RED Turn Signals/Hazards : WHY ?!?

[1972coronet]

I'd like to read others' opinions regarding something that's bothered me for more than 30 years : 
RED turn signals / hazards. 

Why are they permitted on any 1970's-present vehicle ? 

Not only is red an improper colour for turning and / or hazard lamps, it's also obnoxious... especially when :
1.) That feature's already on its own 'circuit' 
2.) Lens originally had an amber section for this purpose, then was "reengineered" to red (see sample below of the 1998-2011 Crown Victoria tail lamp)

Flashing red means "STOP" , whereas flashing AMBER means "CAUTION". Other countries have this down, and have for decades.

Thoughts/opinions.

BTW, I'm going to convert my daily driver 2004 CVPI to the correct 1998-2001 ambers.

 

 

[Tabbysdaddy]

Amber indicates the front of the vehicle is facing you, red means the rear is facing you. From the side you can tell which way the car is facing. In low visibility situations. 

Edited August 7 by Tabbysdaddy

[peteski]

Interesting question. Someone working at NHTSA would likely have some info, or know where the documentation is which dictates the colors.

As you mentioned, many imported cars do have amber directional lenses in the taillights. But I have also seen cars such as Mercedes with all-red taillights (so they must have made those specifically for the US market).

This particularly doesn't bother me as much as all those cars with all  those aftermarket red, blue, purple, green lights (like halos around the headlights) at the front of the car.  Some of those are fairly bright. That to me is much worse than red rear directionals, and cops don't seem to care.  Back in the day, even the subtle "blue dots" in the taillights could get you stopped by cops. Not anymore.

Also very bothersome are those those new blinding LED headlights.  Sure, they illuminate the driver's road very well, but at the cost of blinding all the incoming drivers.  It is just not cool! Again it seems that the NHTSA did not consider the incoming drivers when they made those headlights legal. Yes I know all about the very sharp beam cutoff, but that doesn't seem to help in real-world application,

Edited August 9 by peteski

[rattle can man]

If those bright headlights are properly aimed, they are not a problem. It is when people change the settings, raise or lower the vehicle without correcting the aim, or repairs are not done properly that they become a problem

[peteski]

29 minutes ago, rattle can man said:

If those bright headlights are properly aimed, they are not a problem. It is when people change the settings, raise or lower the vehicle without correcting the aim, or repairs are not done properly that they become a problem

Not in my experience. Majority of those new LED headlights are blinding to me. I can't balieve that such a high percentage of new cars have misaligned headlights.  Yes, several years ago when many people were retrofitting  aftermarket LEDs for their sealed beam headlights, they were very problematic and often misaligned, but most of today's cars have factory installed LED headlights.

But we have strayed from the original subject. My fault - I just felt like ranting  a bit on a semi-related subject.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Ever since I first encountered amber signal lamps on the rear of vehicles in Europe, I've preferred them.

Vastly.    

[iamsuperdan]

I've actually converted a few of my Jeeps to the Euro-style lights over the years. Amber turns just made more sense to me. Maybe it's just what I was used to, as I worked with VW and Porsche for many years, right out of high school. And the amber turn signals were just what I was used to.

 

93 Cherokee - amber turns in the tail lights, and side markers in the front fender. 

 

 

Did my 05 TJ Sport as well, but I'll be darned if I can find any pics of it. Weird.

 

 

 

[stitchdup]

I did most of my messing about with cars during the 90s. The secret to getting all red lenses to flash orange is to use green bulbs. I believe mercedes have a slim green transparent sheet inside the indicator areas though as the bulbs are all white. But then i've had all green indicators, rear light and side markers on a car before. I've also had blue and lexus rear light lenses on various cars. These were all legal to have and use as long as they lit up in the correct colours. Once you get to around 1990 orange lenses make the car look old and all red make them look cleaner and a little more modern so i go clear side markers and black tinted front indicators, with all red rear lights. When you do it to a big bumper mk2 golf it looks ten years newer and much cleaner than the ugly orange lights that quickly discolour to brown and make cars look neglected even when everything else is clean and shiny

[1972coronet]

10 hours ago, peteski said:

I have also seen cars such as Mercedes with all-red taillights (so they must have made those specifically for the US market).

My thought exactly. I've seen BMW's with the same setup. Now, begs the question : why go through the extra trouble and expense of creating and casting an already existing lens just to put/ add in that (obnoxious) red turn signal ?

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Another point regarding the red hazards : in 97% of cases, the hazards override the other functions of the tail lamp, namely the brake lights ! Would be interested in knowing as to why that safety issue is somehow acceptable. 

[stitchdup]

The main point about all red lenses is they still flash orange. you can have any colour you want of exterior lenses as long as the lights are the correct colour when lit. and its cheaper to make the all red lenses than the mixed lenses as its just one colour molding in one part rather than 2 or 3 molds and gluing

hazzards dont over ride the other lights, orange is just a more intense colour then red so they appear brighter and you shouldn't really be using hazzards when driving anyway, they are for when you are broken down at the side of the road. if you need to use hazzards when driving you should really have the proper belisha beacon lights mounted such as trash trucks and roedworker vehicles.

[peteski]

I'm in USA and  have never heard or seen about the green inserts used to make the directional look orange/amber through the red lens.   Things I learn in the online forums.  I would think it would look more brown than orange.

Government regulations specify minimum brightness level for the vehicle lights, but any additional color filter will filter out some light, reducing the brightness. Since light bulbs have standard brightness (wattage), I'm not sure how that works as far as keeping the brightness of directional to the minimum  acceptable level.

As for John's comment, my '85 Cadillac has all-red taillight lenses and there is  no separate directional bulb. The brake and directional is on the same circuit.  I don't remember if stepping on the brake while hazards are on will stop the flashing or not. I'll have to check that next time I take that car out for a ride.

[iamsuperdan]

6 hours ago, stitchdup said:

I did most of my messing about with cars during the 90s. The secret to getting all red lenses to flash orange is to use green bulbs. I believe mercedes have a slim green transparent sheet inside the indicator areas though as the bulbs are all white. But then i've had all green indicators, rear light and side markers on a car before. I've also had blue and lexus rear light lenses on various cars. These were all legal to have and use as long as they lit up in the correct colours. Once you get to around 1990 orange lenses make the car look old and all red make them look cleaner and a little more modern so i go clear side markers and black tinted front indicators, with all red rear lights. When you do it to a big bumper mk2 golf it looks ten years newer and much cleaner than the ugly orange lights that quickly discolour to brown and make cars look neglected even when everything else is clean and shiny

Porsche did something similar on the 968. The tail lights appeared all red, but the turn signals flashed orange and the reverse lights were mostly clear. Coloured bulbs? Or German magic? Hmmm...

 

 

[Redisetta]

If we could only get people to use them, around me no one signals for a turn anymore 🤪

[Fat Brian]

Here's a video that goes into more detail about America's bad turn signals.

https://youtu.be/O1lZ9n2bxWA?si=ixQowczL00LlUzbs

[StevenGuthmiller]

In all seriousness, I've been driving for more than 45 years and I've never once cared about the color of rear turn signals.

I have 4 cars in my possession today, and I couldn't tell you what color any of them are, (except my '69 GP), without going out to the garage right now and looking.

As long as people use them, I don't care if they're red, amber, or green with purple polka dots.

 

 

 

Steve

[martinfan5]

For whatever reason when my cars model was redesigned for the next gen they went from amber to red( Japanese brand so its common they use amber) , then the mid cycle refresh they went back to amber , so I bought the refresh taillights so I could have amber to the rear,  I was just thinking about this other day, I like/prefer amber to the rear for indicators.

[iBorg]

Before I worry about this I'm going to question why all vehicles have turn signals but most people don't use them.

[Ace-Garageguy]

12 minutes ago, iBorg said:

Before I worry about this I'm going to question why all vehicles have turn signals but most people don't use them.

Same reason all people have brains but most people don't use them?

[peteski]

4 hours ago, iamsuperdan said:

Porsche did something similar on the 968. The tail lights appeared all red, but the turn signals flashed orange and the reverse lights were mostly clear. Coloured bulbs? Or German magic? Hmmm...

I've seen something similar on certain year and  model of a Mercedes.  IIRC, it was several years ago. Looking at the taillight, they looked all red. But the yet directionals showed amber and backup lights white.  If one looked closely at the lens, there are small slits in the red lens where the directional and backup reflectors are.  There is opaque (reflective) material under the red  part of those slits but clear transparent in the actual slits.   Think Venetian blinds where the blinds are the red colored plastic.  When the amber directional or clear backup bulbs are lit, all the light passes through the clear areas of the backup lens.

[Jordan White]

18 hours ago, iamsuperdan said:

I've actually converted a few of my Jeeps to the Euro-style lights over the years. Amber turns just made more sense to me. Maybe it's just what I was used to, as I worked with VW and Porsche for many years, right out of high school. And the amber turn signals were just what I was used to.

 

93 Cherokee - amber turns in the tail lights, and side markers in the front fender. 

 

 

Did my 05 TJ Sport as well, but I'll be darned if I can find any pics of it. Weird.

 

 

 

The US XJ Cherokee did have amber turn signals (other than i think a few trim levels over the years.) It makes sense though if you think the Euro tails look better or you want the rear fogs. 
 

However I am the same as you, back when I had my ‘89 YJ I also converted it to the Euro taillights so I could have amber turn signals!

Edited August 7 by Jordan White

[1972coronet]

I have seen some rather trick looking tail lamps on the new(er) Ram (Dodge, et alia) trucks : the brake light illuminates red, but when the directional signals are activated, amber illuminates from the same provision. With the advent of LED's, this should be more common ;  a no-brainer. 

12 hours ago, stitchdup said:

hazzards dont over ride the other lights, orange is just a more intense colour then red so they appear brighter and you shouldn't really be using hazzards when driving anyway, they are for when you are broken down at the side of the road. if you need to use hazzards when driving you should really have the proper belisha beacon lights mounted such as trash trucks and roedworker vehicles.

Like some of our fellow members, I am also in the U.S. (in spite of my choice to employ "alternate" spellings of words... 'cause I'm that perfect) . With the tail lamps on U.S. vehicles - pickups, medium & heavy duty trucks (lorries) , passenger vehicles, etc. - the hazards certainly do override the brake lights. Oftentimes, a vehicle travelling below the speed limit will have its "hazards" on (mostly tractor-trailers ascending or descending a steep grade) . Certain tractor-trailers have ambers, and they're on a dedicated circuit (petrol haulers particularly).
And, yes, beacons are in use on tow vehicles and highway worker - at least CalTrans , though I can't imagine that this is exclusive - trucks, light/medium/ heavy duty. 

[SSNJim]

12 hours ago, stitchdup said:

<snip) and you shouldn't really be using hazzards when driving anyway, they are for when you are broken down at the side of the road</snip>

There are several states in the US that require the use of hazards on the Interstates/freeways at speeds of less than 40 mph (45mph minimum speed) or in poor visibility conditions.

[peteski]

10 minutes ago, 1972coronet said:

I have seen some rather trick looking tail lamps on the new(er) Ram (Dodge, et alia) trucks : the brake light illuminates red, but when the directional signals are activated, amber illuminates from the same provision. With the advent of LED's, this should be more common ;  a no-brainer. 

Sure, with LED taillights this can easily e accomplished.  But in that example I suspect the taillight lens itself is clear (not red or amber).

[Tabbysdaddy]

No, the hazards do not override the brake lights. Not on my GM vehicles. When you step on the brake the lights remain illuminated and both dashboard turn signal indicators stay illuminated.

41 minutes ago, 1972coronet said:

I have seen some rather trick looking tail lamps on the new(er) Ram (Dodge, et alia) trucks : the brake light illuminates red, but when the directional signals are activated, amber illuminates from the same provision. With the advent of LED's, this should be more common ;  a no-brainer. 

Like some of our fellow members, I am also in the U.S. (in spite of my choice to employ "alternate" spellings of words... 'cause I'm that perfect) . With the tail lamps on U.S. vehicles - pickups, medium & heavy duty trucks (lorries) , passenger vehicles, etc. - the hazards certainly do override the brake lights. Oftentimes, a vehicle travelling below the speed limit will have its "hazards" on (mostly tractor-trailers ascending or descending a steep grade) . Certain tractor-trailers have ambers, and they're on a dedicated circuit (petrol haulers particularly).
And, yes, beacons are in use on tow vehicles and highway worker - at least CalTrans , though I can't imagine that this is exclusive - trucks, light/medium/ heavy duty. 

 

[Jordan White]

8 minutes ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

No, the hazards do not override the brake lights. Not on my GM vehicles. When you step on the brake the lights remain illuminated and both dashboard turn signal indicators stay illuminated.

 

How old of vehicles? I could see that if there isnt a factory third brake light.