Tamiya shine issues

[gtx6970]

Waht the hell am I doing wrong.

 

Ive painted a half dozen cars using Tamiya paints in the padt 2 weeks...and with exception to one...all have shine issues.

 

ALL seem to dry out with virtually no shine what so ever. It's like the plastic or primer absorb the paint.

 

Ive painted over Duplicolor grey primer,

Tamiya white primer/surfacer 

And today over bare white plastic 

And all same exact result

Ive cleaned some , Ive not cleaned some and same result.

 

Im in southern Az and humidity is in the 5% range the past week or so 

Painted 3 different bodies today and same exact problem on all 3...an  AMT 1971 Duster over duplicolor grey primer basecoat. 1  Mobieus 65 AFX body with tamiya white primer base and gloss white topcoat. .3rd was tamiya gloss white over bare white plastic .And it dried like it was flat white paint.

 

Cleared one of them ( 2 coats clear ) and it barely made a difference 

 

I painted a MPC 71 Demon 6 months ago and took almost a full can of Tamiya clear . And even then I had to polish the heck out of it to get any kind of shine 

 

The only constant here is Paint brand 

 

I'll pick up some testors clear this weekend.

Hope that helps...

If not 

 

I think Im going back to Duplicolor spray cans full time

Edited November 15 by gtx6970

[Rodent]

I can't answer your question, but I have had the same issue with Tamiya rattle cans for over a year now. It makes me sad because they used to be a no-brain way to an excellent paint job.

[rattle can man]

I haven't really had any issues with the three cans I've used this year. I'm not a chemist and just making guesses: What does the painted surface feel like? Smooth or rough? If it is rough it might be partially drying before it hits the surface and thus won't level out to give you a shine. Perhaps heat or low humidity are partially drying the paint.

[peteski]

Bill, is this the first time you have tried Tamiya paints?  Spray cans, or decanted shot through an airbrush?  Or are they the acrylic paints in the glass bottles?  Which specific paints are you using?   What is your painting technique?

I recommend experimenting (test-painting) plastic spoons.  That way you won't have to strip paint from your models.

[slusher]

8 hours ago, rattle can man said:

I haven't really had any issues with the three cans I've used this year. I'm not a chemist and just making guesses: What does the painted surface feel like? Smooth or rough? If it is rough it might be partially drying before it hits the surface and thus won't level out to give you a shine. Perhaps heat or low humidity are partially drying the paint.

Real good possibility.  

[gtx6970]

TS series straight from the rattle cans. No airbrush 

 

Same method I've used for years 

About 10-12 inches away.

 

Paint lays down nice and has a killer shine....until it dries.

It's almost like it's crazing appearance to it.

One I painted yesterday with gloss white dried to a flat white primer look to it in minutes.

I've painted primered bodies sanded with 600-800 grit.

To untouched bodies right out of the box. No sanding. No cleaning....pulled it out of the box and painted it

Same result

 

The only one I've had with no issues was Tamiya gloss black. It went on real nice.  Only reason I had to clear it was to seal over decals

That was on a lindberg / AMT 1964 Plymouth Kit

 

I've never had these issues with Testors paints. Including a couple painted in past few weeks.

 

Issue for me is Testors is not readily / easily avail.

Hobby Lobby has it....but it's across town.

But i will be near there this weekend so plan is pick up some paint and try again.

Especially wet look clear. Ive used in the past with excellant results.

And I can get Tamiya at my local Ace hardwares hobby section 10 minutes away.

 

I've also used Upohl urethane spray can clears as well. With excellent results over both testors and duplicolors paints.  But that stuff ain't cheap. And is online orders only

 

Edited November 15 by gtx6970

[R. Thorne]

Wow, I’m stumped.  I love Tamiya TS spray cans and have painted 5 or six cars in the past year with stellar results.  Orange, maroon, black (my favorite) and the last one ts42 gunmetal gray.  I put gloss ts13 on the last one, but rarely do.  Temperatures range from 71-74 degrees and humidity around 50 %.  Is that extremely low 5% normal for you?  I sincerely hope you find a solution.  Also, I sometimes use a primer base, but, mostly straight to the plastic.  Normally I use 2 medium coats perhaps held a little closer than you.

[DJMar]

12 hours ago, gtx6970 said:

TS series straight from the rattle cans.

Just curious. Same can or few cans? Above you said you painted two out of the three models white, so I'm assuming that white was from the same batch. Could it be a bad batch of paint?

Re: temp & humidity. Below is a AMT Dodge Challenger that I sprayed with TS-24 Purple on a very hot day in August. It dried very quickly, as those paints do, but the high temps didn't help and I probably didn't lay down enough paint for the conditions.

 

Edited November 16 by DJMar

[rattle can man]

I think it looks like it is going on a bit on the dry side and does not level out like it should. When the paint hits the surface, some of the solvent that would normally allow it to "flow" anf level out has already evaporated and there is not enough of it to allow it to level out and give you a smooth, glossy finish Perhaps experiment with a shorter distance between can and subject. Or wait for a day with higher humidity. Alternatively, you could try the good old standard sand and polish to get the shine back. I would advise experimenting on spoons before mixing brands of paints.

to under stand what I am suggesting, find something you sprayed with flat paint and a successful attempt at gloss paint. run your finger or fingernail over the surface and you will feel the difference in texture. That texture on the flat paint is why decals "silver". I bet if you tried to decal over that finish, the decal would silver.

[espo]

Could the low humidity level be a cause of your paint issues? 5% humidity is lower than I can even imagine dealing with. Most builders are trying to limit their painting to under 50% humidity. Maybe at the 5% humidity level the paint is drying before it reaches the model. 

[gtx6970]

25 minutes ago, espo said:

Could the low humidity level be a cause of your paint issues? 5% humidity is lower than I can even imagine dealing with. Most builders are trying to limit their painting to under 50% humidity. Maybe at the 5% humidity level the paint is drying before it reaches the model. 

That's the weird part.

 

I painted 3 others in past couple months.

2 were duplicolor rattle can touchup paint for base and tamiya clear topcoat ( black chrysler 300 and red challenger )

2nd was Testors extreme lacquer color base with tamiya clear( green vega)

 

All three  of them turned out fine

 

While I'm out today.

I'll pick up some testors extreme and try again . As I have 2 more bodies I want to paint.

[gtx6970]

My 64 plymouth is all tamiya base and clear.

It looks killer ( imo ) 

[espo]

Is there anything in your paint preparation that you may have done differently before spraying? I'm thinking maybe the warming of the spray can, if you're not using an air brush. Was the paint agitated well before using? Just troughing out a few maybes. 

[gtx6970]

I'll shake any rattle can pretty good.

 

To be honest I think 2 of the 3 were with warmed paint

3rd was not.

All 3 same result. 

 

I got one of the afx cars ( strickler 65 Dodge ) shined decent..but it took almost a full can of clear 

2nd one is sox martin afx hardtop.

The white came out dead flat. 

The blue roof is so so . Slightly above pure flat...more a semi gloss at best

I'll paint the red on it and see how it looks.

But picked up some testors wet look clear today 

I've always had good luck with it.

 

Worst case they all go in the strip tank and I'll start over with all Duplicolor 

 

[gtx6970]

Ps.

 

I'm starting to wonder if the can of gloss white is mislabeled and anything I put on top of it goes flat as well

[peteski]

5 hours ago, espo said:

Could the low humidity level be a cause of your paint issues? 5% humidity is lower than I can even imagine dealing with. Most builders are trying to limit their painting to under 50% humidity. Maybe at the 5% humidity level the paint is drying before it reaches the model. 

High humidity means high dew point where water from the ambient air starts condensing. Spraying paint (and the propellant) cools down the paint.  The cool paint causes the water droplets (dew) to occur either in the paint stream, or on the cool paint which settled on the model surface.  That water affects the paint's finish (like blushing).

Very low humidity (especially if the air ambient air is warm) will accelerate the solvent evaporation from the liquid paint, That could cause the paint to dry too quickly resulting in orange peel or similarly non-glossy surface.

But if the paint is applied to the model in heavy enough coat to look wet, so it looks glossy when wet, but dries to flat finish, that doesn't add up.  If the solvent was evaporating too quickly, the wet paint would not look glossy at any time during the painting process.

Edited November 16 by peteski

[gtx6970]

14 minutes ago, peteski said:

High humidity means high dew point where water from the ambient air starts condensing. Spraying paint (and the propellant) cools down the paint.  The cool paint causes the water droplets (dew) to occur either in the paint stream, or on the cool paint which settled on the model surface.  That water affects the paint's finish (like blushing).

Very low humidity (especially if the air ambient air is warm) will accelerate the solvent evaporation from the liquid paint, That could cause the paint to dry too quickly resulting in orange peel or similarly non-glossy surface.

But if the paint is applied to the model in heavy enough coat to look wet, so it looks glossy when wet, but dries to flat finish, that doesn't add up.  If the solvent was evaporating too quickly, the wet paint would not look glossy at any time during the painting process.

Yet.

Mine is quite glossy when first sprayed

 

It's 15 . 30.minutes  Or maybe an hour later it's anything from blushed to downright flat 

[gman]

Do you knock down the texture in your primer before spraying the colour coats, or cover the primer as-shot? Some automotive primers exhibit texture that will take a lot of colour coats to smooth it out. Tamiya and Mr. Hobby fine surface primers lay down with a very smooth eggshell texture and work well under Tamiya lacquers. Stynylrez primer does the same, but requires airbrushing.

[gtx6970]

2 hours ago, gman said:

Do you knock down the texture in your primer before spraying the colour coats, or cover the primer as-shot? Some automotive primers exhibit texture that will take a lot of colour coats to smooth it out. Tamiya and Mr. Hobby fine surface primers lay down with a very smooth eggshell texture and work well under Tamiya lacquers. Stynylrez primer does the same, but requires airbrushing.

All primer coats were wet sanded with either 600 or 800 grit 

Exact same process I used on other bodies 

 

Like mentioned Im beginning to wonder if I have a mis labeled can of glossy white / flat white 

[RickRollerLT1]

 

On 11/15/2024 at 5:35 PM, DJMar said:

Just curious. Same can or few cans? Above you said you painted two out of the three models white, so I'm assuming that white was from the same batch. Could it be a bad batch of paint?

Re: temp & humidity. Below is a AMT Dodge Challenger that I sprayed with TS-24 Purple on a very hot day in August. It dried very quickly, as those paints do, but the high temps didn't help and I probably didn't lay down enough paint for the conditions.

 

I've had the same issue as the Purple Challenger. Was the TS applied on bare plastic or with Duplicolor primer base? A major thing to consider is with many of todays kits using cheap "thin" plastic, that many "hotter" paints like lacquers and acrylics, and yes even Tamiya, will attack the styrene and cause what is called "crazing" or "etching". Fogging or "blushing" is caused by extremely high humidity over 70% and is evident by brighter "flat" spots in parts of the paint, which is not what I'm seeing here.

 

Its possible the Duplicolor primer (if indeed used here and is very hot on modern styrene) was applied too thick, which caused the crazing to travel to the Tamiya layer. I even had this happen with Tamiya TS Grey and White Primer on Revell and AMT bodies with weak cheap styrene batches. Best case scenerio for cheap styrene is to do a very light primer coat so it "bites", then after 5-10 mins hit it up with a heaver coat to seal it up. It should be relatively smooth enough to sand down for another coat or apply the base color coats.

Edited November 17 by RickRollerLT1

[ZTony8]

I have not had good luck putting Tamiya color over Duplicolor primer.There may be a basic chemical incompatibility between those items that kills gloss.When I spray Tamiya color I apply two light (mist) coats 10 to 12 inches away about 15 minutes apart then move in to about 8 to 10 inches away and move across the body a bit slower.This helps the gloss. At first it might look like the heavier coats will run by doing this but with practice you'll get a sense of how close and / or slowly you can apply the last coats.