Black paint jobs

[Fantom]

With the fact that Revell is releasing the 1/8 Trans Am kit , I’m betting lots of folks are gonna want to paint it black. I’m considering doing mine in black but only if I’m comfortable that I can lay down a perfect black paint job. Can any of you that have tips for that perfect black paint offer up any advice? Brand of paint, polish you use, clear coat????? Thanks in advance!!!

[StevenGuthmiller]

You're going to get a hundred different answers for this question, but my two cents is that I would just Duplicolor from start to finish.

Duplicolor primer, and "Perfect Match" Universal Black and clear, all in rattle cans, followed by some cutting and polishing, will yield a very fine black finish.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

[Ace-Garageguy]

As far as Mr. Guthmiller goes, I have to agree with him 100%.

The Duplicolor black is a very clean, dark black, covers exceptionally well, and self-levels nicely if you learn to spray correctly with rattlecans. The Duplicolor nozzles work well, produce a nice fan pattern, and you get plenty in a can to do more than one model, including enough to fix whatever goes wrong.

But I also always have to chuckle at the widespread misinfo concerning black paint.

The fear-mongering began because black shows any minor defect in a surface, and because it's a mirror-like finish if it's shiny, waves and poor bodywork jump out at the viewer. This has morphed into an erroneous idea that "black is hard to paint". It isn't.

Get your prep right, get your bodywork spot-on, and you won't have any problems.

I've been painting real cars for more than 5 decades, and frankly, I find that shooting black is the easiest of any color out there.

A quality black covers better than just about any other color, matching is usually pretty simple (though there ARE different "blacks", stay with one known good black and you won't have issues), and if you lay it down slick, you can very easily make out the wet edge on each coat, helping to get even coverage.

The only real "difficulty" comes about during the sanding and polishing phase...if you don't understand the process or try to skip necessary steps.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy
CLARITY

[Plowboy]

If I were going to take anyone's advice, I would follow fellow member "Cool Hand" Luke Kenyon's. The guy has beautiful black paint jobs down to a science! He's done so many, he could do it with his eyes closed. Hopefully, he'll chime in here soon.  

[Fat Brian]

I have to third Duplicolor paint, I would also use Duplicolor black primer since the body is probably going to be molded in white. This way your total paint depth can be thinner. 

Surface prep is also going to be huge, cleaning up mold lines, fixing sink holes, just getting everything nice a smooth. Another thing that helps me tremendously is wet sanding the final primer coat, I wasn't a believer until I did it and the results are undeniable. 

Finally, getting the paint done is only half the battle, now you have to finish assembling the kit without ruining the paint. I would set the painted body aside for at least a couple weeks to let the paint cure fully to reduce the chance of fingerprints. I have a huge problem with my skin oils seeming to reactivate the paint if I handle it too much so gloves might be in order.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, Fat Brian said:

...Finally, getting the paint done is only half the battle, now you have to finish assembling the kit without ruining the paint...

Which brings up another point...religiously test fit everything before you start painting, and remember to give enough gap on the edges of opening panels to compensate for the eventual paint thickness.

I've read over and over on this board and others "the paint came out great, but I buggered it assembling because things didn't fit together at the end, and my touchups look like jell".

[StevenGuthmiller]

3 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

As far as Mr. Guthmiller goes, I have to agree with him 100%.

The Duplicolor black is a very clean, dark black, covers exceptionally well, and self-levels nicely if you learn to spray correctly with rattlecans. The Duplicolor nozzles work well, produce a nice fan pattern, and you get plenty in a can to do more than one model, including enough to fix whatever goes wrong.

But I also always have to chuckle at the widespread misinfo concerning black paint.

The fear-mongering began because black shows any minor defect in a surface, and because it's a mirror-like finish if it's shiny, waves and poor bodywork jump out at the viewer. This has morphed into an erroneous idea that "black is hard to paint". It isn't.

Get your prep right, get your bodywork spot-on, and you won't have any problems.

I've been painting real cars for more than 5 decades, and frankly, I find that shooting black is the easiest of any color out there.

A quality black covers better than just about any other color, matching is usually pretty simple (though there ARE different "blacks", stay with one known good black and you won't have issues), and if you lay it down slick, you can very easily make out the wet edge on each coat, helping to get even coverage.

The only real "difficulty" comes about during the sanding and polishing phase...if you don't understand the process or try to skip necessary steps.

I agree with this completely!

Black is no more difficult than any other color in my opinion.

It just shows flaws more readily.

That's not the fault of the paint, but rather a prep issue.

 

 

Steve

[Rick L]

I agree with with Steve and would emphasize not to skip on the primer. Light grey primer will bring out any flaws the body has before you paint. It’s better to sand out the flaws now than after you lay on the black. 

[TonyK]

I'm not a great painter at all but always have good luck painting models black no matter if I use Testors or Tamiya. I've never used Duplicolor. Where do you guys buy it and do you always use primer or can it be applied to bare plastic?

[Bainford]

19 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

 

But I also always have to chuckle at the widespread misinfo concerning black paint.

 

I find that shooting black is the easiest of any color out there.

Yes, I agree fully. I am frequently amused by this as well. On a couple of builds I have shot black simply because it was the easy way out. Any great paint job is all about the pre-prep and the post-polish. If you can lay down a coat of paint, and yet are dissatisfied with your black paint jobs, the problem is most likely in the prep and/or the polishing, not the paint or the application of it.

When all of your prep work is done and you are ready for paint, inspect the body carefully with magnification. Be highly critical, and take the time to fix the seemingly insignificant defects you find (Gunze Mr Surfacer, applied locally with a detail brush, is great for this). Block sand all panel gaps/joints with 1000 or 1500 grit paper, used wet). Small defects and undulations in the base plastic or the primer which are not readily visible to the naked eye, will easily be exposed under a coat of black paint.

There are many different ideas on how to deal with polishing. For me, I cut the paint with micromesh pads. If the paint is very nice I will start with 6000 grit, if a little orange peel I will start with 4000 grit, and if heavier orange peel or junk in the paint I will start with 3200 or 3600 grit but only areas where it is needed (always use the pads wet). You also want to knock down any paint that has 'stood up' at panel gaps edges (especially the doors) or other panel edges, which may require localised use of the coarser grits. It's good to start with the finest grit you can get away with to avoid getting too many heavy scratches that are difficult to rub out with the succeeding finer grits, yet you don't want to start with too fine a grit if there are imperfections to be removed, or you will just end up with very shiny orange peel. The coarser grits knock down the high spots more efficiently. A thin strip of masking tape on panel creases helps to prevent an errant swipe with a course grit from cutting through to primer (and generally ruin your day). Once the entire body has been cut and flattened, some people will go straight to the cream polishes, but I usually continue with micromesh pads 8000 and 12,000 grit, then rub it out with Tamiya Fine and Finish polish, and finish it off with Tamiya wax (the wax provides a beautiful, lustrous finish well beyond that of just polish and buffing, especially on black).

If you plan to clear (and with all of the pinstripe decals on a Blackbird T/A, you probably will), I apply the decals after the paint has been cut and given a rub with an 8000 grit pad. Once the clear has been applied, I carry on with the steps above.

That's my method, YMMV.

[Fat Brian]

3 minutes ago, TonyK said:

I'm not a great painter at all but always have good luck painting models black no matter if I use Testors or Tamiya. I've never used Duplicolor. Where do you guys buy it and do you always use primer or can it be applied to bare plastic?

Duplicolor is usually at your local autoparts store. I use their white primer under everything, it goes on in thin layers so you're less likely to obscure surface details. It also strips easily with Super Clean where the actual paint does not, this way you can always get back to bare plastic if things go poorly. Just toss it in the purple pond and the paint comes off in sheets. 

[Oldcarfan27]

21 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Duplicolor primer, and "Perfect Match" Universal Black and clear, all in rattle cans, followed by some cutting and polishing, will yield a very fine black finish.

Add my agreement to this.

May I also suggest block sanding the primer smooth before paint. You'll be surprised how much texture there is in primer coats.

Pros do this religiously and perfect the primer BEFORE ever even laying a coat of paint!

I learned this after I had my car painted at a shop years ago. I did all my own body work and primer spotted it. When it came back, you could see the areas where the primer spots were. They were more textured than the rest.

And "YES!", you need to use primer before using any Dupli-Color lacquer based paints!!!!

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, TonyK said:

I'm not a great painter at all but always have good luck painting models black no matter if I use Testors or Tamiya. I've never used Duplicolor. Where do you guys buy it and do you always use primer or can it be applied to bare plastic?

You can get Duplicolor rattlecans at most general auto-parts stores.

Use one of the many Duplicolor primers, depending on your specific project, i.e. a "high-build" primer over heavy bodywork, etc.

Also see Steve Guthmiller's recommendations posted elsewhere. His work speaks for the veracity of his opinions.

[StevenGuthmiller]

3 hours ago, Fat Brian said:

Duplicolor is usually at your local autoparts store. I use their white primer under everything, it goes on in thin layers so you're less likely to obscure surface details. It also strips easily with Super Clean where the actual paint does not, this way you can always get back to bare plastic if things go poorly. Just toss it in the purple pond and the paint comes off in sheets. 

Exactly. 
Any of the Duplicolor lacquer primers will be very helpful if you need to strip the paint.

I use mostly Duplicolor “Primer/Sealer” myself.

 

 

 

Steve

[Sandboarder]

Seeing as no one wants to share a picture of the actual paint. Is this it??

 

[Fat Brian]

This is the packaging in my area. The primer comes in bigger cans with a gray label and a cap that corresponds to the primer color.

[Rodent]

Since the Duplicolor rattle cans are designed to paint 1:1 parts, I think their nozzles are better suited to painting large scale models than hobby paint nozzles are.

[Ace-Garageguy]

22 minutes ago, Rodent said:

Since the Duplicolor rattle cans are designed to paint 1:1 parts, I think their nozzles are better suited to painting large scale models than hobby paint nozzles are.

Have you ever used them?

[StevenGuthmiller]

37 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Have you ever used them?

I think you misunderstand his point Ace. 
I did at first.

I believe he’s just stating that Duplicolor fan spray nozzles work better than small hobby cans for painting larger scale kits, but I don’t believe he’s insinuating that they aren’t great for smaller scale as well.

There’s no question in my mind that Duplicolor nozzles are some of the best out there.

Certainly miles ahead of Testors, and considerably better that Tamiya also.

 

 

 

Steve

[Ace-Garageguy]

4 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

...There’s no question in my mind that Duplicolor nozzles are some of the best out there.

Certainly miles ahead of Testors, and considerably better that Tamiya also.

Far as I'm concerned, that's the bottom line.

Who cares what they're "designed for"?

If they work better than the rest, and they do for me (without excess paint going everywhere, which I think is the implication), that's all I need to know.

[Rodent]

2 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Have you ever used them?

Yes. People keep running into my 1:1 S10 and several parts of it like the rear bumper beam and some miscellaneous trim parts are painted (gloss) black with Duplicolor rattle cans. Steve G understood what I was saying. I have difficulty with hobby paint nozzles in the rare occurrence that I build a larger scale kit. I can't get a smooth finish on a larger area with Tamiya or Model Master, the paint seems to flash too fast no matter what the temperature. I just think that the larger fan nozzles of the Duplicolor cans would be an advantage with a large scale body, especially 1/8. I have painted 1/24 and 1/25 bodies with Duplicolor as well, but not often. They work fine, but the metallic colors can be a bit out of scale.

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Rodent said:

I have painted 1/24 and 1/25 bodies with Duplicolor as well, but not often. They work fine, but the metallic colors can be a bit out of scale.

I agree with this as well.

I generally only use Duplicolor paints when using solid colors, such as black, white or bright red.

For all of my metallic paint jobs I use MCW, or Scale Finishes.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[Dave G.]

8 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I agree with this as well.

I generally only use Duplicolor paints when using solid colors, such as black, white or bright red.

For all of my metallic paint jobs I use MCW, or Scale Finishes.

 

 

 

 

Steve

I'd like to try MCW enamel along the way I think. I've used their lacquer and to me in 1/16 scale the thinner is too fast. I contacted the company about using the slower thinner in the automotive mixes and got no reply. And you can't retard it yourself really because the paint is already thinned correctly. So now I'm into tons of buffing or clear coating which clear coat I'm not a fan of on classic and antique car bodies at all. Now Tamiya LP I mix myself but of course you can't get all the classic colors. Fine with black though, it goes on smooth and glossy thinned with Mr Leveling Thinner 1-1 or so. Very little work to buff it up. Actually even the Tamiya black acrylic is good thinned with DNA, I've use that on 1/16 classic car fenders and it's an easy buff job, no clear coat, looks convincing.

Course not much of what I've said has anything to do with spray cans if that's what's on the OP's heart.

[Ace-Garageguy]

12 hours ago, Rodent said:

...the metallic colors can be a bit out of scale.

Agreed, but not as bad as the old Testors metallics that gave a big metalflake bass-boat effect...which worked well for some scale applications like fiberglass dune buggies.

The Duplicolor paints labeled "mica" or "pearl" usually have much finer flakes, and can sometimes provide an acceptable scale finish on a custom, but you never know until you get it home and do a sprayout.

This is a Duplicolor "mica", acceptable flake size for a custom paint job, but still way too huge to represent OEM paint.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy

[StevenGuthmiller]

3 hours ago, Dave G. said:

I'd like to try MCW enamel along the way I think. I've used their lacquer and to me in 1/16 scale the thinner is too fast. I contacted the company about using the slower thinner in the automotive mixes and got no reply. And you can't retard it yourself really because the paint is already thinned correctly. So now I'm into tons of buffing or clear coating which clear coat I'm not a fan of on classic and antique car bodies at all. Now Tamiya LP I mix myself but of course you can't get all the classic colors. Fine with black though, it goes on smooth and glossy thinned with Mr Leveling Thinner 1-1 or so. Very little work to buff it up. Actually even the Tamiya black acrylic is good thinned with DNA, I've use that on 1/16 classic car fenders and it's an easy buff job, no clear coat, looks convincing.

Course not much of what I've said has anything to do with spray cans if that's what's on the OP's heart.

I can't say that I know too much about any of that.

All that I know is that MCW lacquer shot right out of the jar, cleared with Duplicolor clear and polished, gives me great results.

I can't remember the last time that I displayed one of my models at a show, or online for that matter, when I didn't get a dozen "how do you get such an authentic and shiny finish?"

That's all that I need to hear to assure me that I'm doing something right.

 

 

 

 

Steve