Alclad Help?

[noname]

Can some one help me with an Alclad Chrome issue? Why is it rubbing off? I did use Alclad's black as a base.  It left it to dry about 48 hours.  I understand that you can lightly buff it to get a better shine. When I do this it comes off.  Could too much  chrome cause this?  I'm afraid I may have put it on a little thick as it wasn't super shiny.  Thanks.

[LL3 Model Worx]

1 minute ago, noname said:

Can some one help me with an Alclad Chrome issue? Why is it rubbing off? I did use Alclad's black as a base.  It left it to dry about 48 hours.  I understand that you can lightly buff it to get a better shine. When I do this it comes off.  Could too much  chrome cause this?  I'm afraid I may have put it on a little thick as it wasn't super shiny.  Thanks.

Make sure you spray at low psi and remember that less is more... if you spray too much it loses the chrome effect and turns more of a brushed aluminum look.

I personally have never buffed Alclad, that's not to say it can't be buffed it is lacquer paint.

As far as it rubbing off, it's not a very durable coating on its own... shouldn't be handled frequently or with bare hands.

They do make a sealer for it, but it kinda changes the look to my eyes.

Also, as far as shine and durability, I personally get better results spraying the chrome over the black base almost immediately after the black is applied... though some may disagree with this practice. It seems to me the two kind of bond to one another vs the chrome just sitting on top of a slick surface.

Hope this helps.

 

[Dpate]

The glossier and smoother the black base is the better the chrome effect will be.  12-15 PSI light mist coats is what you want, and depending on how you spray it can dust up on you which isn't a bad thing because that can be buffed off using a Q-tip.  You can buff alclad chrome, but no to much because it will rub off.  If you're trying to buff it too a shine than you're doing it wrong. A smaller needle helps to spray it too like a .2, but a .35 or .5 will work too just be easy on the trigger.  I still use alclad chrome, but there are better alternatives out there that are lot more durable than alclad.  But no matter what chrome paint it is they pretty much all spray the same, and the smoother and glossier your base is the better the chrome effect will be.  

[noname]

Thanks for your comments guys.  Watching some videos confirms everything you are saying. The only thing is that many show a light buff with a soft rag increases the shine where as mine rubbed off even with a light touch.  I think perhaps my heavy hand was the issue.  I will try again and pay closer attention to when it starts looking like chrome and resist any "just one more pass" impulses.

I am curious Dpate, what other chrome paints you prefer more?  Seems Molotow chrome is impressing people these days.

[LL3 Model Worx]

9 minutes ago, noname said:

Thanks for your comments guys.  Watching some videos confirms everything you are saying. The only thing is that many show a light buff with a soft rag increases the shine where as mine rubbed off even with a light touch.  I think perhaps my heavy hand was the issue.  I will try again and pay closer attention to when it starts looking like chrome and resist any "just one more pass" impulses.

I am curious Dpate, what other chrome paints you prefer more?  Seems Molotow chrome is impressing people these days.

I know you didn't ask me, but I'll offer my 2 cents.

Spaz stix (basically the same as alclad)

AK Super Chrome (basically the same as Molotow ink)

Molotow (preferably the refill bottle airbrushed the pens don't work for me)

C1 metalizer powder is my absolute favorite chrome effect but kinda obscure and hard to get.

There are others, but these are what I'm personally familiar with.

 

[Dpate]

3 hours ago, noname said:

Thanks for your comments guys.  Watching some videos confirms everything you are saying. The only thing is that many show a light buff with a soft rag increases the shine where as mine rubbed off even with a light touch.  I think perhaps my heavy hand was the issue.  I will try again and pay closer attention to when it starts looking like chrome and resist any "just one more pass" impulses.

I am curious Dpate, what other chrome paints you prefer more?  Seems Molotow chrome is impressing people these days.

To add what LL3 said including kustom service chrome which you can get from newtype.com (Stays out of stock though its that good).  I only spray alclad, spazstix, and kustom service.  AK super chrome is fantastic too but i only use that for brush painting, and molotow is good but without a dehrydrator you'll be waiting forever for it to dry.  Spaz stix and kustom service is more durable than alclad, but chrome is a funny thing because you'll use one chrome and think its the best thing ever, and than try another and think the same thing after doing a comparison.  It really boils down to trying different chromes and finding one that you like the look of and works for you, and alclad is a great choice if sprayed properly it looks fantastic, but is little less durable than others.  

Your issue is kind of weird because you said you let it dry for 48 hours which is way more than enough for the black base and alclad chrome to dry.  Even though you let it dry that long maybe it didn't dry fully for some reason, and try not to go heavy on the gloss black base from alclad it doesn't take much to get a good gloss from it.  Good lighting helps also when spray chrome, and good angles. You can use tamiya LP or TS gloss black as well and some folks even use humbrols gloss black.  You can buff alclad because even though it's delicate, its not that delicate to where it comes off that easy like yours did.  Sounds like some testing is needed, but you probably buff too hard lol.  Good fiber cloth or Q-tip for small parts and light gentle buffs can get you little extra shine, and if some does happen to rub off for some reason you can respray light mist coats.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Dpate

[peteski]

If the metallic layer can be easily rubbed of when buffing sounds to me like the Alclad is going on too dry (not too heavy), and is  not sticking to the gloss undercoat.  Like it is dusted on, not going on wet. 

I haven't airbrushed Alclad chrome for some time, but I seem to recall that when I airbrushed it, when it hits the undercoat surface (directly under the airbrush nozzle) it looks like dull silver, but as I move on, the dull silver turns shiny and mirror-like as it dries.

Edited December 6, 2022 by peteski

[LL3 Model Worx]

Going on too dry could certainly be a problem... usually from either too much psi and or spraying from too far a distance.

Seriously though, try spraying the chrome just after you spray the black, while it's still wet. It will increase the wear characteristics greatly once fully dry because the chrome adheres to the tacky black much better.

 

[Bugatti Fan]

C1 Metallized Powder is really good. Buff it onto a gloss black and it will come up really well. It also is much more durable than the spray on chrome finishes and much more forgiving when handled. It is good stuff to experiment with over other gloss and matt colour finishes to obtain different aluminium effects.

C1 is a UK company and has a website. They do some really nice resin trans kits too. Their latest trans kits are for versions of the James Bond 'Spectre' Land Rovers to convert the Revell Kit. They also make a trans kit to convert the Revell Land Rover into a pickup with optional tow crane.

[LL3 Model Worx]

4 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

C1 Metallized Powder is really good. Buff it onto a gloss black and it will come up really well. It also is much more durable than the spray on chrome finishes and much more forgiving when handled. It is good stuff to experiment with over other gloss and matt colour finishes to obtain different aluminium effects.

C1 is a UK company and has a website. They do some really nice resin trans kits too. Their latest trans kits are for versions of the James Bond 'Spectre' Land Rovers to convert the Revell Kit. They also make a trans kit to convert the Revell Land Rover into a pickup with optional tow crane.

I've only got a little bit of it left... and now I can't get the website to work for me. So I've gotta conserve.

But yes I have found it to be much more durable for sure.

[CabDriver]

I like to shoot my Alclad when the black base is still a little tacky - not WET, but slightly sticky.

My theory is that it helps the Alclad stick a little better, but I have no scientific proof that that works…but I don’t have a bunch of trouble with Alclad being too fragile to handle generally (within reason…)

[noname]

Well, I've heard of the Spaz Stix but have never seen it. Maybe it is not readily available here in Canada. I've tried the Molotow pen. I've  actually found I can chrome small pieces with it as it levels out quite well.  Spraying Molotow, from what I've seen, looks quite promising. I should look further into the AK Chrome as this product isn't too hard to purchase.  The Kustom Service Chrome is new to my ears. I have seen videos using the powders.  They also look promising but not sure where you get the stuff. Thanks for the additional ideas. If the Alclad doesn't pan out for me I'll try another.

My Alclad is several years old, so maybe that has something to do with it.  I had shaken the bottle but did not stir it.  Will try that. Also I think the idea of lighting is a serious issue. I believe because I was under ideal lighting I may have sprayed to much turning it into a more aluminum finish. I think it has to be thin enough for the black base to show through in order to get the proper chrome look.  I should try to paint a little closer to the model part as suggested.  I remember years ago when I first tried Alclad Chrome hearing some people say to paint chrome before black is completely dry.  However, I recently watched a video of a guy who works for Alcad advising to let the black dry so you can buff it to a high shine (wiping off over spray) before applying the chrome. It's funny how easy some people make it look and how much trouble the rest of us have. Gosh wouldn't it be nice if the model companies remedied their chrome so it looked proper right out of the box. I bet they'd sell a boat load more kits that way!

[Dpate]

26 minutes ago, noname said:

Well, I've heard of the Spaz Stix but have never seen it. Maybe it is not readily available here in Canada. I've tried the Molotow pen. I've  actually found I can chrome small pieces with it as it levels out quite well.  Spraying Molotow, from what I've seen, looks quite promising. I should look further into the AK Chrome as this product isn't too hard to purchase.  The Kustom Service Chrome is new to my ears. I have seen videos using the powders.  They also look promising but not sure where you get the stuff. Thanks for the additional ideas. If the Alclad doesn't pan out for me I'll try another.

My Alclad is several years old, so maybe that has something to do with it.  I had shaken the bottle but did not stir it.  Will try that. Also I think the idea of lighting is a serious issue. I believe because I was under ideal lighting I may have sprayed to much turning it into a more aluminum finish. I think it has to be thin enough for the black base to show through in order to get the proper chrome look.  I should try to paint a little closer to the model part as suggested.  I remember years ago when I first tried Alclad Chrome hearing some people say to paint chrome before black is completely dry.  However, I recently watched a video of a guy who works for Alcad advising to let the black dry so you can buff it to a high shine (wiping off over spray) before applying the chrome. It's funny how easy some people make it look and how much trouble the rest of us have. Gosh wouldn't it be nice if the model companies remedied their chrome so it looked proper right out of the box. I bet they'd sell a boat load more kits that way!

Well never said it was easy, but it is easier than most things we do in this hobby.  You just have to keep trying until you get that eureka moment, and you don't want to much black showing through - because than it'll look like black chrome.  I'm not sure the shelf life of alclad chrome, but I'm sure if it was kept properly it should last a very long time. Once you get the hang of it you'll always know how to spray a chrome paint because there all pretty similar when it comes to spraying, and really ANY metal paint like brass, copper, etc.  Maybe you should try and get a new bottle of alclad and see what happens? I love chroming parts, and I'm like you but the opposite lol.  I wish they would stop putting chrome on the parts period, and let us do our own chrome, and we know that'll never happen.   I would do a test spoon before calling the bottle of alclad bad though.  

Edited December 4, 2022 by Dpate

[bytownshaker]

2 hours ago, noname said:

Well, I've heard of the Spaz Stix but have never seen it. Maybe it is not readily available here in Canada. I've tried the Molotow pen. I've  actually found I can chrome small pieces with it as it levels out quite well.  Spraying Molotow, from what I've seen, looks quite promising. I should look further into the AK Chrome as this product isn't too hard to purchase.  The Kustom Service Chrome is new to my ears. I have seen videos using the powders.  They also look promising but not sure where you get the stuff. Thanks for the additional ideas. If the Alclad doesn't pan out for me I'll try another.

My Alclad is several years old, so maybe that has something to do with it.  I had shaken the bottle but did not stir it.  Will try that. Also I think the idea of lighting is a serious issue. I believe because I was under ideal lighting I may have sprayed to much turning it into a more aluminum finish. I think it has to be thin enough for the black base to show through in order to get the proper chrome look.  I should try to paint a little closer to the model part as suggested.  I remember years ago when I first tried Alclad Chrome hearing some people say to paint chrome before black is completely dry.  However, I recently watched a video of a guy who works for Alcad advising to let the black dry so you can buff it to a high shine (wiping off over spray) before applying the chrome. It's funny how easy some people make it look and how much trouble the rest of us have. Gosh wouldn't it be nice if the model companies remedied their chrome so it looked proper right out of the box. I bet they'd sell a boat load more kits that way!

Hi Matthew, I bought some Spaz Stix in Ottawa  Ontario at a local hobby shop.

 

[noname]

Good to know Edgar, that means a local shop can likely order it.

Dusty that is true, if they at least left the chrome off it would then make chroming easier.  Sometimes that junk under neath the chrome is the hardest to get off.  I will use the kit chrome here and there if it is decent.  But even if the chrome is good I don't like the unrealistic mold lines found often on the side of the bumpers. Over the years I have a had a couple of kits that for some reason had a more realistic, that is not so bright, chrome. And I've noticed some kits at least have the bumper sprue attachment points under the bumper where it can't cause much trouble.

[Dpate]

7 hours ago, noname said:

Good to know Edgar, that means a local shop can likely order it.

Dusty that is true, if they at least left the chrome off it would then make chroming easier.  Sometimes that junk under neath the chrome is the hardest to get off.  I will use the kit chrome here and there if it is decent.  But even if the chrome is good I don't like the unrealistic mold lines found often on the side of the bumpers. Over the years I have a had a couple of kits that for some reason had a more realistic, that is not so bright, chrome. And I've noticed some kits at least have the bumper sprue attachment points under the bumper where it can't cause much trouble.

Yeah that underlayer varnish can be tricky to remove on older kits, but not too bad on newer reissued kits.  Speaking of mold lines the current kit I'm working on is littered with thick mold lines, excess plastic on the parts, flash on top of the mold lines, flash on top of the flash lol.  I've spent 3 days so far just cleaning parts, etc and I'm yet to shoot a coat of primer lol.  It's a 2013 kit, but original mold is from 1963 and this kit has had about 12 or so reissues so it's not surprising coming from AMT.  The chrome is bad too, and has to be cleaned etc etc too, but it's not a super bad kit fitment is pretty good, but i would NOT recommend it to a beginner at all just because of all the extra cleaning and test fitting and cleaning and test fitting.

[gman]

22 hours ago, noname said:

Well, I've heard of the Spaz Stix but have never seen it. Maybe it is not readily available here in Canada.

The last can I bought was found in Burnaby (BC) years ago. I don't believe I have seen it since. Hobby shops that carry RC car bodies and supplies would be where I would focus the search.

https://www.pmhobbycraft.ca/mirror-chrome-paint-aerosol.html

Amazon has it too- at more than double the price ?

https://www.amazon.ca/Spaz-Stix-Ultimate-Aerosol-3-5-Ounce/dp/B0015H1FGA

[Dpate]

58 minutes ago, gman said:

The last can I bought was found in Burnaby (BC) years ago. I don't believe I have seen it since. Hobby shops that carry RC car bodies and supplies would be where I would focus the search.

https://www.pmhobbycraft.ca/mirror-chrome-paint-aerosol.html

Amazon has it too- at more than double the price ?

https://www.amazon.ca/Spaz-Stix-Ultimate-Aerosol-3-5-Ounce/dp/B0015H1FGA

Yeah i get mine from hobby town near there RC section

[noname]

Okay thanks, I like that it comes in a spray can.  Ouch!, that Amazon price hurts.

[Bugatti Fan]

Leroy in Tenessee

re. C1 Polishing Powder, I understand you are having problems locating their website.

Have another go at a web search and put in.      C1 Models.    This should find it for you.

Once you get onto it you will find that they have a very nice range of resin trans kits. The James Bond 'Spectre' inspired trans kits to use the Revell Land Rover as a donor kit look quite spectacular.

[LL3 Model Worx]

12 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

Leroy in Tenessee

re. C1 Polishing Powder, I understand you are having problems locating their website.

Have another go at a web search and put in.      C1 Models.    This should find it for you.

Once you get onto it you will find that they have a very nice range of resin trans kits. The James Bond 'Spectre' inspired trans kits to use the Revell Land Rover as a donor kit look quite spectacular.

Thanks. I was just having trouble getting their site to work... I can't get the checkout page to load. But no worries I can get around that when the time comes.