lordairgtar Posted March 22 Posted March 22 https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/ferrari-agree-to-supply-general-motors-f1-project-with-power-units-and.5iJ8zSH3IEfakRY5XXt8GM Article about Cadillac coming to F1 in 2026. They will use a Ferrari engine. Doesn't GM possess the engineering know-how to create their own engine?
Dave Van Posted March 22 Posted March 22 I am bias toward Caddy......but I wish they'd have picked NASCAR as rumored........ Why I am bias..... 3
oldcarfan Posted March 22 Posted March 22 If NASCAR returned to stock bodied cars, that Caddie would look sweet! 1
RW033 Posted March 23 Posted March 23 On 3/22/2025 at 9:50 PM, lordairgtar said: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/ferrari-agree-to-supply-general-motors-f1-project-with-power-units-and.5iJ8zSH3IEfakRY5XXt8GM Article about Cadillac coming to F1 in 2026. They will use a Ferrari engine. Doesn't GM possess the engineering know-how to create their own engine? Expand I’m not an F1 fan but am a GM fan, I thought GM was doing their own engine, correct me if I’m wrong, but does “power unit” maybe refer to the hybrid part of the drivetrain?
Dave Van Posted March 23 Posted March 23 Kinda sounds like Caddy is just re-badging the engine. I'd be more impressed if they built their own engine.
Force Posted March 23 Posted March 23 (edited) The whole package with the 1.6 litre turbo charged V6 combustion engine and hybrid system with MGU-H and MGU-K and battery pack together is called power unit and this started 2014. Cadillac...or should I say GM...will most likely do their own engine eventually, but develop a F1 engine and hybrid system wich are currently used is definately not cheap and takes time, Honda wich is the last to enter in todays F1 hybrid era in 2015 took several years until they had a reliable competitive power unit. Several teams of the 10 currently in F1 buys/leases their engines from others as there are only 4 engine/power unit manufacturers, Mercedes, Ferrari, Honda and Renault...and Renault is not going to continue after this year as it seems, when Cadillac enters it will be 11 teams and 22 cars as every team has 2 cars. So today the 10 teams gets their power units from these 4, Mercedes, McLaren, Williams, Aston Martin has Mercedes power units, Ferrari, Haas, and Sauber has Ferrari power units and Haas buys everything they can and are allowed to from Ferrari, Red Bull and Racing Bulls has RBPT Honda power units and Renault power unit only in Alpine. Red Bull and Racing Bulls will use RBPT Ford next year as Honda will go to Aston Martin and Renault will be gone so Alpine will be a customer team from next year with wich engine I don't know yet, Audi wich takes over Sauber completely for next year will most likely do their own power unit for the upcoming engine regulation where the MGU-H is dropped but are a customer team until then...and it's been talk lately about going back to naturally aspirated V10's on sustainable fuels and skip the V6 turbo and hybrid system maybe for 2028, it's cheaper to do a V10 without the hybrid system and maybe will get more engine manufacturers to enter F1...so who knows what's going to happen in the future and maybe Cadillac will wait until then instead of putting in huge ammounts of money in something that's going to disappear soon. Edited March 23 by Force 1
DanL Posted March 23 Posted March 23 The low estimate for an F1 power unit is 10 million up to 18 million dollars each and GM is hoping to develop there own by 2030... this ain't NASCAR
Mattilacken Posted March 23 Posted March 23 GM have not bought Haas, they start a new team, the 11th at the grid. powerunit is as explained above the combination of electric and combustion engine and al regen equipment and such. engines will be Ferraris until they can make their own. They need to engineer a new engine and probably make a new factory. Ford and Audi is making a new engine for 2026 but started couple years ago.
Force Posted March 23 Posted March 23 On 3/23/2025 at 9:32 AM, Mattilacken said: GM have not bought Haas, they start a new team, the 11th at the grid. powerunit is as explained above the combination of electric and combustion engine and al regen equipment and such. engines will be Ferraris until they can make their own. They need to engineer a new engine and probably make a new factory. Ford and Audi is making a new engine for 2026 but started couple years ago. Expand Ford is doing their engine in conjunction with Red Bull Power Train who today does the Honda engines Red Bull and Racing Bulls use, so Ford doesn't start with a blank sheet of paper as RBPT is building engines allready. And yes, Cadillac will be the 11th team, so they did not buy their way in like Audi did, but Audi will do their own power unit, they have been at it wor some time now...but the engine regulations have to be quite firm for some time before it's viable to put in the money. If the go away from the hybrid power units they use today the engine will be chaper to develop because all the hybrid technology and battery packs are very expensive, that's why they will skip the MGU-H because it's very complex and very expensive, and that was kind of a demand when Audi was to enter as an engine manufacturer. 2
Mattilacken Posted March 23 Posted March 23 On 3/23/2025 at 4:07 PM, Force said: Ford is doing their engine in conjunction with Red Bull Power Train who today does the Honda engines Red Bull and Racing Bulls use, so Ford doesn't start with a blank sheet of paper as RBPT is building engines allready. And yes, Cadillac will be the 11th team, so they did not buy their way in like Audi did, but Audi will do their own power unit, they have been at it wor some time now...but the engine regulations have to be quite firm for some time before it's viable to put in the money. If the go away from the hybrid power units they use today the engine will be chaper to develop because all the hybrid technology and battery packs are very expensive, that's why they will skip the MGU-H because it's very complex and very expensive, and that was kind of a demand when Audi was to enter as an engine manufacturer. Expand True that, ford is almost more like a name sponsor in that sense. But of course they bring their own crew to the game. As long as they don’t put wet belts in the engines, right? 😉 1
lordairgtar Posted March 23 Author Posted March 23 (edited) On 3/23/2025 at 2:16 AM, RW033 said: I’m not an F1 fan but am a GM fan, I thought GM was doing their own engine, correct me if I’m wrong, but does “power unit” maybe refer to the hybrid part of the drivetrain? Expand Well, Ferarri says transmission and power unit. I assumed that meant the engine as well. Ferrari has announced that it will be the power unit and gearbox supplier starting with the 2026 season. General Motors plans to develop its own F1 power unit and debut it for the 2028 season; however, Cadillac plans to take to the grid in two years before that, so the team needed to find a power unit partner to kick things off. The agreement between Ferrari and the Cadillac Formula 1 Team is subject to the team receiving confirmation from the FIA that its entry to the 2026 FIA Formula One Championship has been accepted and approved. The last paragraph is attributed to Road and Track article. https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a63159641/cadillac-formula-1-team-will-race-with-ferrari-power-in-2026/ Edited March 23 by lordairgtar 1
sfhess Posted March 24 Posted March 24 GM had to pay a huge "dilution fee" for the privilege to compete in F1. Big payday for the other teams. Money talks. Christian Horner: GM's $450 Million F1 Dilution Bill 'A Christmas Bonus' for Other Teams
Mattilacken Posted March 24 Posted March 24 On 3/23/2025 at 10:50 PM, lordairgtar said: Well, Ferarri says transmission and power unit. I assumed that meant the engine as well. Ferrari has announced that it will be the power unit and gearbox supplier starting with the 2026 season. General Motors plans to develop its own F1 power unit and debut it for the 2028 season; however, Cadillac plans to take to the grid in two years before that, so the team needed to find a power unit partner to kick things off. The agreement between Ferrari and the Cadillac Formula 1 Team is subject to the team receiving confirmation from the FIA that its entry to the 2026 FIA Formula One Championship has been accepted and approved. The last paragraph is attributed to Road and Track article. https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a63159641/cadillac-formula-1-team-will-race-with-ferrari-power-in-2026/ Expand Yes they want to join for the new car and engine rules that comes in 2026. because its a good time to enter when the rules change.
PatW Posted March 25 Posted March 25 Ilive about 5 miles from the Silverstone Circuit. Cadillac F1 have a unit there.
Force Posted March 30 Posted March 30 There has been much talk lately about returning to 3 litre V10 engines on sustainable fuel and skip the hybrid systems and even maybe as soon as 2026, pretty much like WRC has done for this year, I don't belive it's possible in such short time as much work has been done for the 2026 cars allready, but we'll see. It's the complex hybrid systems that are expensive to develop and get to work, not the combustion engines themselves as most manufacturers has that covered.
Mattilacken Posted March 31 Posted March 31 On 3/30/2025 at 7:59 PM, Force said: There has been much talk lately about returning to 3 litre V10 engines on sustainable fuel and skip the hybrid systems and even maybe as soon as 2026, pretty much like WRC has done for this year, I don't belive it's possible in such short time as much work has been done for the 2026 cars allready, but we'll see. It's the complex hybrid systems that are expensive to develop and get to work, not the combustion engines themselves as most manufacturers has that covered. Expand That would be epic, and I belive many folowing the sport would encorage it. And if we compare where alot of the electricity (not regen of course) comes from, a good fuel would still be better. But then again should we grow plats for food or for fuel? Debates debates...
Bainford Posted March 31 Posted March 31 I don't care if they run them on monkey pee, just bring back Naturally Aspirated engines, and leave the hybrids for soccer moms and their huge, over-powered SUVs. 1
PatW Posted April 1 Posted April 1 Good to see previous Red Bull driver Sergio (Checo) Perez back into F1 with Cadillac or so it's rumoured! 2
Bainford Posted April 1 Posted April 1 On 4/1/2025 at 3:39 PM, PatW said: Good to see previous Red Bull driver Sergio (Checo) Perez back into F1 with Cadillac or so it's rumoured! Expand Really!? That's very interesting. I have not heard this, but it would be good to see Checo back in the cockpit.
Force Posted April 5 Posted April 5 On 3/31/2025 at 6:48 AM, Mattilacken said: That would be epic, and I belive many folowing the sport would encorage it. And if we compare where alot of the electricity (not regen of course) comes from, a good fuel would still be better. But then again should we grow plats for food or for fuel? Debates debates... Expand Yes it's not the internal combustion engine that's wrong, it's the fuel it runs on. Sustainable fuel can come from many places, not just from agricultural sources, it will come but it just takes time to do it economically viable. 1
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