Tamiya cement guestion? Please explain..

[slusher]

 

I know and have used Tamiya extra thin cement but what’s the difference in the orange and white cements?

[ColonelKrypton]

Tamiiya white cap cement is more similar to Tamiya extra thin and contains solvents typically found in plastic cements but also contains a percentage of dissolved styrene which makes thicker ( i.e. more viscous )

Tamiya orange cap cement is made from limonene which is a solvent made from citrus. It is a safer to use cement and has less smell.

https://www.tamiya.com/english/products/87113limonene_cement/index.htm

There are a few other makers of cement using limonene. 

For reference Tamiya White cap cement contains as listed in it's safety data sheet

• name                                         cas no.                                      

  Butyl Acetate	123-86-4	40.0	％
  Acetone	67-64-1	40.0	％
  Cyclohexane	110-82-7	7.0	％
  3-Methoxy-3-Methylbutyl Acetate	103429-90-9	2.0	％
  Polystyrene Resin	9003-53-6	11.0	％

And Tamiya orange cap cement contains as listed in it's safety data sheet 

• D-Limonen CAS-Nr. 5989-27-5       95-98%

  alpha-Terpinen CAS-Nr. 99-86-5     1-2%

  alpha-Pinen CAS-Nr. 80-56-8        <1%

A CAS Number is a numerical designation for chemicals that is maintained by the Chemical Abstracts Service (CAS) of the American Chemical Society. Each number assigned by the CAS is unique to one chemical substance whereas many chemical may have more than one common name.

I have never tried a limonene based plastic cement so I cannot make any first hand observations of the Tamiya white cap vs orange cap. Perhaps it is time I pick up a bottle and give it a try.

cheers, Graham 

 

[slusher]

Does the white or orange dry just a little slower than the extra thin? Extra thin dries really fast I can hardly get parts together..

[Dpate]

2 hours ago, slusher said:

Does the white or orange dry just a little slower than the extra thin? Extra thin dries really fast I can hardly get parts together..

That’s cause you’re using it wrong. Even though it can work that way - it’s really meant to be used for parts out together unpainted. It works best when parts are pre fitted together so it can flow through n weld the parts together i.e engine halves. I personally use quick setting extra thin by Tamiya as it dries faster. The orange non scented cement is thick like regular CA glue, and is used in the same manner. Wanna try and not get too much paint on the brush either as dipping it back in the glue like that it can lose it’s potency over time. But if you’re wanting to glue parts together like using CA glue? Then you want the orange cap octagon shaped bottle. 

[ctruss53]

I don't understand why you keep calling the orange cap "unscented."  The green cap, extra-tin stuff has a stronger odor, but they are both pretty bad.

I am not a chemist, so I'll use regular terms based on my use of both the green cap and orange cap glues.

The green cap extra thin glue acts more like an instant glue. You hold the two parts you want to glue together, as they would be assembled. Then you lightly tap that little brush on the joint, the extra thin cement wicks into the joint and those parts are glued together. The parts will hold their bond nearly instantly if there is very little gap. And then the glue takes another few moments to cure based on how much you applied.

The green cap glue works best on unpainted and unplated parts. HOWEVER, it can work on painted parts if there is not a whole lot of paint. But it does instantly disolve any paint it touches.  I would advise only using it on bare plastic though.

The orange cap stuff is thicker. And cures slower. and it still has a strong odor. This glue will not wick into seams, so you have to apply it to the parts and then assemble them. It works best if you apply a little bit of glue to both parts, then wait just a moment, and then put the parts together.  It bonds the parts together just enough to hold the bond in a few minutes. But it takes an hour or so to cure fully if you only use a little bit.  If you slather that stuff all over the parts the bond will hold pretty well in 5-10 minutes, but it could take a few hours to fully cure.

I would equate the orange cap glue to good old Testors tube glues.  Yes, I think the two products are different, but they act similar. They melt the plastic together where the glue is applied. And they have similar working times. Tamiya might work a little faster, but they are similar.

Just like the green cap glue, the orange cap glue works best on bare parts.

Because Tamiya glues work best on bare parts, I have 3 go to glues. Green cap to wick into seams and cure fast. The orange cap glue for a slower, stronger bond or to use when parts don't fix right up to each other the best. And then I have a bottle of that new Revell Contacta Professional to use on painted parts. Because it seems to work just fine with painted parts.

Edited July 11, 2023 by ctruss53

[slusher]

Thank you guys for the time to explain everything…

[peteski]

I would stay away from any citrus-based (probably D-Limonen) styrene cements.  Some if you remember the non-toxic blue tube Testors glue which smelled like oranges but didn't work well at all.  Then later on there seem to be a run of citrus based liquid cements. I used that once, and never again.  It worked well, but it never fully evaporated.  I used it to glue fuel tank halves together on a Peterbilt kit.  I sanded and polished the seam and it looked smooth. I then sent it to be "chrome" plated.  Tank looked fine, but then within  few months, the seam became more and more visible (like it was shrinking.  I could also smell very faint orange smell.  Stay away from any citrus-based adhesives!

Edited July 12, 2023 by peteski

[Can-Con]

4 hours ago, peteski said:

I would stay away from any citrus-based (probably D-Limonen) styrene cements.  Some if you remember the non-toxic blue tube Testors glue which smelled like oranges but didn't work well at all.  Then later on there seem to be a run of citrus based liquid cements. I used that once, and never again.  It worked well, but it never fully evaporated.  I used ot to glue fuel tank halves together on e Peterbilt kit.  I sanded and polished the seam and it looked smooth. I then sent it to be "chrome" plated.  Tank looked fine, but then within  few months, the seam became more and more visible (like it was shrinking.  I could also smell very faint orange smell.  Stay away from any citrus-based adhesives!

Worst model cement ever !!!!

[ctruss53]

4 hours ago, peteski said:

I would stay away from any citrus-based (probably D-Limonen) styrene cements.  Some if you remember the non-toxic blue tube Testors glue which smelled like oranges but didn't work well at all.  Then later on there seem to be a run of citrus based liquid cements. I used that once, and never again.  It worked well, but it never fully evaporated.  I used ot to glue fuel tank halves together on e Peterbilt kit.  I sanded and polished the seam and it looked smooth. I then sent it to be "chrome" plated.  Tank looked fine, but then within  few months, the seam became more and more visible (like it was shrinking.  I could also smell very faint orange smell.  Stay away from any citrus-based adhesives!

Tamiya orange cap doesn't have a citrus smell. And doesn't do that. It melts the plastic together and cures just fine. So I don't know if that Limonen is the culprit.

[Bainford]

44 minutes ago, Can-Con said:

Worst model cement ever !!!!

You got that right.

When I was a kid a relative gave me a Palmer kit and a tube of Notox to build it. How poetic.

[ColonelKrypton]

44 minutes ago, ctruss53 said:

Tamiya orange cap doesn't have a citrus smell. And doesn't do that. It melts the plastic together and cures just fine. So I don't know if that Limonen is the culprit.

It sounds like we are mixing up Tamiya white cap cement which is non D-Limonene based and works like many other non D-Limonene cements and has that same similar solvent smell as does Tamiya Extra Thin ( dark green cap ), Tamiya Extra Thin Quick dry ( light green cap ), and similar Testors and Tenax cements. But Tamiya White cap does have 11% dissolved styrene resins which makes it thicker ( more viscous ) and takes longer for the solvents to evaporate and is somewhat between the extra thin cements and tube cement.

Tamiya orange cap with orange label https://www.tamiya.com/english/products/87113limonene_cement/index.htm is D-Limonene based and smells nothing like the other cements noted above. To quote Tamiya's web page "...extracted from citrus fruits and is very safe to use and comes with no unpleasant smells" 

cheers, Graham

[peteski]

1 hour ago, ctruss53 said:

Tamiya orange cap doesn't have a citrus smell. And doesn't do that. It melts the plastic together and cures just fine. So I don't know if that Limonen is the culprit.

A Slusher's photo clearly shows, there are multiple glue "flavors" with an orange cap.

The "limonene" is also clearly stated on the label.  I just warned others about it, even though I have never seen that specific Tamiya cement in any hobby stores in USA.

[ctruss53]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

My orange cap and orange label tamiya cement doesn't smell anything like citrus. What are those people smoking?

[NOBLNG]

7 hours ago, ctruss53 said:

HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

My orange cap and orange label tamiya cement doesn't smell anything like citrus. What are those people smoking?

Could be your ctruss receptors are desensitized.?

Edited July 12, 2023 by NOBLNG

[peteski]

10 hours ago, ctruss53 said:

HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

My orange cap and orange label tamiya cement doesn't smell anything like citrus. What are those people smoking?

 

Funny or  not, my orange capped hexagonal bottle (Item 87012) doesn't have "LIMONEN" on its label (just "TAMIYA CEMENT"), and it smells like acetone and alcohol.  Is your bottle hexagonal or square? What is the item number (on its label)?

I'm not here for a peeing contest - I just warned members here to stay away from any citrus-based cements, after it messed up my model.

Edited July 12, 2023 by peteski

[ctruss53]

15 minutes ago, peteski said:

 

Funny or  not, my orange capped hexagonal bottle (Item 87012) doesn't have "LIMONEN" on its label (just "TAMIYA CEMENT"), and it smells like acetone and alcohol.  Is your bottle hexagonal or square? What is the item number (on its label)?

I'm not here for a peeing contest - I just warned members here to stay away from any citrus-based cements, after it messed up my model.

I have the orange cap, orange label hexagon bottle Tamiya cement.

[iamsuperdan]

11 hours ago, ctruss53 said:

HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

My orange cap and orange label tamiya cement doesn't smell anything like citrus. What are those people smoking?

 

You mention using the hexagonal bottle with orange label/cap. 

Did you notice that the "citrus" Tamiya glue is NOT the glue that you're using?

Maybe try reading all the posts first, before commenting and laughing at others.

 

Now we can laugh at you. Right?

[Can-Con]

14 hours ago, Bainford said:

You got that right.

When I was a kid a relative gave me a Palmer kit and a tube of Notox to build it. How poetic.

Yea, my family tried to get me to quit the hobby too when I was younger. ?

[ColonelKrypton]

Just to help clarify:

Tamiya Cement, with white cap, white label, square 40ml bottle, Tamiya number 87003 is NOT D-Limonene based

Tamiya Cement, with orange cap, orange label, hexagonal 20ml bottle, Tamiya number 87012 is NOT D-Limonene based

According to their material safety data sheets ( MSDS ) these two cements are the same product only differing in their packaging. 

 

Tamiya Limonene Cement, with orange cap, orange label, square 40ml bottle, Tamiya number 87113 is as suggested by it's name D-Limonene based

Tamiya Limonene Cement Extra Thin, with orange cap, light orange label, square 40ml bottle, Tamiya number 87134 is as suggested by it's name D-Limonene based

 

Why Tamiya chose to use an orange cap and label on their Tamiya Cement hexagonal 20ml bottle is unknown but as we have seen, it can be confusing.

 

 

cheers, Graham

Edited July 12, 2023 by ColonelKrypton
tinger frouble

[Bainford]

47 minutes ago, ColonelKrypton said:

Just to help clarify:

Tamiya Cement, with white cap, white label, square 40ml bottle, Tamiya number 87003 is NOT D-Limonene based

Tamiya Cement, with orange cap, orange label, hexagonal 20ml bottle, Tamiya number 87012 is NOT D-Limonene based

According to their material safety data sheets ( MSDS ) these two cements are the same product only differing in their packaging. 

 

According to the MSDS someone posted earlier, the white cap cement contains 11% polystyrene, which I believe the orange cap (non-limonene) cement does not have. I have made the assumption that this may be the only difference between the two.

Standing by to be corrected.

The inclusion of 11% styrene plastic in the white-cap cement is interesting. I think I need to pick up some of this stuff and see what it is all about.

[ColonelKrypton]

15 minutes ago, Bainford said:

According to the MSDS someone posted earlier, the white cap cement contains 11% polystyrene, which I believe the orange cap (non-limonene) cement does not have. I have made the assumption that this may be the only difference between the two.

Standing by to be corrected.

 

Possibly.  However, the MSDS I have states that it is for both the 40ml and 20ml product. i.e white cap 40ml, orange cap (non-limonene) 20ml 

It was I who posted the snippet from the Tamiya Cement ( white cap ) MSDS  earlier in the post.

MSDS are handy documents to have on hand. However in our digital world there are often far too many versions. Products and their composition do change from time to time so it necessary to pay close attention. The devil is in the details.

cheers, Graham

 

 

 

[ctruss53]

3 hours ago, iamsuperdan said:

 

You mention using the hexagonal bottle with orange label/cap. 

Did you notice that the "citrus" Tamiya glue is NOT the glue that you're using?

Maybe try reading all the posts first, before commenting and laughing at others.

 

Now we can laugh at you. Right?

I didn't laugh at that user. I laughed at the quote from Tamiya.  I laughed at Tamiya.

But go ahead and laugh at me if you feel like it. I don't give a sh--

[1972coronet]

[oldracer]

Somebody stated that tube glue is the same as Tamiya cement...sorry, but that old Testors tube stuff is glue, and DOES NOT "weld" the plastic like Tamiya's "cement" does. There is a difference between "glues" and "cements". I have models, old ones, that were put together with that old tube BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH, and they are falling apart with age. The ones I built with Tamiya cement are MANY years old, and still together. we hold workshops for modellers and we get many noobeez coming to the hobby and others that are getting back in to it, with many questions about the "best" glue to use. We almost always recommend the liquid stuff because it dries quick and allows you to keep building without having to wait until the tube stuff sets up. If used correctly, you will hardly ever get any squeezout like you do with tube stuff. Also works better for small parts that will be a b---ch to take hold with a dollop of tube glue...! We sell at our LHS Tamiya cement 10 to 1 in favour of the Revell tube stuff...cannot get the Testor stuff anymore...at least not up here in the Great White North...and if you CAN find it, they want double or triple the price it used to be...!!

oldracer