Brush painting Tamiya acrylics?

[Monty]

There's a builder on YouTube who uses Tamiya acrylics (particularly XF-56 Metallic Gray) on chassis parts, and I'm kinda curious how he's doing it.  My one experience (years ago) with them was frustrating because I was trying to "work" them like I would an enamel, but they started to dry too quickly for that and more or less pulled up the paint I had applied.  OTOH, they seem to allow him to work the paint, and I don't seem any evidence of Mr Color leveling thinner or any similar product.  Am I missing something simple?  

[ColonelKrypton]

5 minutes ago, Monty said:

Am I missing something simple?

Hard to say. Post a link to one of his youtube videos so we can have a look.

Could be he is adding some retarder. Tamiya product number 87114 is the retarder for Tamiya acrylics. I would also use the Tamiya X-20A thinner as well rather than distilled water.  Follow Tamiya's instructions.  I found it made a real difference.

cheers, Graham 

[DaveB]

I was researching this very issue yesterday as I've experienced the same thing with Tamiya acrylics. From what I found a possible solution is to mix in some Tamiya thinner as it contains a retarder to slow the drying time. Even though I just spent a decent chunk of money on Tamiya acrylics (just got back into modelling) I'm seriously considering replacing them all with lacquer even though they stink and it's harder to clean the brushes. I just bought a jar of Tamiya acrylic flat aluminum and the coverage is awful, must have 2 coats which ends up with the 1st paint layer being pulled.

[Monty]

Here's a link.  Go to 34:55. 

 Again, in my one experience with Tamiya acrylic, I couldn't have done what he's doing here. 

[Brutalform]

It appears that he is using a Testors product, and not Tamiya. 

[Monty]

17 minutes ago, Brutalform said:

It appears that he is using a Testors product, and not Tamiya. 

Watch as he paints the gas tank.  He's using XF-56 Metallic Gray.  

[Matt T.]

37 minutes ago, Monty said:

Watch as he paints the gas tank.  He's using XF-56 Metallic Gray.  

He moves quickly, which is important with Tamiya acrylics, in my experience. He paints the entire gas tank in 23 seconds. Any more time messing around with it will produce what you found - marring, pulling up, etc. 

If I can't get the coverage I want in about this amount of time, I wait 30-60 minutes and recoat. Hope this helps. Model on!

[Dave G.]

Tamiya recommends using their retarder to cut the acrylic paints with for brushing. It's right at their web site. But I use Liquitex retarder fluid and it does fine.

The other tip is using lapping strokes, not over lapping strokes. Thinning with retarder a bit ( say 30% or so), then using lapping strokes the paint flows together.

[bobss396]

He's using a wide brush too, allowing him to cover more area quickly. I have to look for the Tamiya retarder. I struggle with brush painting.

[Ulf]

Painting with acrylic/water-based paints requires a different technique.
Firstly, it needs something to stick to, not only to hold it once it has dried but also when it is applied, a primer. I am currently trying to learn how to brush paint Vallejo's primer.
The paint itself has to be applied rather than brushed out if you want to benefit from self-leveling.

Is it good, is it fun?
It's not fast, but it's getting better and better for me.
Vallejo primer in the right color helps because the paint is thin.

Our beloved cat has problems with his tear ducts so I do not dare to airbrush even though I have suction etc. but it will have to wait until we get to the summer cottage.

 

[ColonelKrypton]

11 hours ago, Matt T. said:

wait 30-60 minutes and recoat

That is common practice brush painting acrylics - several thin coats vs one heavy one.  I am still learning, trying to break that "gotta cover in one coat" mentality.

This is common subject matter for topics on Britmodeller. The focus there is primarily aircraft and military vehicles but the techniques of painting are all the same.

This is a youtube link to someone who brush paints exclusively and uses Tamiya acrylics:  

 

 

And this a link to one such topic on Britmodeller ( there are many more if you care to search )

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235136960-tamiya-acrylic/

 

cheers, Graham

[Beans]

I brush paint a lot of interior and detail parts.  I actually enjoy the brush painting as it allows me to take my time and relax more with the model.  

Multiple thin coats is the key.  I will sometimes just do one coat a day over several days.  

It's monotonous but works for me. 

That being said, I don't brush Tamiya paints.  I have tried, didn't like it and only spray them now. 

[Pierre Rivard]

I agree, multiple  coats with thinned paint works best for brush painting, especially large surfaces. I brush paint everything, even the body. I've tried to make it work with Tamiya. It works good on small parts but on large surfaces it is mission impossible because each layer bites into the previous one causing issues. Tamiya is an acrylic but has a co-solvent in. I suggest a true 100% water based acrylic for brush painting large surfaces. My favorite is Vallejo.

This model is entirely brush painted. Takes a while to develop the technique but it is doable.

 

[NOBLNG]

5 minutes ago, Pierre Rivard said:

I agree, multiple  coats with thinned paint works best for brush painting, especially large surfaces. I brush paint everything, even the body. I've tried to make it work with Tamiya. It works good on small parts but on large surfaces it is mission impossible because each layer bites into the previous one causing issues. Tamiya is an acrylic but has a co-solvent in. I suggest a true 100% water based acrylic for brush painting large surfaces. My favorite is Vallejo.

This model is entirely brush painted. Takes a while to develop the technique but it is doable.

 

That looks super!? I imagine there is some wet sanding (can you wet sand water based acrylics?) and polishing involved….any clear coat?

[Pierre Rivard]

9 hours ago, NOBLNG said:

That looks super!? I imagine there is some wet sanding (can you wet sand water based acrylics?) and polishing involved….any clear coat?

A bit wet sanding the primer but I never touch the color coat. Acrylic clear over the color which has received Tamiya fine and finish compound rub before decals, and then Quick Shine floor polish to seal the decals. Quick Shine is not super shiny but I find it a good match for period race cars like this one. If you can't spray your models then brush painting can be done as an alternative but it takes more time with all these steps... but this is a pastime right?

[bh1701]

As others have mentioned, use a Retarder. I use the Tamiya one. Makes a big difference - the paint flows on much better and doesn't dry as fast. I was originally not a big fan of Tamiya acrylics - until I started using their retarder which changed my whole experience. Painting over Primer is also advised.

Bart

[Andrew McD]

13 hours ago, bh1701 said:

As others have mentioned, use a Retarder. I use the Tamiya one. Makes a big difference - the paint flows on much better and doesn't dry as fast. I was originally not a big fan of Tamiya acrylics - until I started using their retarder which changed my whole experience. Painting over Primer is also advised.

Bart

Hallo Bart,
What is your ratio of paint to retarder?  I have some Tamiya retarder and need a starting point for trying this.

Thanks,

Andrew

[bh1701]

On 3/22/2024 at 8:13 AM, Andrew McD said:

Hallo Bart,
What is your ratio of paint to retarder?  I have some Tamiya retarder and need a starting point for trying this.

Thanks,

Andrew

Andrew,

You need to use only a little bit of retarder. Tamiya's website suggests the mix ratio is 10-1 (10 Paint – 1 Retarder).

However, I am not as scientific about it. I usually put a little paint in a soda or water bottle plastic cap, and then add a drop or two of retarder and mix it together. If it still seems to be too thick to work with, I'll add another drop or two.

Bart

 

Edited March 23, 2024 by bh1701
Correct typing

[Dave G.]

Besides pre mixing the retarder and paint in a specific ratio, I've found wetting the brush with retarder, then picking up the paint onto the brush to work quite well. It's an acquired skill that you learn very quickly if you pay attention. Same as I'd do in oil painting for more flow with linseed or stand oil on the brush, or even mineral spirits, then pick up the oil based paint . Great for long runs of tree trunks or limbs, the paint flows right off the brush. Well, retarder and Tamiya acrylic work similarly, the paint flows right off the brush and levels.

But most paints can take up to 30% of some additives or thinners and not break the structure of the paint. It's kind of a generic percentage. Whether or not there is any gain between say 10% and 30%, or loss for that matter, is another topic lol. You'll generally be safe in that range, and the paint may even be able to take more. There comes a point where you lose film and opacity though.

Edited March 24, 2024 by Dave G.

[midlineqb]

On 3/20/2024 at 8:55 AM, Beans said:

I brush paint a lot of interior and detail parts.  I actually enjoy the brush painting as it allows me to take my time and relax more with the model.  

Multiple thin coats is the key.  I will sometimes just do one coat a day over several days.  

It's monotonous but works for me. 

That being said, I don't brush Tamiya paints.  I have tried, didn't like it and only spray them now. 

What paint do you use to brush on? What size and kind of brush do you use? Thanks in advance.

[DanL]

Just bought a bunch of Tamiya LP (Lacquer) paint because I had heard good things about them. The various blacks and greys as well as silver are really beautiful paint for brushing but the colors such as white , yellow, orange etc. are very poor... more like thin soup than paint. The lacquer goes on smoothly and levels out nicely and the gloss black and semi gloss black really pop. The best thing is they dry quickly (! hour) as opposed to enamels which stay sticky for days. Biggest drawback is brush cleaning ...bit of a pain... I've started using Isopropyl alcohol for cleaning and it seems OK. My favorites were LP-48, LP-40, and LP-38.

 

Cheers

Dan

[bobss396]

I've been using mostly Vallejo acrylics to brush on for small-ish details.

I'll squeeze some into a bottle cap, add a drop or 2 of water. It is thick right out if the bottle. It covers well, I do give things a 2nd coat most of the time.

[Beans]

12 hours ago, midlineqb said:

What paint do you use to brush on? What size and kind of brush do you use? Thanks in advance.

I tend to experiment as lot so I use a variety of paints.  Craft paints, testors little jars, vallejo, green stuff world, Citadel and other wargaming paints.  

I go through brushes a lot.  I use everything from cheapo ones for small but not delicate applications, to artist brushes.  I will get a pack of brushes in various sizes from Hobby Lobby or Michaels and go through them rather quickly, but also use finer brushes used by a lot of the small figure painters.  Honestly, most of my brushes come from family as gifts for birthday and such.  Some people gets socks and underwear as the standard gift, for me it's small paintbrushes.

[bobss396]

One of my brother's neighbors was in the brush business, gave us a bunch some years ago. All quality sables. I do need to get more #00 though.

I did some Vallejo before without thinning it... no bueno. It washed off well and will thin it on my next attempt. 

[DiscoRover007]

Personally, Vallejo is hands down my favorite acrylic to brush paint with. it doesn't leave any strokes at all. Tamiya acrylics can be used with a retarder, but you'd get better results with their enamel line. Tamiya acrylics definitely have their place. I love their acrylic flat aluminum when I need a casted and grainy look. Mainly for engines.