Thin line white wall tires.

[Pete J.]

I know it doesn't come up often, but I though some of you would like to see a jig I turned to put narrow whitewall on just about any tire.  It is really simple. The center plug is conical so when you put a tire on it, it is automatically centered.  The sleeve goes over the tire and center piece and you push the center piece up with a fair amount of pressure until it is about as far as it will go.  Then you take a white gel pen(I like the Japanese Gelly Roll pens I get at Office depot) and draw a circle using the inside of the sleeve as a guide.  I find that 3 or 4 passes with light pressure gives you a clean line.  You can vary the width with the pen choice.  Gelly Roll has 3 or 5 different widths.  For red or blue lines, you need to put a white down first, let it dry thoroughly and then go over the top with a red or blue pen.  The red or blue are rather transparent and are very faint without the white pen underneath.  

  Now, these are not for sale.  It took my way to long to make one and if I just charged for my time, they would cost $75 to $100 each.  Not worth it to any modeler.  However, if you have a lathe or know someone who does and would do the work, I will gladly send you a copy of the plans I drew up and you can make it yourself. 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Pete J.

[TonyW]

Nice work. Thanks for posting.

[NOBLNG]

That looks like it works perfectly.?

[OldNYJim]

Not as fancy or precise, but the same tip with a Gelly Roll works with a circle template too.

 

[Pete J.]

31 minutes ago, CabDriver said:

Not as fancy or precise, but the same tip with a Gelly Roll works with a circle template too.

 

That's were this all started.  I could never get them centered using a template, so I built a better mouse trap. This is V 2.2. I love a good challenge!

[OldNYJim]

57 minutes ago, Pete J. said:

That's were this all started.  I could never get them centered using a template, so I built a better mouse trap. This is V 2.2. I love a good challenge!

Yeah, that's a really nice solution to the problem!  Great thinking!

[peteski]

Seems like a very useful fixture, but I can't quite visualize how to use it.  Seems that the fixture does not get chucked in a lathe for painting the line. It is stationary, and you simply move the pen by hand around the inside of the cylinder?  I also don't quite understand the ". . . you push the center piece up with a fair amount of pressure until it is about as far as it will go."  Pressure? Is the center piece made to fit tightly inside the cylinder?  How far does it have to be pushed up in the cylinder?  Any chance you could post a photo of the fixture as it needs to be for painting the line?  Maybe another photo showing where the pen is while painting the line?  That should make it painfully clear (to me).

 

The other question is about the Gelly Roll pen.  Does the white ink dry hard, or is it easy to rub off?  I have tried those pens (still have them) and the ink takes long to dry, and rubs off really easy.

Edited July 20, 2022 by peteski

[Pete J.]

1 hour ago, peteski said:

Seems like a very useful fixture, but I can't quite visualize how to use it.  Seems that the fixture does not get chucked in a lathe for painting the line. It is stationary, and you simply move the pen by hand around the inside of the cylinder?  I also don't quite understand the ". . . you push the center piece up with a fair amount of pressure until it is about as far as it will go."  Pressure? Is the center piece made to fit tightly inside the cylinder?  How far does it have to be pushed up in the cylinder?  Any chance you could post a photo of the fixture as it needs to be for painting the line?  Maybe another photo showing where the pen is while painting the line?  That should make it painfully clear (to me).

 

The other question is about the Gelly Roll pen.  Does the white ink dry hard, or is it easy to rub off?  I have tried those pens (still have them) and the ink takes long to dry, and rubs off really easy.

Peter,  here is a shot of it at the end of the process.  The concept with pushing it in, is that the central shaft has a taper to it to accommodate different tires by different makers.   The two halves go together with a tolerance of  .003".   Pushing it up does two things.  First it centers the tire by sliding it down the taper.  Second, when it reaches the top, pushing it a little more brings it flush with the lip.  It should be tight enough to level the tire and make it meet the upper lip snuggly. 

I don't think I could hold jig, pen and snap a photo?.  Not enough hands. 

As to the Gelly rolls, yes they to take a while to dry.  Is it hard when dry?  Well it won't take a lot of handling but it is firm enough that you can touch it.  I can't speak to all tires,because different model companies use different formulas for their rubber. Regardless, I top coat most of my tires with either flat orsemigloss clear and that seems to protect them.  

  Here is a photo.  Perhaps this will clarify it.  I put the scratch in the top, so if I want to make a blue or red stripe, I know the tire is aligned the same way.  I have found that some tires are not perfectly concentric inside and out.  

[peteski]

Thanks for the additional info and  photo.  Yes, it is now clear.  The way I interpreted your original sentence (which I quoted) was that you were firmly pushing the inner part of the fixture into the cylinder.  But now that I know that it is the tire being firmly pushed onto the tapered end of the fixture, it makes perfect sense.

Now I see how the inner surface of the cylinder guides the pen's tip around the tire.  That results in the stripe being close to the outer diameter of the tires.  Most narrow white walls I have encountered have the white stripe about half way on the sidewall. There is probably an easy way to change the pen's offset from the cylinders inner wall, to paint the stripe closer to the center of the tire.

I'm also curious about the marks scratched onto the top surfaces of the fixture.

[Pete J.]

5 hours ago, peteski said:

Thanks for the additional info and  photo.  Yes, it is now clear.  The way I interpreted your original sentence (which I quoted) was that you were firmly pushing the inner part of the fixture into the cylinder.  But now that I know that it is the tire being firmly pushed onto the tapered end of the fixture, it makes perfect sense.

Now I see how the inner surface of the cylinder guides the pen's tip around the tire.  That results in the stripe being close to the outer diameter of the tires.  Most narrow white walls I have encountered have the white stripe about half way on the sidewall. There is probably an easy way to change the pen's offset from the cylinders inner wall, to paint the stripe closer to the center of the tire.

I'm also curious about the marks scratched onto the top surfaces of the fixture.

This was made to accommodate a number of tires with different radii. I mostly use 1:20 F 1 rain tires for my hotrods.  They have a larger diameter than the tire pictured(AMT 69 GTO kit).  You are right, there is probably a way to do that such as tape on the inside of the jig or around the tip of the pen.  I think I would use a small section of brass tubing over the tip of the pen to give that smaller size.  I think I could make inserts to fit in the top.  As I said, I have no intentions of making any more, so it works for me. 

The scratch marks are there to allow me to remove the tire to let it dry and then put it back in to put a color stipe over the top of the white.  I have found that the inside and outside edges of many tires are not concentric.  This way when it goes back in, the jig is aligned as it was previously.  

[peteski]

Thanks Pete!

[Oldmopars]

On 7/20/2022 at 10:08 PM, Pete J. said:

This was made to accommodate a number of tires with different radii. I mostly use 1:20 F 1 rain tires for my hotrods.  They have a larger diameter than the tire pictured(AMT 69 GTO kit).  You are right, there is probably a way to do that such as tape on the inside of the jig or around the tip of the pen.  I think I would use a small section of brass tubing over the tip of the pen to give that smaller size.  I think I could make inserts to fit in the top.  As I said, I have no intentions of making any more, so it works for me. 

The scratch marks are there to allow me to remove the tire to let it dry and then put it back in to put a color stipe over the top of the white.  I have found that the inside and outside edges of many tires are not concentric.  This way when it goes back in, the jig is aligned as it was previously.  

I would be interested in the plans. I think I could 3D print something that would work well. I don't have a mill or lathe, but I do have a printer. 

[Pete J.]

10 hours ago, Oldmopars said:

I would be interested in the plans. I think I could 3D print something that would work well. I don't have a mill or lathe, but I do have a printer. 

Send me a PM with your email and I will send you a JPEG that I did on sketchup.