'63 Corvette Undercarriage

[TransAmMike]

I was looking at reference pics of '63 Corvettes before building my '63 model and found the following interesting picture.  Since I've seen most modelers paint the undercarriage all black you can see that the actual floorpan appears to be unpainted fiberglass. This picture is of a NCRS Top Flight rated restoration.

[Cowpunk]

Raw fiberglass is the correct finish on midyear Corvette floor pans. The other ones i've seen look a little milkier than this. Still haven't figured out how to duplicate that.

[TransAmMike]

46 minutes ago, Cowpunk said:

Raw fiberglass is the correct finish on midyear Corvette floor pans. The other ones i've seen look a little milkier than this. Still haven't figured out how to duplicate that.

Yep, the finish is what I'm curious about.  Maybe an off white and kinda dirty it up with a brown wash.  I looked at some other pictures and it looked that way.

Edited February 4, 2021 by TransAmMike

[OldNYJim]

A related question, in case anyone knows - I've found conflicting info on what color is correct for these.  Some places say Chevy Red, some Chevy Orange, and elsewhere I read that there's variations of "Chevy Red" that put it in between the red and orange color.  Anyone know for sure?

[TransAmMike]

12 minutes ago, CabDriver said:

A related question, in case anyone knows - I've found conflicting info on what color is correct for these.  Some places say Chevy Red, some Chevy Orange, and elsewhere I read that there's variations of "Chevy Red" that put it in between the red and orange color.  Anyone know for sure?

On what part of the car are you referring too Jim?

[espo]

One reason for the flat black colored floor that appear in so many reference photos may have to do with the car having been undercoated when new or shortly afterwards. This was done not for rust issues since Fiberglass doesn't rust. Another advantage to undercoating a new car is to cut down on road noise and the sound of small rocks being thrown against the bottom of the car. As for the color of the Fiberglass this may very from year to year model and even to the build materials being used at the time. Tring to duplicate the color in the photo I would try using Tamiya XF-59 Desert Yellow or XF- 78 Wooden Deck Tan. There are many other colors usually marketed as Military Colors with many colors of shades very close to this picture.

[OldNYJim]

23 minutes ago, TransAmMike said:

On what part of the car are you referring too Jim?

Oh, sorry - I meant the engine.

 

I saw the engine in the pic, thought about it, posted about it and never told anyone what I was thinking about

[TransAmMike]

40 minutes ago, espo said:

One reason for the flat black colored floor that appear in so many reference photos may have to do with the car having been undercoated when new or shortly afterwards. This was done not for rust issues since Fiberglass doesn't rust. Another advantage to undercoating a new car is to cut down on road noise and the sound of small rocks being thrown against the bottom of the car. As for the color of the Fiberglass this may very from year to year model and even to the build materials being used at the time. Tring to duplicate the color in the photo I would try using Tamiya XF-59 Desert Yellow or XF- 78 Wooden Deck Tan. There are many other colors usually marketed as Military Colors with many colors of shades very close to this picture.

Makes sense David about the undercoating. Sound deadening also but the frame is metal and they are prone to rusting out.

Good advise on the paint colors.

[TransAmMike]

28 minutes ago, CabDriver said:

Oh, sorry - I meant the engine.

 

I saw the engine in the pic, thought about it, posted about it and never told anyone what I was thinking about

I just use the Chevy engine red on all chevy engines and to me it kinda looks orangy (?is that even a word?)

[espo]

1 minute ago, TransAmMike said:

Makes sense David about the undercoating. Sound deadening also but the frame is metal and they are prone to rusting out.

Good advise on the paint colors.

Usually, and in mass produced automobiles usually is a very broad term, The frame would have a very light mist coat of black paint. This was just enough to keep the frame from starting to rust from the plant where the frame was made until it got to the final assembly plant for the car.   

[OldNYJim]

3 hours ago, TransAmMike said:

I just use the Chevy engine red on all chevy engines and to me it kinda looks orangy (?is that even a word?)

Makes sense to me!  ?? 

[Cowpunk]

21 hours ago, espo said:

The frame would have a very light mist coat of black paint. This was just enough to keep the frame from starting to rust from the plant where the frame was made until it got to the final assembly plant for the car.   

It sounds like you're saying frames, particularly General Motors frames from say: 1955 and up, were spray-painted. That's not true.

[TransAmMike]

1 hour ago, Cowpunk said:

It sounds like you're saying frames, particularly General Motors frames from say: 1955 and up, were spray-painted. That's not true.

So, are you referring to Corvette or all GM cars??  The frames weren't painted at all??

[Cowpunk]

39 minutes ago, TransAmMike said:

So, are you referring to Corvette or all GM cars??  The frames weren't painted at all??

GM frames, subframes, control arms, and more, were all coated, just like the chassis in your lead picture. But not with a spray gun and not with a thin coating at all.

BTW, the floor pans in your lead picture are too tannish-looking. It might be because of the lights in the shop. Fluorescent throws the colors off. They almost look painted but it could never be a Top-Flight car if they were. The glass mat was white, the resin was clear. So it should look pretty close to white, a semi-translucent white because the clear resin added some transparency. And the glass mat gains transparency when it is wetted with the resin. It's a tough look to duplicate on a model car.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Cowpunk

[TransAmMike]

42 minutes ago, Cowpunk said:

GM frames, subframes, control arms, and more, were all coated, just like the chassis in your lead picture. But not with a spray gun and not with a thin coating at all.

BTW, the floor pans in your lead picture are too tannish-looking. It might be because of the lights in the shop. Fluorescent throws the colors off. They almost look painted but it could never be a Top-Flight car if they were. The glass mat was white, the resin was clear. So it should look pretty close to white, a semi-translucent white because the clear resin added some transparency. And the glass mat gains transparency when it is wetted with the resin. It's a tough look to duplicate on a model car.

Got it Fred.  Some other pictures I looked at of the floor pans they don't look wihite, I guess you could say more of a dirty white.  Those floor pans in the picture look almost too perfect.

[espo]

3 hours ago, Cowpunk said:

It sounds like you're saying frames, particularly General Motors frames from say: 1955 and up, were spray-painted. That's not true.

Not sure upon what you're basing your statement that Gm passenger car frames were not painted. Not to argue a point, but my statement regarding the treatment of GM frames is based upon only my personal experience. Thru much of the 1960's I worked in service stations where we did a lot of general service on new and late model cars and trucks. After a stint with Union Oil Company and then Good Year Tire and Rubber Company as a store manager I then went to work for a Chevrolet dealer in sales. I was in the retail car business for just over 30 years before I retired. In those 30 years I looked at the bottom of far to many new cars and trucks as they came off the carriers from the factory or distribution  centers. One of my jobs for several years was ordering of the inventory for the dealership and as part of my job description at that time I was to verify the proper equipment was on the vehicles that I had ordered. While I wasn't looking to see if the chassis or suspension was painted to any degree of paint finish, I couldn't help but notice that most components had some sort of a treatment applied to them. My calling them painted could be a bit of an over statement as this may have been something like some sort rust preventive coating that was black in color. and I thought it was a paint. The point is that these parts were in fact treated with something that would minimize any surface corrosion between the manufacturing plants and the dealerships. Bare unprotected metal exposed to almost any type of humidity even if only for a few hours will start to show signs of corrosion rather quickly.  

[Cowpunk]

11 minutes ago, espo said:

Not sure upon what you're basing your statement that Gm passenger car frames were not painted.

How many automobile/truck factories have you been inside? Let's say zero. That's a lot less than me. Better to be quiet about things instead of making assumptions.

[espo]

1 minute ago, Cowpunk said:

How many automobile/truck factories have you been inside? Let's say zero. That's a lot less than me. Better to be quiet about things instead of making assumptions.

The NUMI plant in Los Angeles and the Corvette plant  when it was still in St. Louis,  and again the plant in Bowling Green Ky. I would have liked to visit more but they didn't offer a lot of tours to dealership employees.  . 

[Cowpunk]

23 minutes ago, espo said:

The NUMI plant in Los Angeles and the Corvette plant  when it was still in St. Louis

It's both funny and sad how one lie begets another.

[espo]

2 minutes ago, Cowpunk said:

It's both funny and sad how one lie begets another.

I understand. Some have a hard time understanding reality.  

[Cowpunk]

7 minutes ago, espo said:

I understand. Some have a hard time understanding reality.  

That's what you see in the mirror. You're welcome to keep digging!

[TransAmMike]

Well I didn't  expect this tread would become a pissing match. I looked at a bunch of assemblyline photos particularly Corvette and as far back as a '55 as this what this thread started as and the frames and most suspensions are coated with something, and mostly black in color. 

[tbill]

I think the frames were coated in what’s called cosmoline or something to that effect, it’s a clear/yellowish substance that prevents corrosion. I’ve been working as a tech at GM stores for 30 years, every thing new that has a perimeter frame, the frame is black, I would guess chemically coated more so than painted. Pretty much all the stamped steel suspension parts are also black. Tie rods and such would be black or natural metal or a combination of both. 
 

these are my observations after being under thousands of brand new vehicles.

also of note, GM spin on oil filters have a different colored label on them from the plant than replacement filters have.

[TransAmMike]

Good info Tom, interesting about the filters.

[tbill]

Happened to do a first service on an equinox today, so took some pics of the filter labels, the red one is the ‘factory original’ the blue one is on the ‘new’ filter.