Enamel paints and hardener

[Monty]

I've noticed that some YouTube modelers use MCW enamel paint along with MCW hardener on their builds.  Seems to speed up the frying process and leaves a very shiny surface without clearing, although that might be due to the quality of the paint.

Has anyone tried using MCW's hardener in other enamels (Model Master, Humbrol, Revell)?  I get working within a given system, but I'm curious.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

45 minutes ago, Monty said:

...Seems to speed up the frying process...

I usually use olive oil.

[Mark]

58 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I usually use olive oil.

Don't let Popeye find out...

[Monty]

Hmmm, gotta blame this on my blood type, which is...Type-O  ? 

 

[Dpate]

Well Enamels will gloss better than other paint will just the way they work, because you don’t have to wait between costs just keep it going until done. The hardener I’m sure could be used in other enamels, and I’ve seen 2K hardener be used in MCW with no issue. You can also thin MCW enamels with Mr hobby’s leveling thinner. He was using MCW hardener, but think he switched to the 2k hardener because it’s cheaper in the long run. 
 

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Dpate

[Dave G.]

Tractor supply has enamel hardener, at least locally.

Hardeners in enamel do work to both produce a more mar resistant surface and increase gloss. I used a generic hardener in several brands shooting 1/1 for decades. Also a shot of this stuff: https://www.toolsource.com/body-fillers-and-spreaders-c-34_473/smoothie-fisheye-eliminator-8-oz-p-67053.html?gad=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7czM8NbC_wIV8hetBh0WWgXrEAAYAiAAEgLje_D_BwE

[Mark]

Two words...

"Safety equipment"...

Read the info on the can.  For the stuff we're doing, a dehydrator might be the way to go.

[Ace-Garageguy]

33 minutes ago, Mark said:

Two words...

"Safety equipment"...

Read the info on the can.  For the stuff we're doing, a dehydrator might be the way to go.

Yup. "Hardeners" for enamels usually contain isocyanates.

Bad, bad, bad to inhale, not great to get on your skin either.

[Dave G.]

3 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Yup. "Hardeners" for enamels usually contain isocyanates.

Bad, bad, bad to inhale, not great to get on your skin either.

Yep and two part paints, especially urethanes are what eventually drove me out of the refinish business. To do it right in 1/1 you need more than a mask, really you need a suit. In my case it was a positive pressure head piece that blew air out the front so no paint or fumes got to the eyes ( another entry point for isocyanates), then a complete body suit. While I did all this I eventually deemed it too dangerous. I'd never bring this stuff into my home ! That includes any hardener, two part systems, enamel or 2K. Our models don't need it anyway, they aren't beat to death by weather. And I can get the look I want just fine by a number of other means.

[Ace-Garageguy]

11 minutes ago, Dave G. said:

Yep and two part paints, especially urethanes are what eventually drove me out of the refinish business. To do it right in 1/1 you need more than a mask, really you need a suit. In my case it was a positive pressure head piece that blew air out the front so no paint or fumes got to the eyes ( another entry point for isocyanates), then a complete body suit. While I did all this I eventually deemed it too dangerous. I'd never bring this stuff into my home ! That includes any hardener, two part systems, enamel or 2K. Our models don't need it anyway, they aren't beat to death by weather. And I can get the look I want just fine by a number of other means.

Yup, but I still see modelers saying the stuff is no big deal, and if you paint outside or hold your breath or whatever other idiot advice they vomit up, you can forget about the hazards.

Okay, little fellas. This is you.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Dave G.]

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Yup, but I still see modelers saying the stuff is no big deal, and if you paint outside or hold your breath or whatever other idiot advice they vomit up, you can forget about the hazards.

Okay, little fellas.

Oh but their models look pretty.

We got all the health info when I was in the business. Main supplier was Dupont and the jobber was very good at getting us the info, seminars etc. right from the horses mouth Here is something I bet most don't know: you don't have to be spraying the stuff, the drying fumes are just as dangerous. If you can sniff it out during the curing process, that's just as dangerous as the spray. You just don't see particles. It still enters through eyes, skin, lung, eats tissue and catalyzes never to be removed. It becomes one with the damaged tissue. I'm speaking up now but had gotten tired of vocalizing the warnings just to be put down because models are small lol ! Do as they may but not me. Nope, I didn't get away from two part systems professionally just to bring smaller quantities home and use it here, kill the cats, the wife, damage myself. I got away for a reason. You don't want to be hearing about a friend who has an incurable fog looking mess in his lungs that shows up in scans. That happened to me, he eventually died from complications of it.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Dave G.

[bluenote]

20 minutes ago, Dave G. said:

Yep and two part paints, especially urethanes are what eventually drove me out of the refinish business. To do it right in 1/1 you need more than a mask, really you need a suit. In my case it was a positive pressure head piece that blew air out the front so no paint or fumes got to the eyes ( another entry point for isocyanates), then a complete body suit. While I did all this I eventually deemed it too dangerous. I'd never bring this stuff into my home ! That includes any hardener, two part systems, enamel or 2K. Our models don't need it anyway, they aren't beat to death by weather. And I can get the look I want just fine by a number of other means.

I couldn't agree more.  I know lots of people use 2k clear, but I would never use stuff like that for models.  Good ol' Tamiya TS-13 clear is all I need.  I'm not even crazy about using Scalefinishes (automotive grade paint) sometimes, but alas, sometimes they only have the colour I'm needing.  If Tamiya had most of the Mopar colours, I'd only be using Tamiya.  

[Dave G.]

I do still use limited amounts of enamel paint. Nobody can argue the finish is great ! But as someone up the thread a bit mentioned, I too use a dehydrator. I also use limited lacquer, I do that either when the asthmatic wife is out of the house or I shoot it outside. More and more I'm going acrylic though, I have them working great for me.

[Tabbysdaddy]

I hold my breath. It works great until I pass out. 

[Monty]

Thanks, guys!  Very informative and sobering thread.  The info you guys posted about the hardeners generally goes unmentioned in these instructional videos, so I have no doubt you've helped to educate quite a few people regarding possible hazards when using them. 

      

[Dpate]

When I spray 2K I suit up. Lot of PPE, and face mask from 3M can’t smell anything. Good high end paint booth helps too. I keeps that running, and air purifier running cause it has a carbon filter that get rid of odors. I’ve been tempted to try dupli colors clear out, and I’ve heard Mr hobby’s clear is good too. 

[gary jackson]

On 6/13/2023 at 8:41 PM, Mark said:

Don't let Popeye find out...

ah blow me down