Model T rods vertical steering columns- Why?

[Earl Marischal]

What is the point? Doesn’t it make driving more awkward?

Thanks

steve

[stitchdup]

its about space. or the lack of it in a t.

[Mike 1017]

I have had that question rattling in my head for a long time now. When I look at T-Buckets with a 426 Hemi Blown Engine. I ask myself how in the world does one control that thing. 

Mike

[Ace-Garageguy]

It's largely about space for components and linkage.

Is driving these things awkward? Yes.

Are they difficult to control? Yes.

Are there much better ways to build big-engine T-buckets? Yes.

So why do it this way? Ummmmm...Ignorance? Expediency? 'Cause that's the way other people did it?

It's been part of the "fad T" look since the git-go, and a lot of T-buckets built in that image completely neglected drivability and vehicle dynamics for style.

                               

EDIT: "Cowl steering" is one of the much better ways to do it, and found early use in dirt-track cars in the wayback where vehicle control, and the ability of the driver to maintain it effectively at speed, was a large part of the equation.

    

 

Edited August 16, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[rattle can man]

I think the biggest factor was building on a budget in your own garage with whatever you could scrounge and limited access to hi-tech information we take for granted. Then came the aftermarket and internet.

[Ace-Garageguy]

10 minutes ago, rattle can man said:

I think the biggest factor was building on a budget in your own garage with whatever you could scrounge and limited access to hi-tech information we take for granted. Then came the aftermarket and internet.

Gee. I wonder how all those guys in the '30s through the '80s managed.

Not to be snotty, but there's nothing "high-tech" about well engineered steering cobbled up from junkyard parts, which describes most all the early "cowl steering" cars.

A lot of the info was widely available in printed format way back when "magazines" were a thing, and when people could still read, follow the ideas presented, and actually make/modify stuff themselves. 

The video below shows one way it was done from the late 1940s on, using a steering box from a Ford F-series pickup (1948-1952)...practically common knowledge among rodders back then.

 

[Dave Van]

I am building a 23 T right now. Mine will NOT have a vertical steering. For comfort and drivability I am going with a C Cab. Because my prosthetic leg I need room. Those buckets with the guys folded up look horrible to drive. I am finding they are cooler looking than really fun!!!! We'll find out...

 

[stavanzer]

That Car looks great, Dave.

That chassis, favors the street rod one in the old AMT 1925 Model T, 2'n'1 Kit.

[Mark]

For a lot of guys, looks beat everything including driving comfort and practicality.  Some of those design things seem to be fads that came and went.  There was a period where some guys built them with the body raised up on the frame at the back, to make the car look as though it were bent in the middle.  Then there's the "no front brakes" thing (which was apparently legal in a lot of places; a stock T actually had only one brake, on the transmission).

As for the vertical steering column, I remember seeing one in a Rod & Custom feature car in the early Sixties.  The guy shoved a Buick engine into an early Fifties Plymouth, apparently that was his way of making it all fit.

[Ace-Garageguy]

3 minutes ago, Mark said:

For a lot of guys, looks beat everything including driving comfort and practicality...

Same mentality that turned out lots of bubble-bum-welded, extremely poorly engineered "rat rods" that actually were undrivable deathtraps in many cases. Poorly welded "suicide" front transverse spring mounts caused their share of injuries and mayhem too.

It has, however, always been possible to create "cool" vehicles that get looked at and oooed and aaahed over, reflect "the current thing", and still maintain some semblance of safe usefulness.

It's just harder.  

 

 

[Richard Bartrop]

5 hours ago, rattle can man said:

I think the biggest factor was building on a budget in your own garage with whatever you could scrounge and limited access to hi-tech information we take for granted. Then came the aftermarket and internet.

Ever check out the Hot Rod Magazine archives?  The aftermarket's been around at least as long as hot rodding.  If anything, the '60s was when you started seeing fiberglass T bodies and entire hot rod kits on the market, so it was probably a bit of the aftermarket making it easier, and a little bit fashion, courtesy of the show cars pushing the envelope.

I will admit, my inner 10 year old still thinks these things look way cool, but there's no way I'd be crazy enough to try and drive one.   Build a model, on the other hand...

[Richard Bartrop]

Grabowski's T-bucket, the one everybody wanted to copy, and there's that nearly vertical steering column, so I have no doubt that it has a lot to do with people looking at things like this in the car magazines, and thinking this is how you do it.

Edited August 18, 2024 by Richard Bartrop

[Richard Bartrop]

Something from the George Klass site.  Apparently some racers thought that kind of steering setup was the way to go too.  You can also see how cars like this might have influenced the Fad T style.

[Ulf]

20:05

Ok the steering rack is loose but it gives a pretty fair picture of what these cars are like to drive and yes, I would love to have one of my own. However this is only used for towing the race car at the drag strip.

[Bullybeef]

On 8/17/2024 at 5:19 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

Gee. I wonder how all those guys in the '30s through the '80s managed.

Not to be snotty, but there's nothing "high-tech" about well engineered steering cobbled up from junkyard parts, which describes most all the early "cowl steering" cars.

A lot of the info was widely available in printed format way back when "magazines" were a thing, and when people could still read, follow the ideas presented, and actually make/modify stuff themselves. 

The video below shows one way it was done from the late 1940s on, using a steering box from a Ford F-series pickup (1948-1952)...practically common knowledge among rodders back then.

 

Matt and Mike have done their homework!