Anyone using the Dupli-Color 1K clear?

[Len Woodruff]

I have been using this paint decanted on several bodies.

I like the results but I have gotten a few fish eyes in a few places. 

Not sure why?

Any ideas?

Edited June 2, 2023 by Len Woodruff
add pic

[Mark]

I have used it straight from the can, and am satisfied with the results.

I don't know if it changes over time, but in my experience there is no "sand and recoat" ability with this clear.  You might be able to recoat, but wet sanding seems to "crack" the outer surface leaving it dull and soft, with the recoat then attacking it.  

As for the fisheyes, they would be caused the same way they would with any other clearcoat or color coat... contamination on the surface being coated.  I wouldn't necessarily recommend this to anyone, but it worked for me: before shooting the 1K clear, I wiped the item to be cleared down with a soft, clean cloth moistened with Windex.  I didn't want to use a tack rag, as those can sometimes leave deposits on the surface.  The glass cleaner seems to have cleaned the surface, without leaving a soapy residue that would create fisheyes.  Like I said, I wouldn't out-and-out recommend it, but I did try it and it worked, so I'll likely do it again until it doesn't work.

[Ace-Garageguy]

26 minutes ago, Len Woodruff said:

...I have gotten a few fish eyes in a few places. 

Not sure why?

Any ideas?

Fisheyes are almost invariably the result of surface contamination. It can occur from airborn stuff settling on the basecoat, while sitting a few hours or days, and from skin oils. If anyone is using spray furniture polish, or anything containing silicone nearby, that's a recipe for disaster too. Pollen can also cause it, believe it or not.

It's a problem with real-car and aircraft paint jobs as well, where a re-do can cost a shop literally thousands in materials alone.

Best preventative I've found, 100% effective, is a wipe with a lint-free cloth or soft paper towels (I use the super cheapo generic white recycled ones), soaked in 70% isopropyl alcohol. Then blow whatever dust or lint is on it, and don't touch the surface with fingers. And be sure the surface is completely dry.

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Claude Thibodeau]

Hi Len!

Adding to all of the above, I remember we had frequent fisheyes in House of Kolor high-end clear a few years ago, at a custom bike paint shop I was working for.

We discovered that even with all the care, cleaning, and even a state-of-the art downdraft paint booth, the source of our problem was microscopic contamination in the air, emanating from the tailpipe of the food truck that showed-up outside our door every morning at break time. The truck was a diesel, idling, so you can connect the dots. As soon as we closed the shop door before he showed-up, the fisheyes stopped occuring...

Goes to show that even virtually invisible airborne particles can induce the dreaded fish-eyes. 

I always blow my parts with filtered air at low pressure, but close range, before shooting. Rarely have any blemish. 

Good luck with your project!

CT 

[Len Woodruff]

33 minutes ago, Mark said:

I have used it straight from the can, and am satisfied with the results.

I don't know if it changes over time, but in my experience there is no "sand and recoat" ability with this clear.  You might be able to recoat, but wet sanding seems to "crack" the outer surface leaving it dull and soft, with the recoat then attacking it.  

As for the fisheyes, they would be caused the same way they would with any other clearcoat or color coat... contamination on the surface being coated.  I wouldn't necessarily recommend this to anyone, but it worked for me: before shooting the 1K clear, I wiped the item to be cleared down with a soft, clean cloth moistened with Windex.  I didn't want to use a tack rag, as those can sometimes leave deposits on the surface.  The glass cleaner seems to have cleaned the surface, without leaving a soapy residue that would create fisheyes.  Like I said, I wouldn't out-and-out recommend it, but I did try it and it worked, so I'll likely do it again until it doesn't work.

Just to confirm you haven't had any fish eyes when you shot it from the can?

[Len Woodruff]

3 minutes ago, Claude Thibodeau said:

Hi Len!

Adding to all of the above, I remember we had frequent fisheyes in House of Kolor high-end clear a few years ago, at a custom bike paint shop I was working for.

We discovered that even with all the care, cleaning, and even a state-of-the art downdraft paint booth, the source of our problem was microscopic contamination in the air, emanating from the tailpipe of the food truck that showed-up outside our door every morning at break time. The truck was a diesel, idling, so you can connect the dots. As soon as we closed the shop door before he showed-up, the fisheyes stopped occuring...

Goes to show that even virtually invisible airborne particles can induce the dreaded fish-eyes. 

I always blow my parts with filtered air at low pressure, but close range, before shooting. Rarely have any blemish. 

Good luck with your project!

CT 

Another note is I have been using Splash 2K clear and have never had any issue like this. I use the same process for both.

The fish eyes have happened both using my setup and my buddies. Both times the 1K was decanted then sprayed from my air-brush.

[cobraman]

I have used it several times right from the can and I have been very happy with it. 

[Mark]

So far, no fisheye problem for me.  No different from any other paint, in that cleanliness is key, but I guess some paints are more forgiving than others.  The 1K doesn't leave room for error...

[Claude Thibodeau]

4 minutes ago, Len Woodruff said:

Another note is I have been using Splash 2K clear and have never had any issue like this. I use the same process for both.

The fish eyes have happened both using my setup and my buddies. Both times the 1K was decanted then sprayed from my air-brush.

HI! 

Obviously, when using a can, nothing enters the paint mix that was not designed to do by the factory. Airbrush cleaning and its use for multiple paints and mediums can leave minute residues inside the airbrush, along the needle, in the jar, cap,  etc.

When I clean my jars before shooting, I use alcohol disposable wipes, soaked with cheap thinner. The better ones are made of a synthetic fiber that leaves virtually no fibers behind. 

Also, I do NOT use a spraying booth, because I have a large shop/garage in which I don't mind accumulating some overspray. In most situation, the air flow pulled by the typical hobbyist booth will drag any dust, lint, clothes micro-fibers and all toward your subject, on its way to the fan (!). Not an ideal situation. 

Finally, over the years, the most "perfect" viscosity in a lacquer clear, for me, was Testor's Extreme Lacquer Wet Look clear (the brown labeled can). Alas, not avail anymore in Canada, but I know most Michael's stores in the US still carry it. I bought a few cans last fall in New-Hampshire, and saved it for my contest models only. BUT... I discovered that they changed the recipe somehow, and that if you use, let's say, half a can on a project... The next time you want to use the remaining clear in the can a few days later... It seems to "crater" in some places on the model. So, now, I plan my clear-coating with two models at once, to use all of the clear in a single session. You got to do what you got to do LOL. 

Here's a 49 Ford I painted with a Model Master acrylic custom mix with an airbrush, then cleared with the Wet Look clear. Almost no rubbing, believe it or not...

CT 

[Ace-Garageguy]

13 hours ago, Claude Thibodeau said:

...Goes to show that even virtually invisible airborne particles can induce the dreaded fish-eyes. 

Yup. I was shooting the last coat of clear on a real '37 Rolls, with the booth doors closed, and the porter pulled a car in front of the booth to spray some silicone-based somethingorother.

Whatever it was made it through the full-door filters.

The fisheyes practically exploded off the Rolls. Needless to say. I had a slightly "confrontational" interaction with the porter.

And then I had to sand it all off and re-shoot the entire car.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

6 minutes ago, Claude Thibodeau said:

...Here's a 49 Ford I painted with a Model Master acrylic custom mix with an airbrush, then cleared with the Wet Look clear. Almost no rubbing, believe it or not...

Yup, once you master the process...  ?

[Len Woodruff]

I have use both the Testors Wet Look clear and Tamiya Lacquer decanted with no problems through my setup.

The fisheyes aren't all over the car. Just a spot on the hood.

[Dave G.]

On 6/2/2023 at 9:03 PM, Claude Thibodeau said:

HI! 

Obviously, when using a can, nothing enters the paint mix that was not designed to do by the factory. Airbrush cleaning and its use for multiple paints and mediums can leave minute residues inside the airbrush, along the needle, in the jar, cap,  etc.

When I clean my jars before shooting, I use alcohol disposable wipes, soaked with cheap thinner. The better ones are made of a synthetic fiber that leaves virtually no fibers behind. 

Also, I do NOT use a spraying booth, because I have a large shop/garage in which I don't mind accumulating some overspray. In most situation, the air flow pulled by the typical hobbyist booth will drag any dust, lint, clothes micro-fibers and all toward your subject, on its way to the fan (!). Not an ideal situation. 

Finally, over the years, the most "perfect" viscosity in a lacquer clear, for me, was Testor's Extreme Lacquer Wet Look clear (the brown labeled can). Alas, not avail anymore in Canada, but I know most Michael's stores in the US still carry it. I bought a few cans last fall in New-Hampshire, and saved it for my contest models only. BUT... I discovered that they changed the recipe somehow, and that if you use, let's say, half a can on a project... The next time you want to use the remaining clear in the can a few days later... It seems to "crater" in some places on the model. So, now, I plan my clear-coating with two models at once, to use all of the clear in a single session. You got to do what you got to do LOL. 

Here's a 49 Ford I painted with a Model Master acrylic custom mix with an airbrush, then cleared with the Wet Look clear. Almost no rubbing, believe it or not...

CT 

The paint and build in general look great. The question: how did you manage to get this in a 1950 version ? Is it a kit bash ?

[Mark]

The coupe kit is a '49, but the hood, grille, and rear bumper (slightly different) from the '50 convertible kit drop right in place as both kits were created alongside one another.  There are other slight differences between '49 and '50, but between the two kits someone wanting a '50 coupe (or '49 convertible) should find what is needed.

[Claude Thibodeau]

4 hours ago, Dave G. said:

The paint and build in general look great. The question: how did you manage to get this in a 1950 version ? Is it a kit bash ?

HI! 

I did mix some of the custom parts from the 49 & 50, and modified the grille to fit a lower roll pan in lieu of a bumper. Fun you did notice!

CT

[ctruss53]

It has been covered. Fisheyes don't really have anything to do with the product. They are a result of contamination on the surface.

I mainly came in here to add how I prevent them.

I have a container of isopropoal alcohol wipes. You can get them in the pharmacy section at all of the big stores like Target, Walmart, and probably even in grocery stores that have a pharmacy section as well.

I'd use a lint free cloth and alcohol, like Ace. But I like that I can pull out a wipe and get to cleaning. I think in the grand scheme of things they are about 30 cents per wipe. And I know 30 cents seems to be a lot of money around here. But I don't mind the price.

[Dave G.]

15 hours ago, Mark said:

The coupe kit is a '49, but the hood, grille, and rear bumper (slightly different) from the '50 convertible kit drop right in place as both kits were created alongside one another.  There are other slight differences between '49 and '50, but between the two kits someone wanting a '50 coupe (or '49 convertible) should find what is needed.

That's what I kind of figured, thanks. I have a reason to build a 50 Ford coupe.

[Dave G.]

You can also get cratering that looks much like fish eyes but there is a different cause. It's a surface tension problem with certain thinners in the paint. For instance Testors enamel thinned with hardware store paint thinner flows out beautifully but then here come the craters. If you mix it 50-50 with mineral spirits first, then thin you still get nice flow and no craters. Also the best of all is probably hardware store lacquer thinner, back to great flow out and no craters. So why am I saying this ? Because the little circular rings that appear are not always fish eyes though they look similar. A product call One shot fish eye eliminator tends to cover both sins, it also improves gloss slightly.

However, back on the topic of actual fish eyes, surface contamination can even come from your own fine mist if your talk over your model to someone, say on a phone or whatever. We give off a fine unseen mist in the air when we speak. The droplets of which can settle on ready to be painted surfaces. Smoke from the kitchen when frying things too. Spray furniture polish has been covered.

[Len Woodruff]

1 hour ago, Dave G. said:

You can also get cratering that looks much like fish eyes but there is a different cause. It's a surface tension problem with certain thinners in the paint. For instance Testors enamel thinned with hardware store paint thinner flows out beautifully but then here come the craters. If you mix it 50-50 with mineral spirits first, then thin you still get nice flow and no craters. Also the best of all is probably hardware store lacquer thinner, back to great flow out and no craters. So why am I saying this ? Because the little circular rings that appear are not always fish eyes though they look similar. A product call One shot fish eye eliminator tends to cover both sins, it also improves gloss slightly.

However, back on the topic of actual fish eyes, surface contamination can even come from your own fine mist if your talk over your model to someone, say on a phone or whatever. We give off a fine unseen mist in the air when we speak. The droplets of which can settle on ready to be painted surfaces. Smoke from the kitchen when frying things too. Spray furniture polish has been covered.

Dave it could be craters like you said. They look like fish eyes but seem to be deep too. I should have taken picks to show every one.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Len Woodruff

[ctruss53]

2 hours ago, Dave G. said:

You can also get cratering that looks much like fish eyes but there is a different cause. It's a surface tension problem with certain thinners in the paint. For instance Testors enamel thinned with hardware store paint thinner flows out beautifully but then here come the craters. If you mix it 50-50 with mineral spirits first, then thin you still get nice flow and no craters. Also the best of all is probably hardware store lacquer thinner, back to great flow out and no craters. So why am I saying this ? Because the little circular rings that appear are not always fish eyes though they look similar. A product call One shot fish eye eliminator tends to cover both sins, it also improves gloss slightly.

However, back on the topic of actual fish eyes, surface contamination can even come from your own fine mist if your talk over your model to someone, say on a phone or whatever. We give off a fine unseen mist in the air when we speak. The droplets of which can settle on ready to be painted surfaces. Smoke from the kitchen when frying things too. Spray furniture polish has been covered.

I don't think this is the problem though. He shouldn't be thinning it, he is just decanting it.

[Len Woodruff]

45 minutes ago, ctruss53 said:

I don't think this is the problem though. He shouldn't be thinning it, he is just decanting it.

I am not thinning it. It sprays fine out of the can.

[ctruss53]

1 minute ago, Len Woodruff said:

I am not thinning it. It sprays fine out of the can.

That is what I thought.  Since you are not thinning it, I don't think your problem has to do with the product itself.

[Len Woodruff]

3 minutes ago, ctruss53 said:

That is what I thought.  Since you are not thinning it, I don't think your problem has to do with the product itself.

Could it be I am putting it on too thick? I using my medium needle in my air rush which I use for every pint I have ever sprayed.

[ctruss53]

7 minutes ago, Len Woodruff said:

Could it be I am putting it on too thick? I using my medium needle in my air rush which I use for every pint I have ever sprayed.

That is very possible.

I like to apply clear coats with 2-3 very light coats with just 3-5 minutes between coats, to build up an even tacky finish. Then I apply 1-3 wet coats.

This process can create a little bit of orange peel, but I always polish my clearcoats, so this doen't bother me. I'll remove the orange peel and then polish it out.

This finish is clear coat from a spray can. Mr Super Clear UV Cut from Mr Hobby. I love this stuff. And this is before polish. (don't mind the spots, that was garbage that landed after it was cured.)

EDIT: Sorry, this is after polish I think.

Edited June 5, 2023 by ctruss53

[Dave G.]

It can also be water vapor that pickup oils in the air lines, as already mentioned there is a host of ways to pick up contamination. I've seen many sources in shooting 1/1 for 35 years.

My latest method of clear coat for models is with Createx 4050. It has it's own ways so I'll drop out here ( it's not the product or system of OP). Createx also has 4053 which is more wet look but I thus far like the 4050 because while I can spray it on so it looks like glass it dries more semi gloss, then I can buff it back up to the sheen I want and I know it's already very smooth. I do mostly classic era and antique cars, their finish in 1/1 is generally not like wet look but is high luster. So best of luck to you all in solving this issue.