Duplicolor Primer Sealer (DAP 1699) a good barrier for plastic bleeding through paint?

[crowe-t]

Is Duplicolor Primer Sealer (DAP 1699) good for stopping colored plastic from bleeding through lacquer?

Does it spray on smooth?

[StevenGuthmiller]

I couldn't tell you for sure if or not it will seal out colored plastic, but this is my go-to primer for every project.

I use it all of the time, and yes, it sprays on very smooth.

 

 

 

Steve

Edited February 22, 2023 by StevenGuthmiller

[Ace-Garageguy]

Just now, StevenGuthmiller said:

I couldn't tell you for sure if or not it will seal out colored plastic, but his is my go-to primer for every project.

I use it all of the time, and yes, it sprays on very smooth.

Can it be sanded, or does that defeat the "sealer" aspect?

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 minute ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Can it be sanded, or does that defeat the "sealer" aspect?

I sand it.

But I will usually add another coat after sanding and before paint.

 

I mostly like it because it's a lighter gray than Duplicolor sandable gray primer.

 

I suppose that I should probably suggest as the can says, to use it for sealing "primed surfaces", but I just use it like any other primer.

 

 

 

Steve

[crowe-t]

I have a model with orange plastic parts that I'll be painting with lacquer.  I don't want the orange to bleed through.  I'm hoping this stuff will prevent bleeding.

[crowe-t]

11 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I sand it.

But I will usually add another coat after sanding and before paint.

 

I mostly like it because it's a lighter gray than Duplicolor sandable gray primer.

 

I suppose that I should probably suggest as the can says, to use it for sealing "primed surfaces", but I just use it like any other primer.

 

 

 

Steve

I see on the Duplicolor website there's a light gray sandable primer DAP1688 but I haven't seen it for sale anywhere.  Maybe it's a new color coming out.

https://www.duplicolor.com/product/sandable-primer/

[peteski]

I love those vague and ambiguous product names.  I suspect that this stuff does not seal to prevent from dye bleed through, but it is just making the primer surface smoother for the subsequent color coat application.  After all, real cars (which is the intended use for this sealer) aren't made of red plastic but from metal. There is nothing to bleed through.

For our purposes, some modelers use silver paint as a barrier/sealer, others use Zinsser BIN primer sealer specifically designed for prevention of bleed through.

[Ace-Garageguy]

32 minutes ago, crowe-t said:

I see on the Duplicolor website there's a light gray sandable primer...

It's been around forever, but none of them are universally available all the time.

Besides the light gray, there's dark gray "hot rod primer", red oxide, black, and white in the "sandable" line.

They can all be too "hot" for some of today's garbage soft styrene formulations, causing surface crazing if shot too wet.

The "self etching" primers are generally hotter still.

The "scratch filling" line of primers are also sandable, but build quite high, possibly obscuring fine surface details.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

28 minutes ago, peteski said:

I love those vague and ambiguous product names.  I suspect that this stuff does not seal to prevent from dye bleed through, but it is just making the primer surface smoother for the subsequent color coat application.  After all, real cars (which is the intended use for this sealer) aren't made of red plastic but from metal. There is nothing to bleed through.

"Sealers" for real cars are intended to discourage solvent penetration from color coats into primers, which in turn reduces sand-scratch swelling and gloss "die-back" as the color shrinks.

They can also help prevent "feather edge" lifting, which can be a real nightmare when painting real cars over some unknown substrate.

This is why, in general, real-car "sealers" are not supposed to be sanded, as sanding tends to diminish the barrier effect.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Muncie]

I go with what Steve says, what he says is right on about Duplicolor 1699 and it is also my choice. I've learned a lot from his posts.

Primer sealer is a barrier layer and will seal color if it has enough coats.  I did a not very scientific sharpie test for another purpose.  The sharpie bled thru 2 to 3 coats, but 5 to 6 light coats if left to dry properly stopped it.  1699 goes on so smooth that it did not need sanding.  (enough coats that you cannot see the color below plus a couple more for good measure.) But if it is sanded, it should get a couple more coats before final color.  Basically, it's following the method in the paint manufacturer's instructions that was used for the old automotive primer sealers that I started out with model cars a very long time ago.

Automotive primer sealer is actually a barrier between whatever sins or materials are below and the final top coat colors.  At one time, auto body shops had to deal with refinishing cars painted at the factory with enamel (sometimes with multiple color replacement panels) using the new lacquer paints.  The lacquer could damage the enamel below so Primer Sealer was cheap insurance to having an unhappy  customer come back. Ditzler had a primer sealer that you could poor into the gun without thinner, would dry quick, didn't have to be sanded and was inexpensive.  Haven't done that kind of project in a long time so I know little about the current materials in the body shops today.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Muncie

[Dave Van]

Been using it longer than I can recall.  I use it for color block, sealer and just a primer.

I always sand coats with 1000, 4000, 6000 before I apply color. 

I find it a great paint.

3 coats of #1699 sanded.  Then with 3 coats of Tamiya TS-14

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

9 minutes ago, Dave Van said:

Been using it longer than I can recall.  I use it for color block, sealer and just a primer.

I always sand coats with 1000, 4000, 6000 before I apply color. 

I find it a great paint.

3 coats of #1699 sanded.  Then with 3 coats of Tamiya TS-14

As it's working for you and Steve, I'll give it a shot. Always nice to have another option in the box.

[crowe-t]

It is a sealer so I think it should help with color bleed through of the orange plastic.  I'll give it a try.

Hopefully someone here has used it as a sealer over orange, red or yellow plastic with success.  These colors seem to bleed through lacquer paints. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by crowe-t

[StevenGuthmiller]

18 minutes ago, crowe-t said:

It is a sealer so I think it should help with color bleed through of the orange plastic.  I'll give it a try.

Hopefully someone here has used it as a sealer over orange, red or yellow plastic with success.  These colors seem to bleed through lacquer paints. 

One thing that you should know, is that as is the case with most of Duplicolor’s primers, it doesn’t cover great, so what I do to insure color uniformity is to give the body a coat of Testors lacquer primer first to cover well, followed by several coats of the primer sealer.

Always works very well for me.

 

 

 

Steve

[Chariots of Fire]

I've had mixed results.  I used Duplicolor gray primer on both yellow and red plastic from the 1/32 scale Monogram Snap Kits.  I think it has more to do with the plastic than Duplicolor.  Sometimes the color showed through and on others it did not.  It was strange.

[peteski]

52 minutes ago, Chariots of Fire said:

I've had mixed results.  I used Duplicolor gray primer on both yellow and red plastic from the 1/32 scale Monogram Snap Kits.  I think it has more to do with the plastic than Duplicolor.  Sometimes the color showed through and on others it did not.  It was strange.

I don't think it is strange.  There are different formulations (or grades) of polystyrene, and types or brands of the dyes added to it, so different results are not unexpected.

 

What was used to make models 40 years ago in USA, can be different from a model made 20 years ago on USA. Then plastic mused in USA can be different a model molded in China, Poland, or Mexico. Then of course the plastic can be different even between different manufacturers (Revell, Monogram, AMT, etc.)

Edited February 23, 2023 by peteski

[Steve H]

Not sure how this paint is for blocking bleed thru, but it is a good primer for “hotter” automotive lacquer paints. I believe it was Kit Karson that posted that, or maybe RRR?… 

[Mark]

IMO the sealer primer dries leaving a smoother, less "pebbley" surface than other Duplicolor primers.  As for coverage, thorough shaking is an absolute must.  In recent years the products seem to have been cheapened by putting in less solid material in the can versus "carrier" (thinner).

Lately I have applied "filler primer" first when needed, sanding that, then applying sealer primer on top of that. The sealer does (for me, anyway) prevent the solvents in the color coats from attacking or penetrating the primer applied first.

[charlie8575]

On 2/22/2023 at 5:58 PM, crowe-t said:

I have a model with orange plastic parts that I'll be painting with lacquer.  I don't want the orange to bleed through.  I'm hoping this stuff will prevent bleeding.

I painted a car with red plastic the first time I used this, and it worked beautifully. In fact, I liked it enough that I use this pretty regularly for my primer.

Charlie Larkin