Grand Prix Engine Question

[Perspect Scale Modelworks]

I recently got a hold of a 1970 Pontiac Grand Prix SJ. It looks to be the MPC kit. The engine the model came with is not very detailed and is missing the air cleaner, valve covers and oil pan. The exhaust manifolds look like they were glued on backwards.

I'd like to find a nice looking 455 V8 engine for this build.

Does anyone know what kit would have the best representation of that engine? Or, is there a good aftermarket resin or 3D out there?

I'd also like to replace the stock hubcaps with a nice set of 15" Pontiac Rally 2 wheels. 

Thanks 

[larman]

The Revell '68 Firebird has a nice Pontiac V8, a 400, but would look the same as a 455. Fireball Modelworks has a really nice set of Rally 2 wheels.

[Oldcarfan27]

9 hours ago, larman said:

The Revell '68 Firebird has a nice Pontiac V8, a 400, but would look the same as a 455.

It should look the same. Externally, they look identical. All the goods are inside!

And yes, those exhaust manifolds are on backwards!!! ?

Jay, did you get all the ski gear with the kit? I got a glue bomb 70 years ago and the builder glued the rack on the roof - ruining the vinyl top details. He also glued on all the pimp paraphernalia, the side pipes, hood bulges (retro-spare tire covers?) and the spare tire on the trunk. Mine was a mess, but it was cheap. Still trying to piece it back together. 

[espo]

An idea if you want to stay with this engine and add valve covers and an oil pan. One thing I noticed looking at the pictures is that whoever originally put this engine together mounted the heads and intake manifold croaked. Disassembly might be a little labor intensive, but it would be rewarding and a money saver as well. 

[Perspect Scale Modelworks]

On 10/6/2022 at 4:33 PM, larman said:

The Revell '68 Firebird has a nice Pontiac V8, a 400, but would look the same as a 455. Fireball Modelworks has a really nice set of Rally 2 wheels.

Thanks Larry. I sent an email to Fireball to order a set of the 14" and 15" Rallys.

I'm watching a couple of '68 Firebirds on ebay. There doesn't seem to be a lot of them out there and can be a bit pricey. 

 

[Perspect Scale Modelworks]

16 hours ago, Oldcarfan27 said:

It should look the same. Externally, they look identical. All the goods are inside!

And yes, those exhaust manifolds are on backwards!!! ?

Jay, did you get all the ski gear with the kit? I got a glue bomb 70 years ago and the builder glued the rack on the roof - ruining the vinyl top details. He also glued on all the pimp paraphernalia, the side pipes, hood bulges (retro-spare tire covers?) and the spare tire on the trunk. Mine was a mess, but it was cheap. Still trying to piece it back together. 

Hey Patrick. There were no extra parts with this one. Fortunately it's more of a glue firecracker than a glue bomb. I was able to separate a few parts, including the hood, with a mini screwdriver. No paint so no striping needed.

[Perspect Scale Modelworks]

9 hours ago, espo said:

An idea if you want to stay with this engine and add valve covers and an oil pan. One thing I noticed looking at the pictures is that whoever originally put this engine together mounted the heads and intake manifold croaked. Disassembly might be a little labor intensive, but it would be rewarding and a money saver as well. 

Dave, I thought about that. I would still need to source the valve covers and oil pan.

I have an engine from a '69 Olds 442. I'll take a look at it and see if it can pass. I'd still need a Pontiac air cleaner though.

[StevenGuthmiller]

3 hours ago, Perspective Customs said:

Dave, I thought about that. I would still need to source the valve covers and oil pan.

I have an engine from a '69 Olds 442. I'll take a look at it and see if it can pass. I'd still need a Pontiac air cleaner though.

The Olds and Pontiac engines are about as similar as a big block Chevy would be to a Mopar slant 6.

If you’re not too picky, there are a lot of Pontiac engines out there that would be a starting point. 
The only real hang up is the single 4bbl intake.

Check the MPC ‘69 Firebird kit.

 

 

 

Steve

[Bucky]

Would any of the MPC 70's era TransAm engines work for this project?

[Bills72sj]

Good luck with your GP. I made a replica of one I had for a work beater without all the rust the 1:1 had.

[Perspect Scale Modelworks]

18 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

The Olds and Pontiac engines are about as similar as a big block Chevy would be to a Mopar slant 6.

If you’re not too picky, there are a lot of Pontiac engines out there that would be a starting point. 
The only real hang up is the single 4bbl intake.

Check the MPC ‘69 Firebird kit.

 

 

 

Steve

Thanks Steve. I figured GM engines of the era would be similar but apparently not 

I found an engine from the Revell '70 Firebird on ebay so hopefully that will be a good starting point.

[Perspect Scale Modelworks]

15 hours ago, Bills72sj said:

Good luck with your GP. I made a replica of one I had for a work beater without all the rust the 1:1 had.

Good looking GP. What color did you use on the engine? I'm considering a mix of light blue and silver.

[Bills72sj]

6 hours ago, Perspective Customs said:

Good looking GP. What color did you use on the engine? I'm considering a mix of light blue and silver.

Jar of Model Master Pontiac engine blue.

[Fat Brian]

The Revell 66 GTO and AMT 62 Catalina are much easier kits to find than the 68 Firebird. The GTO has a Tri-power intake and the Catalina has two four barrels so not stock for a GP but either is a cool upgrade.

[Oldcarfan27]

18 hours ago, Perspective Customs said:

Thanks Steve. I figured GM engines of the era would be similar but apparently not 

I found an engine from the Revell '70 Firebird on ebay so hopefully that will be a good starting point.

That should work fine. It's 1/24, but for 1/25 it would look large enough to fill the bay like the 1:1 does.

I think the Revell engine was slightly undersized anyway.

[StevenGuthmiller]

4 hours ago, Fat Brian said:

The Revell 66 GTO and AMT 62 Catalina are much easier kits to find than the 68 Firebird. The GTO has a Tri-power intake and the Catalina has two four barrels so not stock for a GP but either is a cool upgrade.

Either engine would be a good choice, but there might be some pulley and belt differences between them and the '69 engine.

All that would be needed is a single 4 bbl intake, (the one from the '69 Firebird would work) A Fireball Quadrojet carb, and an air cleaner from another kit. (probably will need modifications to appear stock).

 

In all honesty, the MPC '70 Grand Prix engine compartment needs a whole lot of work to look remotely stock anyway.

The fender wells are way too narrow, (a huge gap between the inner wheel well and the fender) the radiator brace/shroud area aren't even close to accurate, and of course there's no air conditioning parts detail, which as far as I know was a standard feature on all Grand Prix's from this era.

 

When I build my '69, it's going to get a whole lot of engine, engine bay and chassis upgrades.

A lot of the chassis and engine bay parts can be had by raiding the AMT '70 Monte Carlo, and '68 El Camino kits.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[espo]

22 hours ago, Perspective Customs said:

Thanks Steve. I figured GM engines of the era would be similar but apparently not 

I found an engine from the Revell '70 Firebird on ebay so hopefully that will be a good starting point.

This looks like a great solution for an engine. The picture shows what would have been an air cleaner for a high output engine with a closed crank case vent system. Your glue bomb engines exhaust manifolds are of the more desirable design if they can somehow be saved. The front pullies look nice and close together for clearance. 

[Perspect Scale Modelworks]

On 10/8/2022 at 11:50 PM, Bills72sj said:

Jar of Model Master Pontiac engine blue.

I can't find anywhere that has Model Master in stock. Scalefinishes seems to have the right color.

[Perspect Scale Modelworks]

On 10/9/2022 at 11:23 AM, Oldcarfan27 said:

That should work fine. It's 1/24, but for 1/25 it would look large enough to fill the bay like the 1:1 does.

I think the Revell engine was slightly undersized anyway.

I agree.

[Perspect Scale Modelworks]

On 10/9/2022 at 12:58 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

Either engine would be a good choice, but there might be some pulley and belt differences between them and the '69 engine.

All that would be needed is a single 4 bbl intake, (the one from the '69 Firebird would work) A Fireball Quadrojet carb, and an air cleaner from another kit. (probably will need modifications to appear stock).

 

In all honesty, the MPC '70 Grand Prix engine compartment needs a whole lot of work to look remotely stock anyway.

The fender wells are way too narrow, (a huge gap between the inner wheel well and the fender) the radiator brace/shroud area aren't even close to accurate, and of course there's no air conditioning parts detail, which as far as I know was a standard feature on all Grand Prix's from this era.

 

When I build my '69, it's going to get a whole lot of engine, engine bay and chassis upgrades.

A lot of the chassis and engine bay parts can be had by raiding the AMT '70 Monte Carlo, and '68 El Camino kits.

 

 

 

 

Steve

You're right Steve. The engine bay is going to take some work. Thanks for the Monte and El Camino but I'm curious as to what parts you would use from the El Camino.

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, Perspective Customs said:

You're right Steve. The engine bay is going to take some work. Thanks for the Monte and El Camino but I'm curious as to what parts you would use from the El Camino.

Mostly belts/pulleys/air conditioning parts.

 

The Monte Carlo has the compressor on the driver's side, while the El Camino has it on the passenger's side, which is correct for the Grand Prix.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[Bills72sj]

Steve is correct on his input. I have own 7 1:1 Grand Prixs from 70-72. My 70 was a low option car that did not come from the factory with A/C but this is rare. Of the 400's and 455's I have had, the 400's has single snorkel air cleaners and the 455's had twin snorkel air cleaners. The power steering pump is low on the drivers side. The alternator is high on the drivers side. The A/C compressor is medium high on the passenger side. The kit's fan shroud and hood latch area is WAY wrong.

[Perspect Scale Modelworks]

23 hours ago, Bills72sj said:

Steve is correct on his input. I have own 7 1:1 Grand Prixs from 70-72. My 70 was a low option car that did not come from the factory with A/C but this is rare. Of the 400's and 455's I have had, the 400's has single snorkel air cleaners and the 455's had twin snorkel air cleaners. The power steering pump is low on the drivers side. The alternator is high on the drivers side. The A/C compressor is medium high on the passenger side. The kit's fan shroud and hood latch area is WAY wrong.

Thanks Bill for the info and great pics.