obvious

[rattle can man]

Does anyone know if there ever was a study on why we do studies to find out the obvious? Tonight's news featured a story about a study that showed existing highway safety items (barriers, guardrails, etc.) are not effective for electric vehicles because electric vehicles weigh more. Duhhhhhh!

[peteski]

So does that imply that none of those barriers are effective for semi-trucks either?

Do passenger electric vehicles really weight more that equivalent size IC cars?  After all, they do not use heavy lead-acid batteries but lighter Lithium batteries, and they don't have the large metal engine block or transmissions of IC cars.

[Ace-Garageguy]

27 minutes ago, peteski said:

Do passenger electric vehicles really weight more that equivalent size IC cars? 

Yes.

https://www.axios.com/2023/04/28/evs-weight-safety-problems

Increased tire wear is another downside that doesn't get much media attention.

https://guidehouseinsights.com/news-and-views/ev-weight-and-torque-mean-more-tire-particulates

Edited September 19, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

41 minutes ago, rattle can man said:

Does anyone know if there ever was a study on why we do studies to find out the obvious? 

Kinda the same reason there're phone apps that remind you to hydrate, because getting thirsty is too old fashioned?  

Edited September 19, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[JollySipper]

EVs really are gonna ruin the Planet.............. All of the power stations that will need to be built, will be put up out in the mid-west USA. The same mid-west where we grow much of our food. All of those pollutants are gonna rain down with the weather....

[rattle can man]

Batteries are way heavier than a tank of fuel. Some of the Electric pickups can easily out-weight their IC engine brothers by hundreds if not thousands of pounds.  the EVs pickup shown in action at speed actually moved the concrete barriers 10 feet and spalled the concrete, sending large pieces flying. but I suppose with the batteries mounted low in the vehicle roll overs are less likely.

[peteski]

Quote

EVs really are gonna ruin the Planet.............. All of the power stations that will need to be built, will be put up out in the mid-west USA. The same mid-west where we grow much of our food. All of those pollutants are gonna rain down with the weather....

We're all doomed!   Humanity will destroy the planet, thus ourselves.  At least I will not live long enough to witness that myself.  Time to colonize other planets and spread the seeds of destruction beyond our world.

Not like we aren't ready polluting the hell out of our planet.  Millions and millions of IC cars/trucks constantly spewing pollutants into the atmosphere, the oil refineries creating more pollution, etc., etc.

Edited September 19, 2024 by peteski

[Xingu]

This will be the one and only warning for this thread. Be VERY careful with how you word your opinion/comment. All the other EV threads seem to turn political or heated very soon after they are started. Members have been given 30 day vacations over their EV comments. 

[Matt Bacon]

I would have thought the trend towards much taller and heavier SUVs instead of regular saloon and estate cars over the last 20 years has had at least the same impact as EV-ness or not. We’ve had to replace lots of Armco central barriers on motorways with taller and more elastic dividers over the last decade because SUVs roll over earlier vintage protection and end up the wrong way on the opposite carriageway instead of being contained among traffic going the same way…

best,

M.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, Matt Bacon said:

I would have thought the trend towards much taller and heavier SUVs instead of regular saloon and estate cars over the last 20 years has had at least the same impact as EV-ness or not. We’ve had to replace lots of Armco central barriers on motorways with taller and more elastic dividers over the last decade because SUVs roll over earlier vintage protection and end up the wrong way on the opposite carriageway instead of being contained among traffic going the same way…

No argument there, but EVs typically weigh in at 20%-30% more than their closest IC counterparts, though some math-challenged writers claim it's more like 10%. Numbers are hard.

But all vehicles have been getting heavier over the last few decades, which makes little sense in a world so vocally concerned with energy-use reduction, as the majority of energy consumed by any vehicle is expended in accelerating its mass. Once up to speed, it takes comparatively little energy to maintain the speed.

(EDIT: This is, of course, where EVs may have some advantage. An EV capable of "regenerative braking" can convert some of the vehicle's momentum into electricity to help recharge its batteries; conventional IC vehicles turn all of the vehicle's momentum into waste heat while braking, with no real-world-practical way to "save" the energy in normal "road" cars.)

In an environment necessitating mostly stop-and-go driving, the constantly recurring need for acceleration becomes a major factor in calculating energy consumption, and is why "city" mileage estimates are always lower than "highway".

Lower weight = less energy expended to accelerate, whether a vehicle runs on petroleum, electricity, or unicorn tears.

Edited September 19, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy
CLARITY and ACCURACY

[thatz4u]

14 hours ago, rattle can man said:

Does anyone know if there ever was a study on why we do studies to find out the obvious? Tonight's news featured a story about a study that showed existing highway safety items (barriers, guardrails, etc.) are not effective for electric vehicles because electric vehicles weigh more. Duhhhhhh!

Ask Forrest Gump...he knows

[Little Timmy]

Several years ago a  group of scientists conducted  a " study "  to see how long it takes a housewife to take an egg out of a refrigerator and place it on a counter.

After 3 months of study, they concluded that it takes 3 seconds .

The cost of the study ( paid for with a government  grant)  $385,000

That's in 1950s dollars.

I could have done it for $5 .

 

 

[Bugatti Fan]

Just about all of these so called 'studies' seem to attract over large investigative committees that are formed because there is felt to be a 'need' of opinions from so called 'experts' about what is blatantly obvious to the rest of us !

[slusher]

eHow long does it take an electric car to charge on a charging station if your going cross country?  What if your in a interstate traffic jam that last hours and your battery are low?

[Richard Bartrop]

1 minute ago, slusher said:

eHow long does it take an electric car to charge on a charging station if your going cross country?  What if your in a interstate traffic jam that last hours and your battery are low?

One of the nice things about electric motors is that you don't have to keep them running when you aren't moving like you do with an IC engine.

[Ace-Garageguy]

53 minutes ago, Richard Bartrop said:

One of the nice things about electric motors is that you don't have to keep them running when you aren't moving like you do with an IC engine.

...but if you're running your AC and lights and wipers and infotainment and charging your phone you might have a problem...and some can't be pushed off the road if the batteries are dead and they're stuck in "park" mode.

Some electric vehicles depend on a separate 12V system to disengage the "park" mode (and that 12V battery system can fail), some require a human weight in the driver's seat before they'll allow it to disengage park mode, etc.

Edited September 25, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy
CLARITY

[Richard Bartrop]

Yes, all this sucks power, but not at the rate of an idling IC engine, and you still have the option of doing the smart thing and shutting all that off when the battery is low.   In any case, you're in the same boat as an IC car stuck in traffic when it's low on gas,  only it will take longer.

[rattle can man]

I did not intend this to be a diatribe on EVs. My intent was simply a discussion of studies.  

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 minute ago, rattle can man said:

...My intent was simply a discussion of studies.  

Besides the "obvious", many studies that were done in the '50s get redone at vast expense by folks who don't bother to look at research done previously, believing that the smartphone generations are so vastly superior to their forebears, nothing in earlier scientific literature could possibly be of any value.

And then they often come up with the same results documented more than three-quarters of a century ago.

[iamsuperdan]

15 hours ago, slusher said:

eHow long does it take an electric car to charge on a charging station if your going cross country?  What if your in a interstate traffic jam that last hours and your battery are low?

Depends on the charging station. Going from 20% charge to 80% charge could be as low as 15 minutes, depending on whether the station is a Level 2 or Level 3. Also depends on your EV, as some have faster charging capabilities. Battery size plays a role in charge times too.

Also, what a lot of people forget is that yo don't have to "fill the tank" every time you charge. A lot of people think they need to stop for an hour to charge up every time. So a 500 mile trip would now have 2 or 3 hours added to it, which simply isn't the case. While on your trip, you can stop for 10 or 15 minutes, add some juice and continue on. We travel a lot to a national park near us. It's about 350km, or about a 3.5hr drive. When we did the trip in our Mach E, we added literally 20 minutes to our trip to top off on the way. Which really didn't affect us at all, because we usually stop half way to stretch our legs and give the dog a chance to stretch and pee. 

 

As for traffic jams, the same thing happens that happens with ICE cars with low fuel. You hope you can get somewhere to charge/fuel up before you run out. Just like an ICE vehicle, you get plenty of notice with low charge. Lots of time to try and deal with it.

 

[Xingu]

16 hours ago, rattle can man said:

I did not intend this to be a diatribe on EVs. My intent was simply a discussion of studies.  

Unfortunately, if you mention EV this is what we always get here. EV will be semi-normal in about a decade, just when the hydrogen fuel cell cars start to really hit the market. I guess then we will complain about the roads always being damp.

[RW033]

The automotive industry has almost always gone through the same cycles rotating from ICE to EV to hybrid, to some sort of alternative fuel, and probably always will. A lot of people don’t realize electric cars were around back in the 1800s

[peteski]

Yup, like this 1909 Baker Electric.

[slusher]

13 hours ago, iamsuperdan said:

Depends on the charging station. Going from 20% charge to 80% charge could be as low as 15 minutes, depending on whether the station is a Level 2 or Level 3. Also depends on your EV, as some have faster charging capabilities. Battery size plays a role in charge times too.

Also, what a lot of people forget is that yo don't have to "fill the tank" every time you charge. A lot of people think they need to stop for an hour to charge up every time. So a 500 mile trip would now have 2 or 3 hours added to it, which simply isn't the case. While on your trip, you can stop for 10 or 15 minutes, add some juice and continue on. We travel a lot to a national park near us. It's about 350km, or about a 3.5hr drive. When we did the trip in our Mach E, we added literally 20 minutes to our trip to top off on the way. Which really didn't affect us at all, because we usually stop half way to stretch our legs and give the dog a chance to stretch and pee. 

 

As for traffic jams, the same thing happens that happens with ICE cars with low fuel. You hope you can get somewhere to charge/fuel up before you run out. Just like an ICE vehicle, you get plenty of notice with low charge. Lots of time to try and deal with it.

 

Thanks Dan!