Paint disaster. What went wrong?

[55fireflite]

I have a Tamiya Jaguar MK2 sedan kit I wanted to paint in a dark red, and decided to give Splash Paints a try. I ordered some Ford maroon and bottle of primer. I sprayed the Splash primer, let it sit for a few days, and then sprayed the on the red. I used it straight out of the bottle as recommended, 20psi with medium needle in one of my Badger airbrushes. Everything looked great, so I set it aside, cleaned the airbrush and painted something else with Tamiya or MCW paint. When that was done, I set it aside, checked on the Jaguar and WHAT THE.......? Complete disaster. The paint shrank back from all the body seams.

I painted for years with Tamiya, MCW, Badger Accuflex and Duplicolor and have never had anything like this happen. I know lots of people are using Splash paint with success, so what could have gone wrong?

[64SS350]

In my experience, the areas that separated are places where things can "pool". Whether it be kit oils or soap from cleaning. Also the primer and paint, from pooling and reactivation, or lack of mixing, and.... sometimes just a bad bottle or can of paint.

My two cents....

[Ace-Garageguy]

Another sad example of why we always harp on testing materials or combinations you're not intimately familiar with BEFORE committing to painting a model.

I know absolutely nothing about Splash paints, but you can be sure if I ever try them, I'll thoroughly test them prior to actual use.

Edited September 22, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[gman]

What process did you use when laying the colour coat on? Heavier coats with fast coverage? Slowly building up mist coats over several passes around the body?

[StevenGuthmiller]

So, I guess my question would be, if you've had good luck with so many other alternatives, why switch now?

My guess would be that MCW has the exact same color in their line.

If you're familiar with their product, why mess with a good thing?

 

I guess the way that I see it is that it took me decades to find a reliable painting process that can net good results for me every time, virtually eliminating the "fun" of having to strip and repaint bodies.

If I can find the color that I desire through one of the providers that I have experience with, I can't think of a good reason to deviate away from that.

No offense to you personally Tom, but sometimes it appears that people are just looking for trouble.

 

By the way, just looking at the photos, my guess is that the areas where the paint stayed wet for a longer time, somehow and for some unknown reason to me, the pigment drew away from the wet reducer before it could gas out properly and set.

No science to back that up, but it certainly appears to have only happened where the paint would have a tendency to "pool".

 

 

 

Steve

Edited September 22, 2024 by StevenGuthmiller

[Dave G.]

I'm curious if that is primer showing where the maroon pulled back or plastic ? Hard to tell on screen.

[55fireflite]

6 hours ago, Dave G. said:

I'm curious if that is primer showing where the maroon pulled back or plastic ? Hard to tell on screen.

That's the primer showing.

 

8 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Another sad example of why we always harp on testing materials or combinations you're not intimately familiar with BEFORE committing to painting a model..

Point taken. Especially since I always have a spare body sitting by the paint booth so I can test out the airbrush. All I had to do was grab a fresh one and give the whole thing a full paint job and check the results. Probably me showing my cheapskate side (comes from my Dad).

My local hobby shop recently got in a new paint line call Cobra Motor Paints by Ammo, which includes some factory stock and racing colors. I picked up a jar of 60s Ferrari Rosso Corso and light brown leather. I already have a spare body ready for a full test before it goes on project car. 

7 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

So, I guess my question would be, if you've had good luck with so many other alternatives, why switch now?

My guess would be that MCW has the exact same color in their line.

If you're familiar with their product, why mess with a good thing?

 

I guess the way that I see it is that it took me decades to find a reliable painting process that can net good results for me every time, virtually eliminating the "fun" of having to strip and repaint bodies.

If I can find the color that I desire through one of the providers that I have experience with, I can't think of a good reason to deviate away from that.

No offense to you personally Tom, but sometimes it appears that people are just looking for trouble.

I didn't mention it in my initial post, but while I have been using MCW paints for a long time, I've been way less than satisfied with the results. Specifically it's the level of gloss. I got back into modeling during COVID after maybe eight years. One of the first kits I painted was the 58 Imperial that's out now. I used MCW 58 Imperial Dark Turquoise with a stainless roof panel, and it looks fantastic, nice and glossy. Other bodies have been less so. I can get it to lay out perfectly smooth, but often it looks more like semi-gloss. The 55 Chrysler 300 came out that way, smooth but not very glossy.

I had the same problem 15 years ago. The gloss level seems to depend on the day of the week, the phase of the moon, and what I had for breakfast. Weather doesn't seem to make a difference. I just re-sprayed a chassis component for long-term NASCAR Daytona project out of the same jar I used earlier, and it came out a little shinier. I've gotten so frustrated with it I wanted to try something else.

I get very consistent and very glossy results with Tamiya. I just airbrushed a Tamiya Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GTA body and chassis in Italian Red and it came out PERFECT. But Tamiya only has so many colors to pick from. 

One thing worth noting. I used to have an HO model railroad, and I hope to have one again someday. About a year ago I decided to paint/repaint some locomotives to display on my bookshelf. MCW has a line of railroad colors now, and I ordered some CSX yellow, since I couldn't track down any from Badger Accuflex. HOLY COW, that's the glossiest result I've ever gotten from MCW, and it flowed out beautifully. The water-based blue and grey fr om Badger went over it with no trouble. I see on their website they are offering a lot of their car colors in the new enamel formula. I'm thinking next I'm looking for paint, I'll give MCW's enamel a try. And yes, I'll do a full spray-out on a test body first. 

[55fireflite]

Oh, and the irony with the locomotive paint coming out so glossy, is model trains look toy-like if they're shiny, so once the decaling is done, the whole thing gets spayed with clear flat. 

[slusher]

When testing paint it’s best to use scrap model parts…

[Rick L]

This paint inhibition appears to be a lack of cleaning the inside corners of mold release used by the manufacturer. 

[peteski]

4 hours ago, Rick L said:

This paint inhibition appears to be a lack of cleaning the inside corners of mold release used by the manufacturer. 

AFAIK, mold release is not used in injection molding polystyrene. It is a myth.

Even if it was true, why would the primer not be affected by it, only the color coat over dried primer?

[Dave G.]

Something took place between the primer and color coat. That's unfortunate since if I recall, they are the same brand. This isn't speaking very well of Splash formulation. It's hard to believe within their own system, things would get that screwed up.

Somehow this looks familiar to me, but I don't recall where from ( I shot 1/1 for 35 years, various paints and also 60 years models. So lots of paint real-estate in that time). But I'm thinking it was thinner related in some way. Or maybe surface moisture content. Did you wet sand the primer ?

[Rick L]

Holy cr-p!

Please excuse my senior moment on that misinformation. Not sure what I thinking at the time. Surface moisture does make sense as David claims.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, peteski said:

AFAIK, mold release is not used in injection molding polystyrene. It is a myth.

Actually, no.

Just FYI, mold release agents are quite common, as are lubricants for sliding mold cavity elements, ejector pins, etc.

And it it possible for any lubricant to migrate to places you don't want it.

Today however, the majority of release agents and lubricants are the "dry film" type, and are specifically formulated to be "paintable" (though thorough cleaning is still recommended).

https://www.plastixs.com/products/slide-products/injection-mold-release/specialty-mold-releases/dfl-dry-film-lube-flurocarbon-no-41112n/

https://stonermolding.com/store/product-detail/e436_mold_release_ejector_pin_lube/e436csston02

https://interflon.com/us/industries/injection-moulding-2

https://pmiheat.com/product/dfl-dry-film-lube-mold-release-aerosol/

 

Edited September 23, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

[Matt Bacon]

The only time I’ve ever seen anything like this was a result of not letting the model fully dry after washing off sanding residue. The paint (in my case Tamiya primer) will “skin” over water droplets as you spray it, and then pull back as it cures and shrinks properly. Fortunately I only got caught out in the headlight details and rear light buckets on a Lambo, so It was contained and easily remedied.

Also, if I read their web site right, Splash paints are like Zero, and the colour coats are meant to dry matt, with the shine coming from the gloss coat. If you’re spraying them heavily enough to get a satin or gloss look, that’s too much, and I’d hate to think what the solvent might do. In the past, when I’ve had issues with Tamiya spray paint coats “pulling back” from panel lines etc, it’s because the paint is too wet and has time to move. That’s why I adopted the “splatter coats” method for TS sprays instead.

best,

M.

Edited September 23, 2024 by Matt Bacon

[jaymcminn]

I know that Splash paints are fairly hot and will craze and lift prior coats if sprayed "wet". They also like a little more time between coats than some lacquers. I bet it was applied too heavy and too soon on the final coats and the whole mess pulled away from anything that wasn't a flat surface. The first time I used Splash there was a bit of a learning curve, but they're excellent paints once you get them mastered. They absolutely require a clear coat... I use Tamiya LP clear thinned with Mr. Leveling Thinner. Below is a Tamiya Caterham Super 7 done in their Bentley Racing Green...

Edited September 23, 2024 by jaymcminn

[CabDriver]

4 hours ago, jaymcminn said:

I know that Splash paints are fairly hot and will craze and lift prior coats if sprayed "wet". They also like a little more time between coats than some lacquers. I bet it was applied too heavy and too soon on the final coats and the whole mess pulled away from anything that wasn't a flat surface. The first time I used Splash there was a bit of a learning curve, but they're excellent paints once you get them mastered. They absolutely require a clear coat... I use Tamiya LP clear thinned with Mr. Leveling Thinner. Below is a Tamiya Caterham Super 7 done in their Bentley Racing Green...

Stunning work!

[Dave G.]

11 hours ago, jaymcminn said:

I know that Splash paints are fairly hot and will craze and lift prior coats if sprayed "wet". They also like a little more time between coats than some lacquers. I bet it was applied too heavy and too soon on the final coats and the whole mess pulled away from anything that wasn't a flat surface. The first time I used Splash there was a bit of a learning curve, but they're excellent paints once you get them mastered. They absolutely require a clear coat... I use Tamiya LP clear thinned with Mr. Leveling Thinner. Below is a Tamiya Caterham Super 7 done in their Bentley Racing Green...

That is beautiful ! And with the quintessential looking lacquer finish.