Enamel & Lacquer

[Jim B]

I always forget, is it never lacquer over enamel or the other way around?

[Ace-Garageguy]

Just now, Jim B said:

I always forget, is it never lacquer over enamel or the other way around?

Bingo.

[Jim B]

Thanks.  That's what I thought.

[Mark]

Sometimes not even enamel over enamel, or lacquer over lacquer.  One with a "hotter" solvent can still play havoc on whatever it is applied over.

With anything not specifically designed to work together (even products from the same manufacturer) the only way to know for sure is: test, test, and test again.

[Dave G.]

I like testing though, it's a hobby in itself for me. But lacquer over enamel for me there is no need to test. I had too many fails doing that back around 1977ish. Sometimes it takes me a bit to learn my lesson but once I get it it's gotten in to stay. Anyone can say whatever they want about lacquer over enamel and they had success and that's great. I had a few wins myself but sure enough it came around to bite me in the butt eventually.

[StevenGuthmiller]

Although there are generally followed rules, there are always exceptions to every rule.

For instance, some lacquers, such as Testors clear lacquer, can be used over enamels, and other paints as well.

Mild lacquers such as Testors won't harm enamel, at least in my experience.

I use Testors clear lacquer over enamel all of the time with no adverse affects whatsoever.

 

Granted, I don't use this combination on bodies, but everything else is fair game.

 

 

 

Steve

[ctruss53]

I'll add to this as well.

Yes, in nearly all cases, do not apply lacquers over enamels.

In some cases you can apply lacquers over enamels. A great example is I use Mr Super Clear UV Cut from Mr Hobby. I have not come across anything you can't spray that on top of. BUT, when I use Mr Super clear I always build it up in very light coats. So I could be getting away with it because of how I use it.

If you are trying new paint combos, always test them on plastic spoons or a junk body or something.  For every rule there are exceptions. But you won't know what the exceptions are unless you test them out.

Edited May 22, 2023 by ctruss53

[Jim B]

Thanks for all the info, guys.  I really appreciate it.

[1972coronet]

Tamiya's TS line of aerosols are synthetic lacquers. I have used them almost exclusively on bodies /interiors for over 20 years; sometimes over Tamiya's "fine" grey or white primers; other times over {{GASP}} Krylon or Dupli-Color primers -- zero issues. I'm fairly certain that the latter two are enamels; someone'll correct me if my info is incorrect. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

Duplicolor has tons of different primers, the most popular of which for modeling, are the automotive lacquer primers.

 

 

 

Steve

[vincen47]

This general guide is useful. I saved it to my photos. I don’t remember who originally posted it here on the forum, but a big thanks to them.

Edited May 23, 2023 by vincen47

[Jim B]

That helps a lot.  I'll probably print it & post it on my wall somewhere.

[ctruss53]

On 5/22/2023 at 8:43 PM, vincen47 said:

This general guide is useful. I saved it to my photos. I don’t remember who originally posted it here on the forum, but a big thanks to them.

This can't be right. I spray lacquer clear coat over acrylic paints all the time.

Edited May 24, 2023 by ctruss53

[Dave G.]

11 hours ago, ctruss53 said:

This can't be right. I spray lacquer clear coat over acrylic paints all the time.

Could depend on the acrylic used. But I agree, certainly lacquers goes over the water based acrylics at least. I've never tried hot clears over Tamiya acrylic but it goes over artist acrylics, craft paints and Vallejo easy enough.

I'm moving from clear lacquers on models, going more and more with Createx 4050 or 4053 and very pleased with the results. I still use lacquer over my wife's acrylic paintings though, in fact I'm clear coating one today.

[ctruss53]

1 hour ago, Dave G. said:

Could depend on the acrylic used. But I agree, certainly lacquers goes over the water based acrylics at least. I've never tried hot clears over Tamiya acrylic but it goes over artist acrylics, craft paints and Vallejo easy enough.

I'm moving from clear lacquers on models, going more and more with Createx 4050 or 4053 and very pleased with the results. I still use lacquer over my wife's acrylic paintings though, in fact I'm clear coating one today.

I use Mr Super Clear UV Cut almost exclusively, for clear coats. It is a lacquer from Mr Hobby.

I spray it over lacquer paints and I have used it over several acrylics. Mission Models, Vallejo, Createx, and Tamiya acrylics, just to name a few.

I also spray it over decals and BMF without issues.

[peteski]

With modelers using so many brands and types of paints (some made specifically for models, others not), there really aren't any hard set rules which one can follow 100% of the time.  Also the vague (or sometimes incorrect) naming conventions used by both the paint manufacturers, and modelers, things are even more confusing.

Years ago, when water-based solvent paints became popular, modelers just started calling all paints that aren't orgainc-solvent based (aka stinky) paints "acrylics".  While true that water-based paints are acrylic enamels (I never heard of water-based acrylic lacquers), on the other hand, there are also lots of both enamels and lacquers based on acrylic resin binder (which in this case is dissolved in organic [stinky] solvent).

All of this causes confusion, so it really makes sense for a modeler to try (on a test surface like old body, plastic spoon, or a plastic soda pop bottle) the combination of paints they are planning on using.

Edit: And before someone jumps all over me saying that the test surfaces (like spoons) are not the same plastic that the kit is made of, but still, it is better than not even trying the compatibility of multiple coats of various coatings.

Edited May 25, 2023 by peteski

[Oldriginal86]

There have been several threads on this forum that describe thinning or reducing enamel paint for shooting from an airbrush with lacquer thinner. My question is if the enamel was reduced with lacquer thinner and sprayed onto a surface, after curing, would it be safe to shoot lacquer thinned enamel onto it again to repair a scratch or blemish? 

[Ace-Garageguy]

11 minutes ago, Oldriginal86 said:

There have been several threads on this forum that describe thinning or reducing enamel paint for shooting from an airbrush with lacquer thinner. 

My question is if the enamel was reduced with lacquer thinner and sprayed onto a surface, after curing, would it be safe to shoot lacquer thinned enamel onto it again to repair a scratch or blemish? 

IIRC, it was Donn Yost who pioneered, or at least popularized, that technique many years ago, and I mean many.

Mr. Yost has lotsa how-to vids on YT, as well as books.

Your answer is surely to be found among them somewhere, grasshopper.  

Edited May 25, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy
TYPO

[Oldriginal86]

Thanks. I’ll have to look for his videos.