Badger 105 Patroit needle

[dragstk]

I am kinda new to the air brush situation. I started out with a $35.00 Master dual action. And have been getting better results. So about a year ago, I bought a Badger 105 Patriot. And for some reason Ive struggled to get the same results as I have with the Master. One day when I pulled it apart, I noticed that the needle (blue) had a slight bend in it about 1 1/2"down from the tip. Thinking that this might have been the problem, I got a new needle. Looks straight when I got it, now has the same warp. So I put my silver needle in. (See picture) what ever needle I put in, it always slightly rubs at the top of the body.

Is this normal? Is it possible the body of the 105 is machined wrong or its bent? Or is this a case of the 2 air brushes I have are different enough, that I need to just learn more about the Badger?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Jon Haigwood]

4 minutes ago, dragstk said:

I am kinda new to the air brush situation. I started out with a $35.00 Master dual action. And have been getting better results. So about a year ago, I bought a Badger 105 Patriot. And for some reason Ive struggled to get the same results as I have with the Master. One day when I pulled it apart, I noticed that the needle (blue) had a slight bend in it about 1 1/2"down from the tip. Thinking that this might have been the problem, I got a new needle. Looks straight when I got it, now has the same warp. So I put my silver needle in. (See picture) what ever needle I put in, it always slightly rubs at the top of the body.

Is this normal? Is it possible the body of the 105 is machined wrong or its bent? Or is this a case of the 2 air brushes I have are different enough, that I need to just learn more about the Badger?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

I would contact Badger for answers, If the airbrush is defective they may fix it or replace it

[Bainford]

Not normal at all. Something very wrong there. Something is bent or out of alignment, or assembled wrong. A bend 1.5” back from the tip would put it at the needle bushing. Looking at the photo, something is definitely out of whack. 
 

The back of the body itself could be bent and holding the needle off centre, but it looks deeper than that. On mine, the needle is biased to the bottom, but not by any force. Reaching through the window, the needle wiggles up and down effortlessly. 

Remove the back of the body and check the concentricity of the needle holder assembly to the housing. Everything should be centred. 

Look deeper for bent parts, especially in the needle holder/trigger area. The head is pretty robust on these, but worth checking for straightness there too. The airbrush may have been dropped at some point, even before you got it. 
 

[dragstk]

Thanks for the replies guys.

@ Jon-Do you think Badger would do anything? I dont have the receipt, even forgot where I bought it. It would be nice if they did something, but I feel it comes down to their word against mine, as to who is responcible

@Trevor-I took the back of the body off. There is no play at all when I try to wiggle the holder, right at the body. And it certainly looks like it is centered. It operate very smoothly. It takes more effort to center the needle in the back, than I want to put on it.

Any tips on checking straightness of the body?

Edited February 4, 2023 by dragstk

[dragstk]

Jon-you were on to something. I googled around and found a couple of sites that says that Badger has a lifetime replacement on the needle bearing. So, Ive contacted Badger to see what they think

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction

[Dave G.]

I'd go by the spray pattern, is the paint or even the look of spraying water out, even all the way around ?

As to Badger, they're pretty easy to work with. There has been more than one 105 owner on here with some sort of problem that Badger either fixed or swapped out a replacement.

[TarheelRick]

Badger will repair any of their airbrushes at any time. I have two different Badgers, one I have had for more than 40 years.  I dropped the new one and bent the tip of the needle. Badger told me to send it back and the repair would be free if it didn't require any parts.  I sent both of them back, they did a thorough cleaning of the older one, and replaced the needle on the newer one, plus giving it a good cleaning, all at no charge other than shipping costs. They told me on the needle replacement that they had several surplus needles, and it wouldn't cost me anything to replace it. They are a stand-up company.

[DPNM]

Out of curiosity, have you checked to see if it is perhaps the handle that is off center?

[dragstk]

@DPNM-I did wonder about that, but I dont know how to check it. And if it hadn't warped/bent 2 needles, I might have ignored it.

@Dave G.-I cant seem to get a consistent spray pattern. Sometimes it works good, sometimes it either just dumps paint or it goes thin. Almost depends on the day or something ?

Im going to send it back and get it fixed.

Thanks to all who took the time to answer

[DPNM]

Since you are sending it back, please update us on what the issue was, provided they tell you.

[Bainford]

5 hours ago, dragstk said:

 

@Trevor-I took the back of the body off. There is no play at all when I try to wiggle the holder, right at the body. And it certainly looks like it is centered. It operate very smoothly. It takes more effort to center the needle in the back, than I want to put on it.

Any tips on checking straightness of the body?

Nothing specific, just a good visual inspection, sighting along the assembled airbrush and checking concentricity of parts. Looking at your photo it appears as though the needle collet is jammed against the body, too. Might just be the photo angle though. 
Either way, your decision to contact Badger is the right one. As others have said, they are very good to deal with. Curious to know what the problem is, when you get it sorted. 

[dragstk]

I will ask Badger to let me know what the issue is. I am curious myself

[dragstk]

So I just got my air brush back from Badger today. It was gone a month. I mailed it out 2/6. They received it 2/10. The $21.00 bench fee/shipping check cleared the bank on 2/14. Then radio silence

I called them on 2/27. I was told they would start repairing it that week and they would give me a call on 3/3, to settle up if there was any costs. No call on 3/3 or 3/4.

On 3/4, I get an e mail from Badger saying that a shipping label was printed. I checked the tracking several times and it showed no movement. Yet, it arrived today.

They said they cleaned and serviced it. They installed a new needle bearing and a new plunger. No cost to me. But it came back the warped needle I sent it with, no new needle. And the needle still sits like in my original picture.

I havent used it yet, but I really dont know what to think about all this.

[DPNM]

I've waited for others to make suggestions but, so far, none have. If you'd like I'll try to help you sort it out so at least it may be usable. I will have a number of questions.

[dragstk]

Thanks Jim, I sent you a pm

[DPNM]

One thing before you test it.

You said you replaced the needle with one of a different color. Did you replace the nozzle and air cap that match the needle you put in? If you didn't it will not spray right. The needles are color coded for various sizes and the nozzle and air cap have to match.

Edited March 10, 2023 by DPNM

[dragstk]

@Jim Yes, I do make sure I change the nozzle when I change the needle. I do have all 3 sizes. I got all 3 thinking it might help me out.

[Bill Eh?]

Jeff, before you did the latest swap to a new needle/nozzle combination, were you able to first verify that the new needle being installed was perfectly straight?

[dragstk]

Yes, I did check the new needle before I installed it. My check of the needle straightness was to roll the needle across my desk. If I didnt see any wobble, then I assumed it was straight enough

[Bill Eh?]

I know that my question might have seemed silly or even redundant. The reason I asked was to determine if the airbrush body causes the needle to flex/bend once it is installed and left in the airbush for a while.

[dragstk]

No, your question was not silly. If you dont know something, you have to ask.

One thing I have noticed since I have gotten the air brush back, is there is a slight catch as I start to pull back for paint. I didnt notice this before but maybe Im noticing it now because Im focused on it.

The catch was clearly coming from the trigger against the the curved piece behind the trigger. I lightly sanded each piece with 1500, the a drop of Badger lube. and it works really smoothly now

I hope to have some spray time this week, to see if anything has changed

[Bill Eh?]

Good to know that the Regdab helped lubricate the contact between the back trigger lever and the trigger shaft. I would be interested to hear how your airbrushing session goes. Fingers crossed.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Bill Eh?
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[dragstk]

Well, I did spray today. If I was using it for full coverage, like with primer, it did spray well. But it still has a light switch trigger. Its either full bore or nothing. No amount of changing air pressure or changing the tension on the trigger made a difference. There is no way I can spray small dots or fine lines. Imjust going to use this for primer or painting chassis. Im kinda frustrated with this brush and the service I got at Badger.

While my Badger was out getting serviced, I bought a Creos PS-289. The 2nd time using it, just practicing, I could spray fine lines. They are ugly, but thats just I need practice. So I think I have an idea of the "feel" needed. But I cant make the Badger do it.

Thank you to all of you that took time to write and offer suggestions

[Bainford]

10 hours ago, dragstk said:

Well, I did spray today. If I was using it for full coverage, like with primer, it did spray well. But it still has a light switch trigger. Its either full bore or nothing. No amount of changing air pressure or changing the tension on the trigger made a difference. There is no way I can spray small dots or fine lines. Imjust going to use this for primer or painting chassis. Im kinda frustrated with this brush and the service I got at Badger.

While my Badger was out getting serviced, I bought a Creos PS-289. The 2nd time using it, just practicing, I could spray fine lines. They are ugly, but thats just I need practice. So I think I have an idea of the "feel" needed. But I cant make the Badger do it.

Thank you to all of you that took time to write and offer suggestions

One thing to keep in mind is that the air trigger is meant to be on or off, no throttling. Since switching to a dual action airbrush a few years ago, I had to re-learn airbrush technique from what I used on my Badger 200 single action of 40 years. A key piece of advice I was given is to hold the air wide open as I make my passes, and just throttle the paint flow with the back & fourth action of the trigger (e.g. As I sweep past the car body, keep the air open but stop the paint flow, then on the return pass, reopen the paint flow, but keeping the air flowing the whole time). However, I find that my Badger 105 has all the finesse and controllability of a spray can. It shouts large quantities of paint and leaves a lot of overspray. I used it twice to paint a body, then put it away. It may become my primer airbrush. I don't know what size my needle is, but it doesn't matter. Fine work is not the forte of the Patriot 105.

After 40 years with a single-action/siphon-feed airbrush, I had become dual-action/gravity-feed curious. I bought my Badger 105 at the hobby shop on an impulse buy when the shop owner caught me looking at it and offered me 10% off on the spot. Though I wasn't happy with the 105, I did really like the dual action, and especially the gravity feed, so I splurged on the more expensive airbrush that I really wanted, and I am very happy with it. 

As for Badger, it's a shame you didn't get the results you were looking for. They really are a stand-up and respected company and generally provide a very good service to hobbyists.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Bainford

[dragstk]

Thanks Trevor. I completely agree with your assessment of the Badger. Maybe I am/was expecting to much from this air brush but I have seen videos of people doing good work with one.

I could get rudimentary dots and fine lines out of the $35.00 Master AB i have. Thinking I could do better with a better AB, I bought on 105, on reputation.

The thing that really bothered me about getting back my AB from Badger was that I got back the bent needle I sent it with. Its not that I didnt want to buy another one, I fully expected to. But my note explaining the issue was all about bending 2 needles. And it wasnt replaced? I find it hard to believe that it was within their tolerance.

Oh well. Like you, this will be my primer AB.

Thank you for your thoughts