessing ! Waterbourne laquers , hey ! It's no wonder that "Rat " rods were prevalent then . Now I grew up here in Central Virginia . having primer on a car around here is murder on body work as the elements will soon soak under and destroy what ever you have done in weeks . Sure we drove around in Primered cars. Yep we would do that and sure enough, we would be re doing the same work over again all summer long too. Mabye that will help answer youre querry.... Ed Shaver

FloridaBoy · November 19, 2008

I think a defining moment which really put the message home for me on rat rods was on a cool and windy Friday Night in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida known as Tower Shoppes. This is a parking lot of a very upscale trendy shopping center in western Ftl Laud, which is the new growth area, and hosts an informal "bring what you got" rod and custom show. You drive up park in a predetermined location, and sit by your ride until it is time to go home. Literally thousands of people just stroll by and admire the anywhere from 100 to 200 cars that show up every week.

There are cars from every genre, muscles, fifties, fat fenders, hiboys, customs mild and wild and just about every version is seem. To live in Ft. Lauderdale is that you have to adopt a "been there and done that" attitude, acting like nothing surprises you and everything is "old hat". Not me, I look at life like a 4 year old kid on Christmas morning.

Frankly, I resist change and resisted the invasion of rat rods into the pastime. I always felt that these barnyard cars were wasting away perfectly good deuces, A's, and other vintage tin.

But this night was a chopped 3 window deuce highboy in gray primer, flathead with 3 strombergs, the right stance a crude interior, all the right stuff and definitely the right look. Now amid all this beautiful iron, the owner of this wretched deuce gets up off his arse in a lawn chair and fires up his flathead, and works the linkage to rev it up. Voom Voom Voom resounded throughout the parking lot, and soon enough, there was a crowd flanking this car, and the crowd watchers included other owners of some outrageous stuff.

He continued to impress us with the clean but mean sounds and then the crowd erupted in applause. That told me that rat rods are for REAL.

Never will forget that moment, and to this day, I am still trying to find my tape of that Discovery Channel show on Jimmy Shine.

Plus, I have an old Revell Model A Tudor Sedan with opening doors and a frame that is just asking me to rat it up. Maybe I will, but I want to learn how to weather a model first. Afterall, this may tax my modeling skills to the max. Make it look "bad" instead of making it look good.