Lathe?

[Ace-Garageguy]

47 minutes ago, atomicholiday said:

So let me ask you guys this.  What are the really small lathes you see watch makers using ?  Maybe I’m not even thinking of an actual lathe?

I saw one recently that was belt driven, and the motor sat behind the machine.

They're called "watchmakers lathes". Who wooda thunk? 

Search the term on google. All the info you could want.

Edited February 5, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[atomicholiday]

24 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

They're called "watchmakers lathes". Who wooda thunk? 

Search the term on google. All the info you could want.

Go figure.?

[Straightliner59]

I noticed the box "complete tap set". I can only imagine how tiny some of those must be. Those guys do most of that work with a graver on a rest. It's pretty mind-blowing, when you consider the accuracy they achieve.

[Ace-Garageguy]

9 minutes ago, Straightliner59 said:

I noticed the box "complete tap set". I can only imagine how tiny some of those must be. Those guys do most of that work with a graver on a rest. It's pretty mind-blowing, when you consider the accuracy they achieve.

And then consider the first watches were made in the very early 1500s, and the first wristwatch was made around 1810.

[Straightliner59]

2 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

And then consider the first watches were made in the very early 1500s, and the first wristwatch was made around 1810.

These motors make things so much easier! Treadles were so annoying! They got the job done, but, just saying!?

[bobss396]

I worked with a couple of old timers (I was 26, they were around 57...) that worked at the Bulova plant on Long Island. These guys were able to make ridiculously small parts with great precision. I guess the plant folded up in the early 1970s. They did a lot of precision instruments for the military.

[NOBLNG]

14 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

They're called "watchmakers lathes". Who wooda thunk? 

Search the term on google. All the info you could want.

Pricey little things! But, you get what you pay for I guess…absolutely no margin for error in watchmaking.

[Bainford]

Has anyone here ever used a watchmakers lathe? I've been curious about these little lathes for years, but they all seem as though they would be subject to chatter. The single fixing point under the headstock, to be attached to the bench or vise, looks like some flexibility would be incurred in the whole assembly, promoting chatter in the cut.

[Ace-Garageguy]

3 hours ago, Bainford said:

Has anyone here ever used a watchmakers lathe? I've been curious about these little lathes for years, but they all seem as though they would be subject to chatter. The single fixing point under the headstock, to be attached to the bench or vise, looks like some flexibility would be incurred in the whole assembly, promoting chatter in the cut.

 

With the extreme precision watch parts require, I'm reasonably certain any tendency to chatter has been dealt with.

Amazing what you can find on YT...

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

And speaking of precision lathes and ancient technology...

 

[Straightliner59]

I just saw an amazing deal on Ebay. If you're in the market for Sherline equipment, and have the means, this is a steal!:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/176224810339

[bobss396]

6 hours ago, Straightliner59 said:

I just saw an amazing deal on Ebay. If you're in the market for Sherline equipment, and have the means, this is a steal!:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/176224810339

That is not terrible and looks like a lot of good stuff. I will probably hold out for just a Sherline lathe, although something shorter (more compact) is all I need. I believe I'll rarely do anything past 4" long and I would be happy using mainly collets. I have a bunch of smaller tool blanks I have made up over the years, along with some boring bars in custom holders. Those I used on the bigger Hardinge lathes.

[Ace-Garageguy]

11 hours ago, Straightliner59 said:

I just saw an amazing deal on Ebay. If you're in the market for Sherline equipment, and have the means, this is a steal!:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/176224810339

Thanks for the heads-up...looks like somebody already bought it.

[Straightliner59]

10 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Thanks for the heads-up...looks like somebody already bought it.

That's not surprising. If I'd had the extra $1200, I would have, even given all the stuff I already have. Earlier this afternoon, I saw a Sherline lathe for $200. There were no accessories with it, though.

[Aaronw]

I also have a watchmakers lathe, made by the Waltham Watch Tool Co sometime between 1890 and 1914. It was kind of an impulse buy because it was only 10 minutes from home and a great deal. I got the working lathe with motor, a cool jewelers desk and a bunch of jewelers and watchmakers tools and tooling for the lathe for $500.

 

Pros - They are small, light weight and assuming they have been properly cared for they are very accurate lathes. The classic "8mm W-W (Webster-Whitcomb) style watchmakers lathe" like the one pictured above are pretty universal, so parts and tooling exchanges between brands liberally for the most part. They cost more than first appearances, but there are bargains out there if you are patient and quick when one turns up. Because of the type of work they were made for owners tend to be very meticulous in their care and use. 

  

Cons - They are fairly delicate, so it is easy for a careless prior owner to ruin them. Prices can be deceptive, you will see watchmakers lathes sometimes for as little as $250 making them seem like a budget lathe. That will usually just get you a bare lathe maybe not even a motor. What you get may be useless without spending a lot more money. Not unusual to find well equipped watchmakers lathes in the $2000-3000 range, particularly for one from a well known maker, if Swiss or German made add another 10-20% to the price. Considering that there are only a handful of manufacturers that still make these lathes, and the starting new prices run $9000+, then $2000 for a used one is actually quite a bargain. 

They are made to be mounted to a solid base, so not really portable. The base lathe is intended for use with collets, so the maximum size of round stock is limited to 8mm / 5/16". Collets have a very narrow holding range of about 0.1mm / 1/64" so you need a pretty decent number of collets. Collets are not cheap, used you may find decent ones around $5-10 each, new $40+ so if you get the lathe without collets, you can easily spend as much as the lathe for a useful size set of collets.

The basic lathe also just comes with a simple tool rest for hand working material like a wood working lathe, not a cross slide like most other metal lathes. You can get chucks, cross slides and other accessories, but they are very expensive and often cost more than the lathe itself.

They have a very small working size, generally 50mm (2") swing and 4-8" between centers.

Edited February 9, 2024 by Aaronw

[Aaronw]

On 2/5/2024 at 5:48 AM, Ulf said:

Anyone who has experience with the Proxxon Micromot FD 150/E Lathe ?

 

These are not common in the US, and very expensive over here compared to other small lathes. Based on comments from a Unimat list I belong to the Proxxon PD250/E lathe is pretty good, but comments about the 150 were not nearly so complementary. In the USA the 250/E retails for around $1800 making it much more expensive than other options. Pricing in Europe may be better since it is a local product.

[Bainford]

1 hour ago, Aaronw said:

I also have a watchmakers lathe, made by the Waltham Watch Tool Co sometime between 1890 and 1914. It was kind of an impulse buy because it was only 10 minutes from home and a great deal. I got the working lathe with motor, a cool jewelers desk and a bunch of jewelers and watchmakers tools and tooling for the lathe for $500.

 

Pros - They are small, light weight and assuming they have been properly cared for they are very accurate lathes. The classic "8mm W-W (Webster-Whitcomb) style watchmakers lathe" like the one pictured above are pretty universal, so parts and tooling exchanges between brands liberally for the most part. They cost more than first appearances, but there are bargains out there if you are patient and quick when one turns up. Because of the type of work they were made for owners tend to be very meticulous in their care and use. 

  

Cons - They are fairly delicate, so it is easy for a careless prior owner to ruin them. Prices can be deceptive, you will see watchmakers lathes sometimes for as little as $250 making them seem like a budget lathe. That will usually just get you a bare lathe maybe not even a motor. What you get may be useless without spending a lot more money. Not unusual to find well equipped watchmakers lathes in the $2000-3000 range, particularly for one from a well known maker, if Swiss or German made add another 10-20% to the price. Considering that there are only a handful of manufacturers that still make these lathes, and the starting new prices run $9000+, then $2000 for a used one is actually quite a bargain. 

They are made to be mounted to a solid base, so not really portable. The base lathe is intended for use with collets, so the maximum size of round stock is limited to 8mm / 5/16". Collets have a very narrow holding range of about 0.1mm / 1/64" so you need a pretty decent number of collets. Collets are not cheap, used you may find decent ones around $5-10 each, new $40+ so if you get the lathe without collets, you can easily spend as much as the lathe for a useful size set of collets.

The basic lathe also just comes with a simple tool rest for hand working material like a wood working lathe, not a cross slide like most other metal lathes. You can get chucks, cross slides and other accessories, but they are very expensive and often cost more than the lathe itself.

They have a very small working size, generally 50mm (2") swing and 4-8" between centers.

Very helpful information Aaron. Thanks for the comprehensive reply. 

[Ulf]

42 minutes ago, Aaronw said:

 

These are not common in the US, and very expensive over here compared to other small lathes. Based on comments from a Unimat list I belong to the Proxxon PD250/E lathe is pretty good, but comments about the 150 were not nearly so complementary. In the USA the 250/E retails for around $1800 making it much more expensive than other options. Pricing in Europe may be better since it is a local product.

Thanks for the input, I will buy a small lathe in the spring, it will probably be mostly small adjustments.

[Aaronw]

If you want to know more about actually operating machine tools, these two youtubers have a lot of great videos.

Mr Pete is a retired high school shop teacher who has been on youtube "forever" so he literally has hundreds of videos.

Blondihacks is just a hobbyist and much more recent (so not as many videos), but she breaks things down in a way I find very easy to follow. She also has very good production quality so it is easy to see what she is talking about. 

There are a ton of good machining oriented youtubers, but I find these two to be the best for explaining basic operations.

 

https://www.youtube.com/@mrpete222

 

https://www.youtube.com/@Blondihacks