How much time between paint coats (enamel)

[Milo]

If I do 2 light coats and 2 wet coats for a body job with an emamel paint and an airbrush, how much time between coats?

[Dpate]

I’m not familiar with a lot of enamels, but you keep painting until it’s done. So if you got a gloss color you’ll shoot until she glosses up. I could be wrong though? So wait till someone else chimes in. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Dpate

[rickybobby6969]

I usually shoot 2 light coats an then one heavy coat. I wait about 20-30 mins between coats

[RSchnell]

I shoot a couple light coats(some colors may require more than a couple for total opacity) without any flash time, then I go back and lay down my gloss coat. This has worked well on not only 1:1 cars but models as well. 

[Dave G.]

With enamel I go till it's done and that's it, no flash time the stuff dries too slow for that. And using lacquer thinner to thin it, no runs. When I say go till done, that adds up to everything getting hit 2-3 times, the last pass the most wet. So shoot one side, the other, top side, back to the first, second and top again, then repeat. With LT you can practically dump it on at that last coat and it doesn't run, dries smooth like glass.

After 60 years of mostly enamel ( 35 professionally in 1/1) and solvents, I can safely say I've now turned mostly over to acrylic though. And a little hobby lacquers now and then. I might decant some Rustoleum 2x now and then. I do use Rustoleum on metal lawn furniture, just painted the patio set a couple of weeks ago in fact. My Models now are mostly shot in acrylic.

[peteski]

David, sounds like you are professional painter, so you likely understand paint chemistry.  "Acrylics" is a poor paint description being propagated by modelers to indicate a non-organic-solvent-based or "water-based" paints (because in the real world acrylic binder is used in both organic and non-organic solvent based paints).  Are you saying that you have moved onto using those "non-stinky" water-based acrylic enamels?

[Dave G.]

4 hours ago, peteski said:

David, sounds like you are professional painter, so you likely understand paint chemistry.  "Acrylics" is a poor paint description being propagated by modelers to indicate a non-organic-solvent-based or "water-based" paints (because in the real world acrylic binder is used in both organic and non-organic solvent based paints).  Are you saying that you have moved onto using those "non-stinky" water-based acrylic enamels?

My time painting 1/1 professionally was 35 years but ended some 15-20 years ago. Still, Acrylic enamels and acrylic lacquers came on the scene in my lifetime. Waterborne acrylics, alcohol acrylics for models as well. Base coat clear coat in 1/1. Imron for fleets. The alkyd resin enamels and nitrocellulose lacquers were non acrylic. MCW enamels are acrylic enamel as are their lacquer paints. Rustoleum to my knowledge is synthetic enamel much the same as alkyd resin. When I say I've mostly moved on to acrylics, I'm speaking mostly of waterborne but not exclusively.

On another note,I ran into something I was unaware of till I read the back of a can of Mr Surfacer 1000, they list it two ways on the back: Product name is "synthetic resin paint". Material: "Acrylic synthetic resin, organic solvent, pigment". I somehow assumed it to be nitro lacquer, well it's not listed as such. And yes, it has stinky solvents in it. So too is the case of solvents for Krylon clear acrylic and Crystal clear. They sell clear lacquer as well, and clear acrylic lacquer ( stinky solvents). So yes, I'm well aware of various uses of acrylic carriers but I don't claim to be a chemist lol !

Then we get into accelerators, hardeners/two part systems with isocyanates that you will never find in my house but people on here love to use.  That's what drove me out of 1/1, when I found myself wearing basically a space suit to spray in ( not literally but that's what I called it, with it's own air supply, plastic shield, disposable white suit). We got the warnings in classes and seminars how rough this stuff is on human tissue and most notably lungs, it wasn't too long for me to conclude I don't need this. At the time it was a lot of fleet work and shooting Dupont Imron, a two part paint with isocyanate as catalyst, and Centari acrylic enamels with isocyanate hardeners.

But anyway, ya you can say I'm speaking the model industries lingo on acrylic. But you might want to understand that they use no other term, non of the toxic acrylics that I know of are listed as acrylic on the front label, including Mr Surfacer 1000. Not till you read the fine print on the back. But I haven't looked too hard either.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Dave G.

[peteski]

This generic (and not exactly accurate) paint nomenclature (both by modelers and by some hobby paint companies) really does a disservice to modelers who like to try  wide range of paint products.  After all, just because some paint uses acrylic binder does not automatically mean that it uses mild solvent (like water or alcohol).  As you know, many "acrylic" finishes out in the world use "hot" solvents which will attack polystyrene.  I know I'm fighting a losing battle, but I keep trying.

[Dave G.]

50 minutes ago, peteski said:

This generic (and not exactly accurate) paint nomenclature (both by modelers and by some hobby paint companies) really does a disservice to modelers who like to try  wide range of paint products.  After all, just because some paint uses acrylic binder does not automatically mean that it uses mild solvent (like water or alcohol).  As you know, many "acrylic" finishes out in the world use "hot" solvents which will attack polystyrene.  I know I'm fighting a losing battle, but I keep trying.

Hey if it helps you get a better nights sleep keep going for it !

[robdebie]

On 8/14/2023 at 12:36 AM, Milo said:

If I do 2 light coats and 2 wet coats for a body job with an emamel paint and an airbrush, how much time between coats?

First: I recommend watching this video, showing the 'Donn Yost' method, where all paint is applied in one session. I bought a Paasche H, tried it on all brands of enamel that I have, and it works really well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCKZ_fo4eW0&ab_channel=AndyX

Second: I learned from a book on industrial painting that you need to overcoat before a certain time, or overcoat after a certain time. In the time between, the paint could swell and ripple due to the solvents from the new layer of paint. Now I don't know these times for your paint, but it is good to know this. Or use the 'Donn Yost' method and do it all in one go.

Rob

Edited August 15, 2023 by robdebie

[Milo]

How do I adjust psi with an aerosol can?

[Milo]

30 minutes ago, robdebie said:

First: I recommend watching this video, showing the 'Donn Yost' method, where all paint is applied in one session. I bought a Paasche H, tried it on all brands of enamel that I have, and it works really well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCKZ_fo4eW0&ab_channel=AndyX

Second: I learned from a book on industrial painting that you need to overcoat before a certain time, or overcoat after a certain time. In the time between, the paint could swell and ripple due to the solvents from the new layer of paint. Now I don't know these times for your paint, but it is good to know this. Or use the 'Donn Yost' method and do it all in one go.

Rob

What all do I need after buying the paasche h?

[robdebie]

20 hours ago, Milo said:

What all do I need after buying the paasche h?

Lacquer thinner, if you don't have it. That's all you need.

I tried for 30 years to obtain this quality, and never achieved it. It almost hurt when this method did! And with all enamel paint brands that I have. Here are two photos that made of my experiments.

You do need to experiment a bit to find the nozzle settings. For the second, wet pass, you really need to open that nozzle, maybe 1.5 to 2 turns. That felt unnatural to me, coming from a Badger 150. But only then it works.

Rob

[bill-e-boy]

And don't be afraid to use hot thinners like lacquer thinners. The 2-3 lighter coats and one wet coat spaced about 30mins apart work best easpecially when using hot thinners. More or less the Don Yost method and I have been doing it this way forever

I years past I used lighter fluid as a thinner for Humbrol enamels and that worked great

I even use lacquer thinners with Tamiya acrylics but you need to watch out that some thinners are hotter than others

Good luck

[Dave G.]

Just hardware store lacquer thinner works fine in enamels.

As far as Tamiya acrylic goes, Tamiya themselves suggest thinning with lacquer thinner when wanting a harder finish. You just have to look at their website, it's listed there not on the bottles that I know of.. Same thing, hardware store lacquer thinner is fine. Some folks swear by Mr Leveling Thinner in Tamiya acrylics but I personally do no better with that and hardware store LT is less expensive and works fine..

[Milo]

4 hours ago, robdebie said:

Lacquer thinner, if you don't have it. That's all you need.

Rob

I'm talking about air, paint bottle container things, and all that stuff. (I don't have a real airbrush so I don't have the full airbrush setup)

[robdebie]

17 hours ago, Milo said:

I'm talking about air, paint bottle container things, and all that stuff. (I don't have a real airbrush so I don't have the full airbrush setup)

I bought this set in 2020, and it contains everything except the air supply:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004O7HTYU/ref=pe_3044161_185740101_TE_item

Rob

 

 

[Milo]

5 hours ago, robdebie said:

I bought this set in 2020, and it contains everything except the air supply:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004O7HTYU/ref=pe_3044161_185740101_TE_item

Rob

 

 

is that paasche #3?

[Dave G.]

31 minutes ago, Milo said:

is that paasche #3?

Until Rob replies, If you read the fine print it says #3, #1 and #5. Understand that on the later model H like this the #1 and #3 nozzle tip share the same needle. #5 has it's own as well as it's own air cap.

There are model H sets with just the #3 tip but the cost difference isn't significant enough to bother IMO. And I know on my H I do swap heads periodically. Right now it's been set up with the 5 for several months but it had the #1 on it for a year at one point and the 3 many times for months on end. Point being it's nice to have the option.

[Milo]

14 hours ago, Dave G. said:

Until Rob replies, If you read the fine print it says #3, #1 and #5. Understand that on the later model H like this the #1 and #3 nozzle tip share the same needle. #5 has it's own as well as it's own air cap.

There are model H sets with just the #3 tip but the cost difference isn't significant enough to bother IMO. And I know on my H I do swap heads periodically. Right now it's been set up with the 5 for several months but it had the #1 on it for a year at one point and the 3 many times for months on end. Point being it's nice to have the option.

 Where did you find that

[Milo]

On 8/15/2023 at 3:06 PM, robdebie said:

First: I recommend watching this video, showing the 'Donn Yost' method, where all paint is applied in one session. I bought a Paasche H, tried it on all brands of enamel that I have, and it works really well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCKZ_fo4eW0&ab_channel=AndyX

Second: I learned from a book on industrial painting that you need to overcoat before a certain time, or overcoat after a certain time. In the time between, the paint could swell and ripple due to the solvents from the new layer of paint. Now I don't know these times for your paint, but it is good to know this. Or use the 'Donn Yost' method and do it all in one go.

Rob

Does it work with enamel spray cans or with lacquer paints?

[Dave G.]

37 minutes ago, Milo said:

 Where did you find that

I just clicked the link which takes you to the product at Amazon. Scroll down the page and read the fine print of the description, not just the list up next to the picture. It's there before you get to the reviews, if you make it to the reviews you scrolled too far down. I'm on a PC not my phone though, sometimes you don't get all the info at a page with a phone.

The info on shared needles and tips etc that I added is my own info from experience.

[Dave G.]

In my wifes  art work if she brushes varnish, it sometimes eats at her colors and smears. But I can airbrush it on fine. Even lacquer them fine with spray since there is no rubbing action. Just fwiw. You said you brushed the clear.