Coming Soon from Atomic City's JoHan line of new kits

[mikos]

On 8/23/2024 at 9:02 PM, bobthehobbyguy said:

Or buy lottery tickets. Just don't see that there's that much money to be made for such limited appeal niche kits.

There’s a lot of appeal for those old Cadillacs, Oldsmobiles and the American Motors stuff like the Javelin and AMX.  Remember, those Cadillacs can be made into low riders if that building option exists.  Look at the Revell Caddy Coupe deVille or Lindberg’s hopping’ ‘79 Caddy.  Yeah, the Revell version is diecast based I believe, but they saw enough ROI to do it in plastic and in 1/25 scale which is not common for diecast.

Edited August 26, 2024 by mikos

[mikos]

On 8/24/2024 at 8:16 AM, Mark C. said:

While all of these discussions are great, at the end of the day we all vote with our wallets, and the folks who are actually in the business and want to stay there will know what makes money and what doesn’t.

While I  enjoy discussing all the different kits I’d like to see, I have to say that I am more than happy with the state of the hobby these days, in that we get to see kits that I never would have dreamed of just 10 years ago.  If it takes 40 different iterations of Camaros and Mustangs to do so, then “have at it”!  I will get some of those as well.

I wish the folks at Atomic all the success that they deserve.  Even if I can’t afford their products at the moment, there is a market for them and I hope they can continue to grow their business.  If they actually get to the point (and I don’t know if that’s their intention) of producing regular plastic Jo-Han kits someday, I will be over the moon, and will buy all that my budget allows.  In the meantime, I will say “keep up the good work!”, and continue to watch from the sidelines… ??

What kits you never dreamed of?  ‘71-‘73 Riviera?  Nope, not in plastic.  ‘73-‘77 Grand Prix?  Nope, the closest we got was the ‘77 Monte Carlo from Revell.   69-‘72 Grand Prix?  Nope, not yet until Round 2 clones it or fixes the original “Kotter” tooling if it can be done. ‘70-‘73 Trans Am?  Not in 1/25th scale except for the expensive MPC 1971 annual if you don’t count the Revell version.  What about the ‘80-‘81 Camaro Z28 in 1/25th?  Not yet until the ProStreet ‘81 Camaro gets here, if it ever gets here.

The Atomic City resin kits will be just another boutique resin effort that has been done before by other resin casters.  $150+ for no chrome is steep.  There are resin casters that sell on ebay that offer chrome bumpers/wheels and contrasting colored chassis parts (black) at that price point.   The only difference I see here is the name rights ownership that Atomic City will have concerning the “Johan” name.  I don’t think their expensive “made to order” resin kit offerings on Facebook is going  translate into them making plastic kits from cloned tooling of the originals in the future.  I just don’t see it.

Edited August 26, 2024 by mikos

[Justin Porter]

20 minutes ago, mikos said:

What kits you never dreamed of?

MkI Escort RS1600. Lancia Delta S4. 1886 Benz Patent Motorwagen. Citroen DS21. 1961 Pontiac Catalina. Land Rover Series III. Nissan R91CP. Brabham BT-18. Pagani Zonda C12. Tour-type asphalt modified. Dallara DW-12 Indycar. STOCK Ford Model A Phaeton. 

Just because YOU aren't getting the kits that YOU want doesn't mean other folks aren't having dreams fulfilled.

[Mark C.]

2 hours ago, mikos said:

What kits you never dreamed of? 

All the old kits for which the tooling was not supposed to exist any longer, or had been updated for year model changes.  For example: ‘68 Coronet, ‘71 Demon, Nova wagon, ‘68 GTO, ‘60 and ‘63 Ford pickups, etc., etc.

I am nothing but pleased to see these back on the shelves again.  Collector pricing had made them unreachable for me.  What’s not to be happy about?

[bobthehobbyguy]

2 hours ago, Mark C. said:

All the old kits for which the tooling was not supposed to exist any longer, or had been updated for year model changes.  For example: ‘68 Coronet, ‘71 Demon, Nova wagon, ‘68 GTO, ‘60 and ‘63 Ford pickups, etc., etc.

Funny how everybody says they don't want to build more corvettes, camaros, and Mustangs and none of them are on that list!!

 

[Mark C.]

1 hour ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

Funny how everybody says they don't want to build more corvettes, camaros, and Mustangs and none of them are on that list!!

 

I did get the R2 cloned '66 Mustang FB as well... just didn't think to mention it.  Got a few other R2 clones as well.  '65 GTO, will get the '64 Malibu...  If they choose to clone a '74 - '77 Camaro, I'm in on that as well.  A '67 - '73 Mustang coupe would be a definite purchase from me.  But I wouldn't turn down a cloned MPC '66 Monaco (wouldn't ever expect an all new kit of such esoteric subject matter).  Love to see a newly engineered '68 - '74 AMX/Javelin kit,  a stock first gen Barracuda, etc. to complete the pony car collection. 

So far I have the Revell Boss 351 and James Bond Mustangs, will get the Eleanor also.  I don't really understand all the line drawing, TBH.  I suspect most modelers buy kits for multiple reasons.  Cloned old kits for nostalgia and subject matter, new state of the art kits for subject matter and modern details and kit engineering, etc.  The bottom line is if the manufacturers are making money off it, then it's a success.  While a lot of us like to muse over subject matter that we'd like to have, the point of my previous couple of posts are that there is a lot to pick from for almost every taste, including a lot of stuff that we wouldn't have reasonably expected some 10 - 20 years ago.

I'll buy any kit, with the only requirement being that (1) I like it, and (2) it's reasonably priced.  Doesn't have to be uber detailed, but it could be.  Doesn't have to be a simple cloned kit, but it could be.

To get back on topic, as much as I'd like a mid sixties Fury, $150-ish US isn't in the cards for me now (especially as a Canuck purchaser I have exchange rate, duties, exorbitant shipping costs, etc. tacked onto it.  It's probably a $250 Cdn kit for me, which would buy 5 regularly priced kits that would make me just as happy (or 5 times happier, I suppose...).  However, they will sell all they care to make, so it too will be a success!!  Everybody's happy! 

[Ragtop Man]

The price is not out of bounds, considering the quality of the product and investment of time. I know a few of the players, and unless there is a return on the project, they are not likely to pursue. A builder '66 Fury of comparable quality and assembly readiness anywhere else is at least that much. 

Demand far exceed supply, and as long as that is the case, they will charge what the market will bear. If they didn't flippers would vacuum them up and resell at what is likely an even higher price. I've seen it first hand, and it is discouraging.

As I have opined, frequently, if you don't like it, don't buy it, but if you want it grab it now because nothing in the hobby is guaranteed. 

[mikos]

10 hours ago, Justin Porter said:

MkI Escort RS1600. Lancia Delta S4. 1886 Benz Patent Motorwagen. Citroen DS21. 1961 Pontiac Catalina. Land Rover Series III. Nissan R91CP. Brabham BT-18. Pagani Zonda C12. Tour-type asphalt modified. Dallara DW-12 Indycar. STOCK Ford Model A Phaeton. 

Just because YOU aren't getting the kits that YOU want doesn't mean other folks aren't having dreams fulfilled.

I think I have fairly popular tastes and the kits I want are what a lot of people want.  The kits you just listed are probably not on too many people’s holy grail lists except for maybe the ‘61 Catalina and stock Model A Phaeton.   I can list more of what I would like to see, but I have a feeling you are not into the classic/muscle car subjects like I am so I’ll end it at that.  
 

However, I can’t understand why anyone would say they are happy and content with the hobby  There is always better and there a lot missing gaps in popular cars that haven’t been reissued or made yet.  Yes, the resin casters and 3d printers are bringing many popular subjects we haven’t seen in a long while or have never seen to life, but at $125-$150+ a pop for no chrome and vacuum formed windows is pretty steep.  Yet, people will go on and on about how expensive a kit is for  $37.00 MSRP. 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2024 by mikos

[bobthehobbyguy]

On 8/24/2024 at 8:16 AM, Mark C. said:

While all of these discussions are great, at the end of the day we all vote with our wallets, and the folks who are actually in the business and want to stay there will know what makes money and what doesn’t.

And they are the ones risking the money.

I would love to see a full detail styrene Tucker hit and would buy 2 but realistically realistically that it would not generate enough sales.

Edited August 27, 2024 by bobthehobbyguy

[mikos]

9 hours ago, Mark C. said:

All the old kits for which the tooling was not supposed to exist any longer, or had been updated for year model changes.  For example: ‘68 Coronet, ‘71 Demon, Nova wagon, ‘68 GTO, ‘60 and ‘63 Ford pickups, etc., etc.

I am nothing but pleased to see these back on the shelves again.  Collector pricing had made them unreachable for me.  What’s not to be happy about?

I’m happy about those, but there is a lot more to do.   ‘70-‘73 Trans Am in 1/25.  ‘69-‘72 Grand Prix.   ‘71-‘73 Caprice and Impala.  ‘74-‘77 Camaro Z28.  ‘65-‘66 Impala (not Revell).  ‘70 GTO.  ‘73-‘87 square body PU with long bed and 2WD.  ‘79-‘81 Camaro Z28 (not Revell).  New tools…‘71-‘73 Riviera.  ‘71-‘73 Ford LTD cop car.  ‘77-79 T-bird.  Those are a few that I would think would be popular off the top of my head.  

[Dave Van]

On 8/25/2024 at 7:24 PM, iBorg said:

I think the concept of scanning and recreating an original kit is not the right way to do it. If you can create the files for a resin printer, I'm certain those same files could be used to create dies with the right software. That ability more than likely lowers the cost to bring a model to the marketplace.

Cloning a kit just removes some work. Work = $$$$. I lent my Monorgram Dragon Wagon to RM to clone. It took out a step for the tool maker and saved cash and made the project viable. I did the same for another unnamed stock production car with Moebius.  That project was killed mid way when Pegasus bought Moebius and I hope it can be shopped to someone.  Even partial kits are cloned. Trumpeter Nova parts made it into others kits. 

Cloning is just another option. Thx

[mikos]

13 minutes ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

And they are the ones risking the money.

I would love to see a full detail styrene Tucker hit and would buy 2 but realistically realistically that it would not generate enough sales.

Me too.  So, at least you got two people who would buy one. lol!

[Richard Bartrop]

11 minutes ago, mikos said:

Me too.  So, at least you got two people who would buy one. lol!

Makes that three.

[Tabbysdaddy]

Four.

[Bainford]

11 hours ago, mikos said:

I think I have fairly popular tastes and the kits I want are what a lot of people want. 

As long as I have been a member of model car forums, it has been a regular source of amusement just how many people genuinely believe this. And yet, if you put a dozen of them in a room and ask them to put their heads together and come up with a list of the five model car subjects most wanted by builders, they would tear each other apart trying to reach a consensus. 

[Mark C.]

12 hours ago, mikos said:

However, I can’t understand why anyone would say they are happy and content with the hobby

 

Glass half full vs half empty?

There are more selections available to builders nowadays than I can ever recall, and kit quality continues to improve.  While it’s not perfect (i.e. absolutely every kit I could ever dream of wanting is not available), what’s not to be happy about?  How many models can you build in your lifetime, especially considering that most of us are not kids anymore…

I don’t know what could be wrong with appreciating what we have and being happy about it.  Perhaps some of us prefer to be miserable?  ?

[Mark C.]

16 hours ago, Ragtop Man said:

The price is not out of bounds, considering the quality of the product and investment of time. I know a few of the players, and unless there is a return on the project, they are not likely to pursue. A builder '66 Fury of comparable quality and assembly readiness anywhere else is at least that much. 

Demand far exceed supply, and as long as that is the case, they will charge what the market will bear. If they didn't flippers would vacuum them up and resell at what is likely an even higher price. I've seen it first hand, and it is discouraging.

As I have opined, frequently, if you don't like it, don't buy it, but if you want it grab it now because nothing in the hobby is guaranteed. 

In case you are misunderstanding the point of my comments, I’m not slamming Atomic for bringing out a pricey (or reasonably priced, depending upon your POV) but high quality resin kit.  There is a place for that, and in fact I have bought worse for more money in the past.  I wish them all the success in the world, actually.

The only thing that struck me a little odd is infusing the JoHan name into it, which I presume is to indicate that their business model is to clone long gone Jo-Han kits in resin form.  I’m only speaking for myself, but my initial expectation was that they intended to produce cloned kits in plastic - so the only failure is myself misunderstanding their intentions.  I did agree with the person who suggested that if they are basically another aftermarket resin producer, then perhaps this thread belongs in the forum meant for that, as it will expose the company to more people who are looking for resin kits (plus, as a resin producer they are not an “OEM” anymore more than Modelhaus was, for example), but really it’s not an important point.  I get it that they are great guys that are known to forum members, and that some of you are actually helping them out.  Hence my good wishes for their success.

I don’t think there is any point of me discussing any further, as I don’t have anything more to add.

[Ragtop Man]

Yep, agree - shows the power of a brand name, and I suspect their business model. We will see  how far it goes, but so far, so good for them. 

We are 100% on the same page. 

[Justin Porter]

13 hours ago, mikos said:

I think I have fairly popular tastes and the kits I want are what a lot of people want.  The kits you just listed are probably not on too many people’s holy grail lists except for maybe the ‘61 Catalina and stock Model A Phaeton.   I can list more of what I would like to see, but I have a feeling you are not into the classic/muscle car subjects like I am so I’ll end it at that.  
 

However, I can’t understand why anyone would say they are happy and content with the hobby  There is always better and there a lot missing gaps in popular cars that haven’t been reissued or made yet.  Yes, the resin casters and 3d printers are bringing many popular subjects we haven’t seen in a long while or have never seen to life, but at $125-$150+ a pop for no chrome and vacuum formed windows is pretty steep.  Yet, people will go on and on about how expensive a kit is for  $37.00 MSRP. 

 

 

 

Your tastes reflect what is potentially popular in one solitary and shrinking demographic of builders. You say "not too many" in a way that positively drips of a willful lack of exposure to the hobby at large. That stinks to high heaven of the same mindset that won't buy "foreign" paint brands like Vallejo or Gunze and moans about the implosion of Testors. That looks at the teenagers and twenty year olds piling Gundam on my counter and KEEPING MY DOORS OPEN with scorn as if they're unwelcome guests in "their" corner of the world. 

Hypercar builders were ecstatic when the Zonda was released as it's one of the seminal new cars of the 00's. Off road builders were thrilled by the Land Rover because it's one of the big boxes to tick off (an early Land Cruiser still hoped for with bated breath). History buffs lost their heads when ICM made it possible to build what's popularly considered THE VERY FIRST AUTOMOBILE. Circle track fans have devoured the Salvinos/WMCC Tour Modifieds as it's the first dedicated kit for them since the Revell ASA Camaros! 

YOU are not the hobby. The hobby is breathlessly vast and filled with as many diverse and delightful people as there are stars in the sky. Take off your chromed V8 blinders for five uninterrupted seconds and you might even enjoy yourself.

[bobthehobbyguy]

I think there is a lot to be pleased with the hobby these days. There has been some great diversity in the kits being produced. The biggest Iissue is sufficient sales to make the financial aspect work.

The problem with non mainstream subjects is in most cases the volumes don't exist to justify the development costs for styrene kits. 3d printing will offer more opportunities for those subjects to be produced. As far as the 3d prints and resin kits not having plating I think it is a lack of vendors that are willing to do small volume plating. There is a need for a plating service for the hobbyist. The other option is electroplating parts which is more likely.

And I agree with others this thread belongs in the aftermarket section. At this point resins kits are what is being sold.

Edited August 27, 2024 by bobthehobbyguy

[Ron Hamilton]

On 8/22/2024 at 6:12 AM, mikos said:

I don’t know if we should use the example of original kit/promo prices for these new resin kits.  They should be at a price point under what the original kits/promos go for.  The reason those original kits/promos are expensive is because they are not being made anymore in plastic and there is a high demand for them in the hobby.  A resin kit, even though they can get pricey, is just not the same as an equivalent vintage kit made in styrene.  If they charge what the originals are going for, it’s probably better just getting the original.  Either way, you’re the spending the same amount of money for either one.  

I was hoping they could get enough capital investment to do small runs in styrene.  Of course, that would take money for tooling and distribution.  However, we have a lot of smart people on here that could do it.  What they need is someone to clone the original kits/ promos like what Round 2 is currently doing.  Make some parts a little different as to not step on the toes of avid collectors like Round 2 is doing with their cloned kits. Then, it would just require an investment in tooling to have it done in styrene plastic.

I hate to sound pessimistic, but this “made to order” Johan kits in resin on a Facebook page with no chrome and vacuumed formed glass for a hundred and a half sounds a little dubious.  

You have to be able to justify the price. I did. I buy cheap whenever I  can. The great thing about resin, hot lacquer will not affect it. Styrene on the other hand....

[bobthehobbyguy]

1 hour ago, Ron Hamilton said:

You have to be able to justify the price. I did. I buy cheap whenever I  can. The great thing about resin, hot lacquer will not affect it. Styrene on the other hand....

You have to make the decision if something  is worth the price.  However you also have to realize that the final price has to reflect the costs to produce thar product. 

[GMP440]

22 hours ago, Mark C. said:

In case you are misunderstanding the point of my comments, I’m not slamming Atomic for bringing out a pricey (or reasonably priced, depending upon your POV) but high quality resin kit.  There is a place for that, and in fact I have bought worse for more money in the past.  I wish them all the success in the world, actually.

The only thing that struck me a little odd is infusing the JoHan name into it, which I presume is to indicate that their business model is to clone long gone Jo-Han kits in resin form.  I’m only speaking for myself, but my initial expectation was that they intended to produce cloned kits in plastic - so the only failure is myself misunderstanding their intentions.  I did agree with the person who suggested that if they are basically another aftermarket resin producer, then perhaps this thread belongs in the forum meant for that, as it will expose the company to more people who are looking for resin kits (plus, as a resin producer they are not an “OEM” anymore more than Modelhaus was, for example), but really it’s not an important point.  I get it that they are great guys that are known to forum members, and that some of you are actually helping them out.  Hence my good wishes for their success.

I don’t think there is any point of me discussing any further, as I don’t have anything more to add.

  Reading through the different responses;  looks like some are wondering what Atomic's main vision is in the model car kit industry.  They own the rights to the Johan name.  Is their vision to clone past Johan kits ie, 67-69 Ambassador, 69 Roadrunner, 62 F-85, 68 Cadillac, etc ?   I don't have the answer to that.     I'm not sure either.  Has Atomic in some shape, way or form indicated they will be resurrecting some of these oldies from back in the day?  I don't know if anyone has asked Atomic if this is what they are planning.   Maybe Atomic can give us some insight to indicate that this is their intention.  

Edited August 28, 2024 by GMP440

[Zoom Zoom]

1 hour ago, GMP440 said:

  Reading through the different responses;  looks like some are wondering what Atomic's main vision is in the model car kit industry.  They own the rights to the Johan name.  Is their vision to clone past Johan kits ie, 67-69 Ambassador, 69 Roadrunner, 62 F-85, 68 Cadillac, etc ?   I don't have the answer to that.     I'm not sure either.  Has Atomic in some shape, way or form indicated they will be resurrecting some of these oldies from back in the day?  I don't know if anyone has asked Atomic if this is what they are planning.   Maybe Atomic can give us some insight to indicate that this is their intention.  

They're a small 3 man collective operation of well-known people in the hobby. Currently they are moving two doors down from their current shop to even larger digs. I'll let them speak for themselves, I know they really only communicate on their FB page, but you can always try calling them. I've been to the shop twice and have always come out happy despite the thinner wallet and have known Jack Higgins for decades and we chatted for two hours while I was visiting on Dec. 23rd last year. I've seen the resin and printed kits they're offering, quite impressive. The Fury models are especially nice, beautiful castings. It takes time to build a business and do it properly and learn along the way. I'm visiting Ohio again next month and am going to be sharing vendor space w/them at their local swap meet on Sept. 14th and after that I'll be visiting the shop in the afternoon unless I have time to drop in Friday afternoon if I get to Dayton in time. My wallet will take a hit but I'm looking forward to it ? 

Check out TimKustom's visit to Atomic City last September: