Electric NASCAR

[The Junkman]

Additionally, I see the EV's having the same problem as the Smart Cars.  Big up front publicity ("Just LOOK at those cute things!") and everyone who wanted one got one.  Then "poof" no one else wanted one.  Also the more exposure the greater recognition of the limitations.  I live just over 100 miles from San Francisco.  With real world usage, I might be able to round trip it but no detours or spur of the moment side trips and there would be very limited reserve in any case.  I'd have to find an open charging station and at best have to block out 30 minutes to an hour for a recharge.  I'll revisit the idea when there is a reliable 600 mile range or so in order to go on trips and recharge while I'm overnighting in a hotel.

[espo]

11 minutes ago, The Junkman said:

Additionally, I see the EV's having the same problem as the Smart Cars.  Big up front publicity ("Just LOOK at those cute things!") and everyone who wanted one got one.  Then "poof" no one else wanted one.  Also the more exposure the greater recognition of the limitations.  I live just over 100 miles from San Francisco.  With real world usage, I might be able to round trip it but no detours or spur of the moment side trips and there would be very limited reserve in any case.  I'd have to find an open charging station and at best have to block out 30 minutes to an hour for a recharge.  I'll revisit the idea when there is a reliable 600 mile range or so in order to go on trips and recharge while I'm overnighting in a hotel.

About your dilemma with available charging stations. We drove from the Kansas City area to visit my wife's brother and his wife for New Years. Most of the highway was a four-lane divided toll road type of roadway with gas stations and snake shops in the center divider every so often. Only saw two that offered charging stations for EV vehicles. I'm thinking this could take a lot of joy out of a long drive if you're in an EV. 

[Joe Handley]

Unless they’re planning a Formula-E like series, I haven’t heard anything about an electric stock car other than the Gibbs Racing “Pit Car” that his teams use to practice pit stops.

 

[1930fordpickup]

Being that I believe NASCAR chased away a large percetage of the original fans with the chase I think they are just about to jump the shark. They are on life support looking for new fans, to empty thier pockets.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I dunno, but NASCAR's been a snoozefest to me for years, ever since all the cars became pretty much the same, with nothing "production" or "stock" about 'em.

BO-ring. 

BO-ring squared if they're running on batteries.

But hey...that's just me. I've got gasoline running in my veins.

[BlackSheep214]

IBTL....

I'm getting Spidey sense this is gonna get political soon enough...

Edited January 28, 2024 by BlackSheep214

[Scott8950]

18 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I dunno, but NASCAR's been a snoozefest to me for years, ever since all the cars became pretty much the same, with nothing "production" or "stock" about 'em.

BO-ring. 

BO-ring squared if they're running on batteries.

But hey...that's just me. I've got gasoline running in my veins.

I agree, i stopped watching years ago.  Paint all the cars white and you can't tell a ford from a toyota.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, BlackSheep214 said:

I'm getting Spidey sense this is gonna get political soon enough...

Doesn't have to. 

I think electric vehicles have a place as a part of a rational vehicle mix, and I've thought so since the 1970s through the mid 1990s, when I was actively involved (on a very small scale) in the whole "alt fuel" thing.

They're great for short trips and commuting in light traffic not far from home.

So far, they don't seem to be a rational replacement for the entire vehicle fleet (as countless YT videos from the US and otherwhere, posted by disgruntled owners, would seem to attest).

Nothing political about it.

Edited January 28, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[BlackSheep214]

I agree. Unless someone makes it

[oldcarfan]

I haven't watched any NASCAR in years, so I might tune in to one of these, but we'll see. Can't you just imagine the pitstops? The guy swoops in off the track, they jack him up, drop the battery pack like a couple of oversized AAs, pop in more and off he goes. If nothing else, maybe it will lead to some advancements in roadgoing EVs.

They could probably try a hybrid too, can you imagine the cheating opportunities that would give the teams?

[Joe Handley]

I’m wondering if they have figured out how to hot swap the batteries, quick charge on top of a strong regen, or just have enough batter that would work on a short track type race and only need to change tires, like Formula 1 has mandated for their series with no fuel ups and just tire changes only.

[iamsuperdan]

On 1/26/2024 at 8:06 PM, BlackSheep214 said:

Do you really got to ask? Picture this… lead car far ahead from the pack, races to finish line, he’s almost there… runs out of charge by mere 10 feet. EPIC FAIL!!!!!  Yeah…. that sounds exciting……

 

Because a gas powered race car has never run out of fuel on the last lap.

Runs out of gas...totally boring.

 

 

 

On 1/27/2024 at 7:41 AM, BlackSheep214 said:

Not anymore. The Big Three auto makers have already said they are no longer going to manufacture EV automobiles. They’re already losing millions of $$$$ already with current EVs unsold on dealer lots across the country.

Incorrect. Most manufacturers, including GM and Ford have stated they are scaling back production, but not stopping it. EVERY manufacturer does this based on supply and demand. Chrysler with the Hellcat powered cars, Honda with the NSX, Toyota with the new Supra, Nissan with the GTR and new Z, etc. Initial demand for a new product is always high. And then after a year or two of production, and the pre-orders and wait lists have been supplied, demand drops to normal levels, and production scales back.

 Supply and demand. A novel concept.

https://www.investopedia.com/ford-scales-back-electric-truck-production-as-ev-demand-slows-8536161

https://www.marketplace.org/2023/11/02/ev-demand-production-reality-check/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/gm-earnings-outlook-1.7043345#:~:text=Business-,GM scales back electric vehicle and self-driving car plans,it almost %249.3 billion US.

https://www.convenience.org/Media/Daily/2023/October/30/1-Automakers-Alter-EV-Plans_Fuel

 

[iamsuperdan]

21 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Doesn't have to. 

I think electric vehicles have a place as a part of a rational vehicle mix, and I've thought so since the 1970s through the mid 1990s, when I was actively involved (on a very small scale) in the whole "alt fuel" thing.

They're great for short trips and commuting in light traffic not far from home.

So far, they don't seem to be a rational replacement for the entire vehicle fleet (as countless YT videos from the US and otherwhere, posted by disgruntled owners, would seem to attest).

Nothing political about it.

 

Exactly. EV are an excellent choice for some, and a poor choice for others. EVs excel at some things, and lag behind in others.

It's just another "fuel" source to choose from.

 

[1930fordpickup]

Going faster uses more power the faster you go. Gas or electric makes no difference right?

So how are they going to get 200 to 300 miles on a charge or set of batteries for a 500 mile race? That is what does not add up to me. I have. Few ideas of how they would cange a pack swimming in my head,  just don't think it would be like a 9 volt connection. 

[iamsuperdan]

14 hours ago, 1930fordpickup said:

Going faster uses more power the faster you go. Gas or electric makes no difference right?

So how are they going to get 200 to 300 miles on a charge or set of batteries for a 500 mile race? That is what does not add up to me. I have. Few ideas of how they would cange a pack swimming in my head,  just don't think it would be like a 9 volt connection. 

 

A Formula E race is similar to an F1, Formula 2, or Formula 3 race, but has been shortened. Instead of one long race over a weekend, they do two shorter races. 

If an e-NASCAR series comes to fruition, they'd have to change the format. 

Ultimately, it would have to be a completely different format than what NASCAR is now. 

Using a music metaphor, the e-race would be the opening/warmup band, while the NASCAR race is the headliner.

Much like how a Formula 1 race weekend has a Formula 2 race, a Formula 3 race, and (in Europe) the Porsche Supercup race. 

 

For the amount of money it costs for a weekend pass to a race, I think any additional racing you can see can only be a good thing.

[Force]

One thing that bugs me with this EV racing thing is that much of the engineering side of the racing is gone, how do you tune an electric motor...all are pretty much the same.
With a combustion engine someone has to build it mechanically and tune it to work as good as it can, there are 3 manufacturers and even tho' the engines are built to the same basic specs they are all different and doesn't perform the same.
I tried to watch some races in the Formula E series...but no it's not anything I will watch any more as something is missing, so for me it's a waste of time.

[iamsuperdan]

21 hours ago, Force said:

 how do you tune an electric motor...all are pretty much the same.
 

1. battery upgrade - increase capacity, or run at a higher voltage

2. additional motors or replacing with more powerful motors or internal parts

3. computer management - software tuning is already a big part of new builds. Modern LS, or a Coyote are prime examples.

4. inverter mods

5. battery cooling

 

All of those can extract more power and performance from an EV.

It's how Tesla, Ford, Porsche, Audi, etc can offer variants of their EVs with higher performance.

 

[gasman]

I think it's the manufactures wanting this more than NASCAR. I highly doubt we will see anything other than V8's in the cup series for a very long time. but I could see the Xfinity series going full electric. people are going to hate the fact though that it's not a car. but an SUV, 

Edited February 1, 2024 by gasman

[deuces wild]

On 1/26/2024 at 6:41 PM, webestang said:

If I wanted to watch electric racing I'd set up my slot car track. 

Yep! I got plenty of Aurora HO cars for that...??

[Ace-Garageguy]

Why not just go totally green and safe and have a realistic virtual series where the drivers compete online using joysticks and keyboards, or even specially developed VR-feedback-equipped gaming console stations that have foot-throttle and brake inputs, steering, simulated G-forces, etc., and the millions of onlookers clamoring for thrills and spills can pay to watch on their 72-inch screens while they sit on the couch downing prodigious quantities of pizza, chips, and beer delivered by Uber Eats?

Car sounds could be tailored by each individual viewer to simulate ICE or EV propulsion, depending on their taste.

That is, after all, the future we seem to be moving to. Let's just get on with it.

Racing in the Matrix. Thrilling indeed.

[iamsuperdan]

7 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Why not just go totally green and safe and have a realistic virtual series where the drivers compete online using joysticks and keyboards, or even specially developed VR-feedback-equipped gaming console stations that have foot-throttle and brake inputs, steering, simulated G-forces, etc., and the millions of onlookers clamoring for thrills and spills can pay to watch on their 72-inch screens while they sit on the couch downing prodigious quantities of pizza, chips, and beer delivered by Uber Eats?

Car sounds could be tailored by each individual viewer to simulate ICE or EV propulsion, depending on their taste.

That is, after all, the future we seem to be moving to. Let's just get on with it.

Racing in the Matrix. Thrilling indeed.

 

 

The sad thing is...that exists. 

They did it during the dark times of 2020-2021.

Real racecar drivers, virtual racing, and people actually paid and/or tuned in to watch the "live" racing.

 

To be fair, the system they used has some pretty fantastic graphics and simulations. And it technically was real drivers using their skills. 

It was kind of interesting, but not something I'd be excited about.

 

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.formula-1-launches-virtual-grand-prix-series-to-replace-postponed-races.1znLAbPzBbCQPj1IDMeiOi.html

 

 

[BlackSheep214]

On 1/27/2024 at 5:44 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

I dunno, but NASCAR's been a snoozefest to me for years, ever since all the cars became pretty much the same, with nothing "production" or "stock" about 'em.

BO-ring. 

BO-ring squared if they're running on batteries.

But hey...that's just me. I've got gasoline running in my veins.

NASCAR is boring to me too. Watching a bunch of race cars going in circles... yeah reeeaal exciting.

I've always called NASCAR a redneck sport. ROFL !

Now Motocross dirt bike racing I'll watch. Different class of motocross events. Watching the start gun go off and a mass of bikes bunch up, a few crash, get right back up and go. Gotta love the big air hotdogging when they cross the finish line.

Edited February 2, 2024 by BlackSheep214

[TarheelRick]

One topic that has not been discussed with EV NASCAR is what happens during the "Big One" at Daytona or Talladega.  What will be the carnage when three or more of these cars collide at 190+ mph, does a couple of end-over-end flips, or maybe five or six barrel rolls? Not sure how these toxic battery packs would react to such violence.

[Tabbysdaddy]

1 hour ago, TarheelRick said:

One topic that has not been discussed with EV NASCAR is what happens during the "Big One" at Daytona or Talladega.  What will be the carnage when three or more of these cars collide at 190+ mph, does a couple of end-over-end flips, or maybe five or six barrel rolls? Not sure how these toxic battery packs would react to such violence.

Sounds like a good reason to watch.

[Bainford]

On 1/30/2024 at 10:58 AM, iamsuperdan said:

 

Ultimately, it would have to be a completely different format than what NASCAR is now. 

I'm not so sure it would. They have those stupid 'competition yellows', which seem utterly pointless. With EVs, at least there would be a (legitimate) reason to have them.

Not that it matters much to me anyway. I was a diehard NASCAR fan through the 80s and 90s, but I did eventually get fed up with so many aspects of NASCAR that I quite watching in 2000.

I have watched a few Formula E races, but I just can't get into it.