60/61 Imperial roof

[hedotwo]

Would anyone know if the AMT 60 and 61 Imperial HT roof has been re-popped?  They look the same to my eye?

Thanks!

[StevenGuthmiller]

The ‘60 and ‘61 Imperial kits had separately tooled bodies for the hard tops and convertibles.

There were no separate tops.

 

 

 

Steve

Edited May 8, 2024 by StevenGuthmiller

[hedotwo]

I guess I thought the HT had those notches that accepted the stock hardtop, and that if you wanted you could install that custom half top.  The instruction sheet for the HT calls out a "stock top" and says to install it.  Not sure what that means.  I have a convertible that has the notches and I thought maybe there was a separate hardtop that I could use.

Learned something new I guess.

Thanks Steve!

Edited May 8, 2024 by hedotwo

[StevenGuthmiller]

3 hours ago, hedotwo said:

I guess I thought the HT had those notches that accepted the stock hardtop, and that if you wanted you could install that custom half top.  The instruction sheet for the HT calls out a "stock top" and says to install it.  Not sure what that means.  I have a convertible that has the notches and I thought maybe there was a separate hardtop that I could use.

Learned something new I guess.

Thanks Steve!

Well, in retrospect, I suppose it’s possible that the ‘61 may have been offered with the separate top.

I may have been too hasty in my observation, as I don’t have a ‘61.

But I do have 60 and a ‘62 Imperial hard tops, and they’re molded to the body. 
I guess I just assumed that they wouldn’t produce a dedicated hard top in ‘60, revert to the separate top in ‘61, and then back to the molded in top in ‘62, but I suppose it’s possible.

 

 

 

Steve

[hedotwo]

I agree it doesn't make sense Steve.

[Mark]

AMT/SMP did some goofy stuff back then.  Since the 1959 kit has been reissued, it would seem that the '60 was an entirely new tool which was then altered to produce '61, '62, and so on.  I do believe the '61 has a separate roof for the hardtop.

It's amazing that Chrysler actually ordered Imperial convertible promos in those years, because they sold so few 1:1 convertibles.  Then again, Ford ordered '60 Edsel promos when they knew they were pulling the plug on the car even before the '59 came out.

[StevenGuthmiller]

16 minutes ago, Mark said:

AMT/SMP did some goofy stuff back then.  Since the 1959 kit has been reissued, it would seem that the '60 was an entirely new tool which was then altered to produce '61, '62, and so on.  I do believe the '61 has a separate roof for the hardtop.

That was what confused me.

After 1959, I don't understand why they would produce separate convertible and hard top kits in 1960, then go back to producing a combined convertible/hard top kit again in '61, and then return again to the separate hard top and convertible kits in '62, especially being as all 3 years shared the same roof design.

Usually there's some sort of pattern that you can follow with these old annuals, but apparently not in this case. 

 

 

 

Steve

[Mark]

'61 Imperials were SMP.  SMP was a separate company (albeit with investment by AMT) though they were joined at the hip marketing-wise.  I believe they had at least some separate engineering staff, as there are differences in design.  SMP kit bodies tend to not be as thick as AMT in panel thickness, and most also seem to be roughly finished on the inside compared to AMT.

SMP was bought out by AMT in August 1961.  A handful of '62 Imperial convertible kits came in SMP branded boxes (identical to AMT but for the similar logo).  About half of the Styline '62 Valiant kits are in SMP boxes, with the rest AMT.  If you have a '62 Impala annual kit (either hardtop or convertible), check the little custom license plate on the plated tree...it still has "SMP" on it.

[StevenGuthmiller]

3 hours ago, Mark said:

'61 Imperials were SMP.  SMP was a separate company (albeit with investment by AMT) though they were joined at the hip marketing-wise.  I believe they had at least some separate engineering staff, as there are differences in design.  SMP kit bodies tend to not be as thick as AMT in panel thickness, and most also seem to be roughly finished on the inside compared to AMT.

SMP was bought out by AMT in August 1961.  A handful of '62 Imperial convertible kits came in SMP branded boxes (identical to AMT but for the similar logo).  About half of the Styline '62 Valiant kits are in SMP boxes, with the rest AMT.  If you have a '62 Impala annual kit (either hardtop or convertible), check the little custom license plate on the plated tree...it still has "SMP" on it.

But that does little to explain the differences in the roof construction.

My ‘60 Imperial was produced by SMP, as you say the ‘61 was, yet the SMP ‘60 shares the same construction as the AMT ‘62.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[SfanGoch]

I have an SMP '61 Imperial with a separate HT from the same vendor that the '62 came from.

[Ace-Garageguy]

7 minutes ago, SfanGoch said:

I have an SMP '61 Imperial with a separate HT from the same vendor that the '62 came from.

Yup. Clearly a separate part in this shot of the '61.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/61-imperial-25-smp-amt-original-1852404910

As to why...who knows?

Edited May 9, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[Mark]

SMP waffled on the "separate roof for hardtops" thing.  The '59 Impala annual also used a separate roof for the hardtop, as did the '61 Corvair (which lacked door frames/pillars as it should have been a coupe).

I can't recall any AMT annual kit of that period having a separate hardtop roof.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Nothing to see here folks.

 

Edited May 10, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

The '61 acetate promo version had a separate top as well (you can see the telltale lines if you look carefully), which one would expect, as the body tooling was the same as the annual kits.

That’s a ‘60.

I would certainly think that the promo would have been molded from the same molds as the kit with a stationary top.

 

 

Steve

[Ace-Garageguy]

33 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

That’s a ‘60.

I would certainly think that the promo would have been molded from the same molds as the kit with a stationary top.Steve

OK. You're right. I'm wrong.

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

OK. You're right. I'm wrong.

I’m not trying to be difficult Bill.

It was just a simple statement of fact.

The photo you posted was a ‘60.

My assumption was that you meant to post a photo of a ‘61.

I just thought that you might like to have the opportunity to make that correction in lieu of the fact that the ‘60 does in fact have a molded in top.

 

 

 

Steve

Edited May 10, 2024 by StevenGuthmiller

[Ace-Garageguy]

17 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I’m not trying to be difficult Bill.

It was just a simple statement of fact.

The photo you posted was a ‘60.

My assumption was that you meant to post a photo of a ‘61.

I just thought that you might like to have the opportunity to make that correction in lieu of the fact that the ‘60 does in fact have a molded in top.

And thanks for mentioning it yet again. 

I WAS WRONG. I POSTED A SHOT OF A '60 AND NOT A '61, AND MISINTERPRETED THE MOLD LINES AS SEAMS.

I AM SO VERY VERY ASHAMED. 

I'M GOING TO CRY NOW.  

Edited May 10, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy