A Rivian actually used as a TRUCK for 1500 miles: looks pretty good so far...

[Ace-Garageguy]

 

[BlackSheep214]

Well, that didn’t last long. POS in my opinion...LOL!

[Ace-Garageguy]

59 minutes ago, BlackSheep214 said:

Well, that didn’t last long. POS in my opinion...LOL!

Probably plastic gears or silly cables in the bed-cover retraction mechanism. Not good to have a failure at only 1500 miles, but it's also typical of early production vehicles to suffer from detail problems.

The part of the review that I was particularly interested in is that the vehicle seems to be capable of performing as a real, useful truck, as opposed to the fashion statements most pickups are today. Of course, even Yugos usually made it past 1500 miles.

It'll be even more interesting to see how the thing is doing after 100,000 miles of working for its living.

[iamsuperdan]

Saw this article last week. Overall, sounds pretty typical of a new vehicle.

 

The retractable bed covers are horrible. Over the years, I've sold countless trucks and have added the retractable bed covers to vehicles at clients' request. Both power and manual. I've even done a manual Retrax cover on a couple of my own trucks. Without fail, they all had issues. As soon as they get a little dirty, or icy, they stop rolling up nicely . The smooth operation is gone, and they get jammed up. Horrible. And I always try to talk people into different covers.

 

$1600 for a windshield. Welcome to the new reality. Windshields well over a $1000 are commonplace now. Built in antenna, heating strips, sensors for adaptive cruise and radar, and all kinds of other stuff. Heck, anew GMC windshield can be well over $1k. Best advice, when you get your new vehicle, head straight to a glass shop and get that coating film they can add. And hopefully, more brands will follow Jeep's lead and make Gorilla Glass available from factory.

 

I like the Rivians. Have been following their progress for a few years now, and it's nice to see an EV truck designed to be an actual truck that does truck things. Will be interesting to see the Bollinger when/if it finally arrives. Or the Atlas.

On a somewhat related note, our first F150 Lightning is in a railcar and due to arrive here next week.

 

[Mr. Metallic]

On 6/7/2022 at 9:18 AM, iamsuperdan said:

On a somewhat related note, our first F150 Lightning is in a railcar and due to arrive here next week.

 

Saw my first Lightning in the real world, and surprisingly it is at our dealership here in our little town of less than 2000 people. And it's on the lot, not an order for a customer. 

[iamsuperdan]

13 hours ago, Mr. Metallic said:

Saw my first Lightning in the real world, and surprisingly it is at our dealership here in our little town of less than 2000 people. And it's on the lot, not an order for a customer. 

We're getting 5 for 2022 model year, and all are sold. But one is sold to the boss, and will be available here for demoing, which is good. 

Should get more for 2023 model year. Fingers crossed, I'm angling to get one for my own demo for next summer.

[Mike 1017]

I have been looking at E cars. The range depends on how many options you are using. My main concern is road trips and the availability of charging stations. There are plenty of horror stories about 2-3 hour charging times. Missed reservations, parties, airline flights and so on and so on.

Tesla has the most stations and is building more. Thier pick up is one I would consider buying.

Mike

[BlackSheep214]

On 6/9/2022 at 11:00 AM, Mike 1017 said:

 

Tesla has the most stations and is building more. Thier pick up is one I would consider buying.

Mike

If you can afford one and pay for the upkeep and service. All these EV coming out comes with a price - a very high sticker price. Who’s to say the average person will and can afford to buy them? Not very many. What then?

Sure, it’s going to be a total nightmare owning EV automobiles. Charging times, availability of charging stations, getting stranded after running out of charge, repair bills including battery replacements (get ready to put out another mortgage to pay for it), having charging stations installed in your own home (imagine your electric bill and if your house has amperage to handle charging your EV), dependability of EV starting in cold weather climates during winter months,  etc...

So many issues that these green deal zealot folks pushing for electric vehicles often overlook and refuse to look at the negative side of owning such POS electric automobiles.

Whats next? Banning gas powered lawn equipment? Rider and regular lawnmowers, weed trimmers, hedge trimmers, chain saws, etc... Even those electric lawn equipment are useless as watching a second coat of paint dry.

[Plowboy]

5 minutes ago, BlackSheep214 said:

If you can afford one and pay for the upkeep and service. All these EV coming out comes with a price - a very high sticker price. Who’s to say the average person will and can afford to buy them? Not very many. What then?

Sure, it’s going to be a total nightmare owning EV automobiles. Charging times, availability of charging stations, getting stranded after running out of charge, repair bills including battery replacements (get ready to put out another mortgage to pay for it), having charging stations installed in your own home (imagine your electric bill and if your house has amperage to handle charging your EV), dependability of EV starting in cold weather climates during winter months,  etc...

So many issues that these green deal zealot folks pushing for electric vehicles often overlook and refuse to look at the negative side of owning such POS electric automobiles.

Whats next? Banning gas powered lawn equipment? Rider and regular lawnmowers, weed trimmers, hedge trimmers, chain saws, etc... Even those electric lawn equipment are useless as watching a second coat of paint dry.

An EV doesn't have to "start". It's more like turning on a light switch. The base Lightning starts at $40,000 and goes up to "90,000. With every new vehicle, there's going to growing pains. Just like the ICE vehicles had in the beginning and continue to have. There's going to be a learning curve. 

I've been doing some figures using the Lightning as my reference. With my current F-150 and current gas prices, it costs me a little over $88 to go 320 miles. I seriously doubt that it would cost $88 to charge the batteries in the Lightning. It costs me on average  $300 a month for the electric to run my home which is a little over 2500 sq. ft. That's  $10 a day to run an entire house. I doubt that a charger would use more electric in a day to charge a battery than an entire house would use. I'm not saying it would only cost $10 to charge the battery. But, it couldn't be much more. Even if it was quadrupled, I'd still be saving money. 

[iamsuperdan]

People are so concerned about range in the EVs.

Sorry, but realistically, how far is your daily commute?

For most people, an EV will be just fine for their daily driving needs. Keep an ICE truck around for your roadtrips, but EV makes total sense for daily use. 

Are they any better for the environment? Not really, not if you're checking out the big picture. Are they going to save the average consumer money? Probably. If they're looking for a new car anyway, why not consider EV?

 

And if you read the manual, and learn to properly pre-heat the car and batteries, then the winter heat issue goes away, and the winter range drop is lessened. Heck, for most people, even if the range drops to half in the winter, that will still cover your daily commute.

Of course, if you live in the north, and don't have a garage, you should most likely hold off on an EV purchase.

[BlackSheep214]

I am 100% in agreement. Those in areas that get snow and cold during winter months and no garage are a bad fit in owning an EV.

[BlackSheep214]

I finally saw the Rivian in my area. I gotta tell you.... it’s ugly as..... hmmm.... Fugly is a better word to describe it. The LED headlights on them are annoying as **** and enough to blind you - even in daylight.  

The headlights is basically a circle outline shape, not like typical headlights on cars today. I can’t imagine the cost in replacing those should one go out.

Edited June 18, 2022 by BlackSheep214

[Joe Handley]

18 hours ago, BlackSheep214 said:

I finally saw the Rivian in my area. I gotta tell you.... it’s ugly as..... hmmm.... Fugly is a better word to describe it. The LED headlights on them are annoying as **** and enough to blind you - even in daylight.  

The headlights is basically a circle outline shape, not like typical headlights on cars today. I can’t imagine the cost in replacing those should one go out.

Don’t know what they cost now, but replacement headlight assemblies on my 2012 Chrysler 200 were well over $1000 per assembly 10 years ago, and it still used halogen headlight bulbs in projector housings, incandescent turn signal bulbs, then only LEDs are the character lights over the other lights.  If the Rivian had LED headlights, those should last a lot longer than Halogen, HID, or just plain old incandescent lights, unless the trucks are damaged in a wreck or vandalized.

[niteowl7710]

If you can afford to he an early EV user, then you can also afford to put in a charging station in your own garage. Which means your vehicle will be on "F" every morning and it would be all but impossible to "run out" of charge day to day. Also if you can afford of all of that, you more than likely aren't going to keep the vehicle much beyond the end of the warranty. So yes someone will eventually have to pay for a new battery, it won't be the original owner.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, niteowl7710 said:

...Also if you can afford of all of that, you more than likely aren't going to keep the vehicle much beyond the end of the warranty. So yes someone will eventually have to pay for a new battery, it won't be the original owner.

And therein lies the rub...or one of them, anyway.

Cost of repairs of fairly recent vehicles already often makes them prohibitively expensive for second and third owners to keep on the road.

I believe we'll see a gradual decline in the use of older vehicles, because folks who can't afford new won't be able to afford post-warranty repairs either.

The cost of an automatic transmission replacement for a second-hand car can easily exceed the value of the vehicle today.

Replacement of a battery pack in an EV will probably be up there too.

It's almost as though there's an intentional driving force operating to further separate the working classes from the techies and "elites".

Working class people who can't afford new vehicles will be forced to rely on public or on-call transportation.

Don't say nobody warned you.

[niteowl7710]

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

And therein lies the rub...or one of them, anyway.

Cost of repairs of fairly recent vehicles already often makes them prohibitively expensive for second and third owners to keep on the road.

I believe we'll see a gradual decline in the use of older vehicles, because folks who can't afford new won't be able to afford post-warranty repairs either.

The cost of an automatic transmission replacement for a second-hand car can easily exceed the value of the vehicle today.

Replacement of a battery pack in an EV will probably be up there too.

It's almost as though there's an intentional driving force operating to further separate the working classes from the techies and "elites".

Working class people who can't afford new vehicles will be forced to rely on public or on-call transportation.

Don't say nobody warned you.

Meh you're trying to argue a conundrum older than time itself. Some people will always have less than others. There are entire swaths of people who have never purchased a NEW car, or even been able to afford a vehicle at all since people stopped riding horses.  As someone who in what seems like another lifetime ago was so broke I lived in an apartment without functional electricity for several months the costs of fixing a 5th owner vehicle were also cost prohibitive back then too. We live in these rose tinted nostalgiavision where everyone worked on their own cars, but that's simply a fantasy otherwise dealership service departments (to say nothing of independent garages) would have died out decades ago. Certainly some people can and do all their own repairs, but just like the fantasy that every midsized GM was a 454 Chevelle, GTO or 442 Olds that people spun their own wrenches - the reality is most were base model transportation appliances that people didn't do their own maintenance work on...

The price of EVs, like any tech, will slowly drop until anyone who could afford a new ICE vehicle can also afford an EV. My wife just bought an SUV in the low 30s that has comfort and safety features (or annoyances depending on your view) that were solely the realm of high end luxury vehicles 10-15 years ago. EV sales still only represent something like 2% of purchases, it'll take a while before their a significant portion, let alone majority - especially in a car centric country like the U.S. People in positions of legislative power, even in California, are already starting to realize the idea that everything will be electric within 8-10 years isn't at all realistic. 

Edited June 20, 2022 by niteowl7710

[Ace-Garageguy]

[1930fordpickup]

A question for someone that understands what it takes to charge one of these trucks. 

How many kilo watts does it take to charge one ?  I read they have a 130 kilowatt battery with an optional 180 kilowatt. Is this good info?  I guess my question is if it has half of a charge do you just divide the 130  kilowatt by half for a cost?  If this is how it works shouldn't they have to add more line into or neighbor hoods for charging? They are already calling for brown outs here in Michigan this summer. Again I am asking to learn something, not trying to start anything. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

5 hours ago, 1930fordpickup said:

A question for someone that understands what it takes to charge one of these trucks. 

How many kilo watts does it take to charge one ?  I read they have a 130 kilowatt battery with an optional 180 kilowatt. Is this good info?  I guess my question is if it has half of a charge do you just divide the 130  kilowatt by half for a cost?  If this is how it works shouldn't they have to add more line into or neighbor hoods for charging? They are already calling for brown outs here in Michigan this summer. Again I am asking to learn something, not trying to start anything. 

https://www.homechargingstations.com/cost-charge-electric-car-calculator/

And yes, for the time being, the grid in many areas is barely adequate to handle peak loads as it is. Add in a lot of vehicles being plugged in when their owners return home and turn up the AC, things will get interesting.

Localities that depend heavily on "renewable" power generation are already having trouble, as the peak load doesn't always conveniently coincide with peak sunshine and wind.

EDIT: Like many modern issues, the question of EVs and the switch to renewables is highly complex. It's also polarizing, with opponents and proponents continually trying to shout each other down, often oversimplifying the benefits and costs due to lack of understanding.

The rational middle-ground, based on harsh reality, is rarely what we hear.

Edited June 20, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy
CLARITY

[keyser]

CLARITY ?

[Plowboy]

6 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

The rational middle-ground, based on harsh reality, is rarely what we hear.

Too right! That's why I've been watching videos of reviews on the Lightning. A couple of guys with a YouTube channel called Truck Life is driving one from Michigan to Colorado and then to Alaska. I believe that will be a great test for available charging stations and the range. They drag raced it at Colorado and the thing turns consistent 12.90s. That's quick for a pickup! Especially one that weighs more than the ICE counterpart. 

I'm nowhere near ready to make the leap. But, I have been trying to learn all I can. I think it's only a matter of time until Ford offers the Maverick as an EV. If they do, they will really get my attention! 

[iamsuperdan]

13 minutes ago, Plowboy said:

Too right! That's why I've been watching videos of reviews on the Lightning. A couple of guys with a YouTube channel called Truck Life is driving one from Michigan to Colorado and then to Alaska. I believe that will be a great test for available charging stations and the range. They drag raced it at Colorado and the thing turns consistent 12.90s. That's quick for a pickup! Especially one that weighs more than the ICE counterpart. 

I'm nowhere near ready to make the leap. But, I have been trying to learn all I can. I think it's only a matter of time until Ford offers the Maverick as an EV. If they do, they will really get my attention! 

I think this winter will be the big test, when we can start hearing real world reports about charging and battery life in winter environments.

EV won't be good for roadtrips anytime soon, but for daily driving and short trips, it can definitely be a solution for some.

 

I'm like you. Not ready to make the leap just yet, but I've seen the cliff, and I've looked over the edge.

 

 

 

Also, in terms of pricing and purchase costs.

2022 Ford F150 Lightning XLT with extended range battery - $84800 CDN

2022 Ford F150 XLT 4X4 - with EcoBoost, and same equipment as the above - $71685 CDN

 

So yes, there is a price jump for the EV. But, if you were to remove the extended range battery at $13k CDN, the pricing is almost identical.

Not much different than when people look at say a Dodge Challenger. Do you want the V6, the V8, or the Hellcat? RWD or AWD? There's a price different there too, and different performance levels. Same as the trucks. Different vehicles are priced differently. And depending on what you want, you'll have to pay for it.

 

 

 

[keyser]

US has tax credit if $7800 usd. Only for first ?10k cars, I forget. Makers are trying to get that extended, obvs would bring price parity. 
CN have any subsidies? 
BTW, what is stock and sales # looking like? Anything improving? 

[BlackSheep214]

On 6/19/2022 at 11:21 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

Exactly. I refuse to invest my hard earned salary on an EV and I’ve already stated my reasons. 

 

[iamsuperdan]

18 hours ago, keyser said:

US has tax credit if $7800 usd. Only for first ?10k cars, I forget. Makers are trying to get that extended, obvs would bring price parity. 
CN have any subsidies? 
BTW, what is stock and sales # looking like? Anything improving? 

 

Yeah, depending on the vehicle and the province, there are some rebates we can take advantage of. The iZEV program offers up to $5k for vehicles that have over 50km of electric range.  Hybrids under than threshold get $2500.

If you're leasing, you get $1250 per year.

 

So not as much as you get in the US, but it helps.

 

 

Stock and inventory are slowly getting back to normal here.

F150 stock is just fine right now. We have 8 on ground and about 30 that will be arriving over the next month or so. Escape, Bronco Sport, Explorer, Edge...all easy to get. 

Super Duties, Transits, Rangers...all sold out for us for 22 model year. Hoping for more allocation for next year. But we have already sold out whatever allocation we get for the 23 Transit. Which is crazy.

Bronco we can order, but have no stock yet. We have 4 on order, should be arriving in August. Currently available.

F150 Lightning. We got 4 for 2022. Should get at least double that for 2023. All the 22s were pre-sold. We have 2 of the 23s sold so far. If someone were to order, I can get them spring 23 delivery.