What plate metal to use for hammering brass or copper sheet on (Like Gerald Wingrove, pandelbeating in miniature)

[LDO]

I just looked up what he used. It was a chunk of cast iron from a scrap yard. I think that would be hard to find, at least around here. Years ago I bought a piece of what I remembered as cold rolled steel. It was about 3/4” thick, but apparently CRS is not available that thick. So what would be good to use for hammering brass and copper? 
 

Thanks, Lee

[Ace-Garageguy]

A piece of old railroad track is good for making a small anvil, or look for a cheap cast iron vise in a pawn shop.

I've made several "slappers" for doing real car sheetmetal work from sections of old leaf springs, and secured in a bench vise they'd work fine for hammering model car body panels on too.

Old scrap leaf springs are usually available cheap or free at 4WD shops, or bodyshops.

Other possible tools would be body-work dollies. Lower quality cast-iron ones are available inexpensively from "offshore" outlets like Harbor Freight, and they're plenty strong for hammering copper and brass stock on. You can find body-working tools in pawnshops too.

Honestly, it doesn't take anything special to make anvils for doing what you want to do.

Steel bar or sheet stock from 1/4" upwards will be PLENTY strong for hammer-shaping annealed brass or copper sheet. You'll be gently tapping very soft, thin metal, not vigorously hammering resilient steel.

EDIT: Real-car hammers and dollies for sheetmetal come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes, from which any imaginable model-making tools can be fashioned.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[Old Buckaroo]

Bill has some excellent info above

I have a small anvil and hammer set I use for repairing stainless body and window trim. The anvil is small enough to have on a hobby bench and the hammers are "jewlers hammers". Many restoration places carry them like Eastwood and even Amazon if you shop there.

 

 

[LDO]

I’m just looking for a sheet or plate for now. I had one that was roughly 3/4”x 7” x 12”. It was a cutoff from something a metal shop had in stock. I just want to tinker at first. I’m waiting to hear back from an eBay seller on combining shipping for two jeweler’s repousse hammers

[ColonelKrypton]

24 minutes ago, LDO said:

I’m just looking for a sheet or plate for now. I had one that was roughly 3/4”x 7” x 12”. It was a cutoff from something a metal shop had in stock. I just want to tinker at first. I’m waiting to hear back from an eBay seller on combining shipping for two jeweler’s repousse hammers

Jewellers bench block sounds like what you are looking for.  You will find a handful of choices on Amazon.  Michaels,  other craft stores eBay, etc ...

 

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Other possible tools would be body-work dollies.

A very good suggestion for other shapes.

Jewellers tools, ( Amazon is handy but there are many good jeweller suppliers that a search will find ) - search for jewellers anvils and you will many sizes and shapes. Also dapping blocks which you might find interesting and useful.

cheers, Graham

[Ace-Garageguy]

47 minutes ago, LDO said:

I’m just looking for a sheet or plate for now. I had one that was roughly 3/4”x 7” x 12”. It was a cutoff from something a metal shop had in stock. I just want to tinker at first. I’m waiting to hear back from an eBay seller on combining shipping for two jeweler’s repousse hammers

Any fabrication shop or welding shop or machine shop will have all manner of scrap, cutoffs, etc., for little money or nothing too.

OR...if there's a Metal Supermarkets store in your area, you can get anything you could possibly need for what you want to do. Small quantities are their speciality.

https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/

Edited December 30, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[johnyrotten]

Depending on your needs, even something such as an old tow ball could work, or like suggested a chunk of railroad track or beam. The plate he was using may have been ""pickled and oiled". Basically no mill scale , similar to cold rolled steel. The body hammer kits shown above are a good start for metal forming,  I've made "anvils" out of cheap, beat ones for projects in the past. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

Don't overlook home improvement stores like Lowes and Home Depot, or well stocked hardware stores.

Many of them stock mild steel rod and shapes and plate for making all kinds of stuff.

I've bought 1/4" plate frome HD, and it's more than adequate for hammering copper and brass model body parts on.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

Another point: "cold rolled" is nice, but unnecessary.

The process does toughen the surface somewhat, and improves the surface finish, but when you consider how soft annealed copper and brass are, plain old hot-rolled steel is fine.

Any "mill scale" can be easily removed.

AND: you WILL want to anneal your copper or brass prior to trying to work it. Annealing softens the metal so it shapes and stretches more easily, without cracking.

It's also necessary to periodically re-anneal it, as hammering on it causes "work hardening", which has to be relieved.

 

[johnyrotten]

20 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Another point: "cold rolled" is nice, but unnecessary.

The process does toughen the surface somewhat, and improves the surface finish, but when you consider how soft annealed copper and brass are, plain old hot-rolled steel is fine.

Any "mill scale" can be easily removed.

AND: you WILL want to anneal your copper or brass prior to trying to work it. Annealing softens the metal so it shapes and stretches more easily, without cracking.

It's also necessary to periodically re-anneal it, as hammering on it causes "work hardening", which has to be relieved.

 

You beat me to the punch.

Edited December 30, 2024 by johnyrotten
Missing word

[Bugatti Fan]

Gerald Wingrove used to make hardwood bucks in the shapes he wanted to form metal over. Usually thin copper or brass sheet and annealing during the tin bashing process to counteract the work hardening that took place.

I would suggest looking out Gerald Wingrove's Complete Car Modeller Books 1 and 2. 

Out of print now so EBay will probably be the best source, although Amazon just might be worth a look.

 

[Muncie]

Just another thought,  Your hammer and dolly surfaces need to be smooth, smoother the better.  An as cast surface is too rough. Any marks, cuts or divots will transfer to the part that you are working on.  The marks aren't so easy to work out of the part once they are there.  The Wingrove books are worth the money - not just for learning the tools but the how-to information on shaping metal is a real head start on learning how-to.

[johnyrotten]

Ron Covell (spelling) has a youtube channel, he's another valuable source for tips and information on metalworking.

[Straightliner59]

I've gathered all kinds of stuff to form sheet. There are different shaped horns for jewelry-making that fit into square holes in anvils for making different radii bends in sheet. I have three different anvils. I filed the tang on the smallest one to shape an aluminum scoop for one of my projects. When I did the tail and nose sections of my Nostalgia Top Fuel car, I carved wood bucks, and shaped tin, over them. Randy Ditton has a Birdcage Maserati that is unbelievable, so, if he sees this, he might have some good insight, as well. I told him that my dragster body is a downspout, compared to that!

Like Bill mentioned, I have a couple of cheap body dollies from Harbor Freight that work well for shaping sheet. I bought a chasing hammer, too. I made a "hammer" for shaping dragster cowls, that's nothing more than a piece of steel rod that's about 10" long. One thing I've learned is that the metal will kind of "talk" to you, as you gain experience. That, I can't really explain, other than, at some point, you start to get a feel for it. I've had a lot of fun with it, over the years! 

[Straightliner59]

20 minutes ago, Muncie said:

Your hammer and dolly surfaces need to be smooth, smoother the better.

That'll definitely save you work, later!

[Straightliner59]

One of these days, I'm going to build myself an English wheel.