Reissuing Old Kits Through 3D Tech, Is It Possible?

[oldcarfan]

This is me being bored, so forgive the time waster. I've bought several each of the new/old AMT kits, the Nova wagon, and the 60 and 63 Ford trucks. Round 2 really seems to be blazing the trail for cloning kits, but I'm hoping that it's sales will entice Revell or Atlantis or even Johan's current owner to enter the game, too. I realize that it might not be financially viable to do this with all kits, some had a niche appeal. A lot of the 60s kits were offered in 4 door or wagon versions that might not be worth the cost of new tooling. I don't know all the ins and outs of the industry, but it seems to me that 3D printing is becoming cheaper and more detailed every time I turn around. I've recently bought parts from several vendors and the quality is getting up to plastic kit quality.

I'm wondering if the old-line model kit companies might someday be able to scan their kits that might be less mass market big sellers. Maybe they could offer them in limited run 3D 'collector' kits, or license the scan rights out to a 3D printing company, or maybe even sell the files to individuals with the file set up for home printing.

For example, lots of kits, MPC's 74-76 Camaros and Firebirds and their small bumper Vegas and Pintos, and early Dodge van, or AMT's small bumper Gremlin, come to mind. might not move enough units to make new plastic model tools viable, but perhaps 3D printed versions could be made? Extra points if they were to add the base model flat hoods and hubcaps for the Camaros and Firebirds. For that matter maybe they could digitally downscale the 1/20th Ford van to 1/25th for those of us with scale OCD?

This all seems feasible to me, but I'm definitely no expert.

[Force]

You can do almost anything with 3D priniting so of course it's possible.
But a complete 3D printed kit will most likely not be cheap, just look at what the prices are on individual parts, so I don't know if it would be economical to do it, at least not in volume and not like the injection molded kits where you do thousands in the same time it takes to print one.

[StevenGuthmiller]

Just wait.

3-D printing is basically still in it’s infancy.

It won’t surprise me in the least if in the not too distant future, multiple examples of a print will be able to be produced at one time, in a large machine within a matter of minutes, making injection kit molding obsolete.

Then, with a few key strokes on a keyboard, the whole operation might be able to be switched over to an entirely different print within a few seconds, and the next batch of 30 kits begins printing.

Someday we’ll probably look back and laugh about all of the programming and long  print times that are required today, kind of like we laugh at 8-track tapes and VHS recorders today.

But, in the meantime, I’m completely content with my skeezy old plastic kits.

I’m probably not going to be around for the “revolution”, or at least to old to give a rat’s behind about it when it comes.

 

 

Steve

Edited March 23 by StevenGuthmiller

[Force]

Well Steve, I'm not so sure 3D printing will replace injection molding and make it obsolete any time soon.
To develop and draw up a kit in a CAD program takes the same time if you will do an injection molded kit or a 3D printed kit so the difference is the tool cutting time for the injection mold, but I'm sure you will get out a larger production capacity from that than the 3D printing will ever do, not from one machine.
When you are doing the volumes the injection molded kits are done in there isn't even a competition, the molding process in an injection molding machine takes a few seconds per shot and you mold every part for the kit in the same tool at the same time and get out thousands and thousands of copys a day.
So for small scale production 3D printing is fine but not for larger productions where it needs capacity to do large volumes in a short time.
If we go to model kit production, once the tool is cut and done they can do the whole years planned production for a kit in a day or two in one machine, change tools to do another kit, and then another and so on.

[stitchdup]

there are some older kits being scanned. I've seen tweedie pie, lil coffin and other show rods scanned and the files for sale still on the sprues. to me this feels wrong, but they are available

[Mattblack]

Funny, I've been thinking the exact same thing, but you probably put it better than I would have.

I'd love to have the old Airfix custom car kits back again.

[Mike 1017]

How many Spools of 3d Filament are needed to make a complete 1:24th car? How much does a spool of filament cost?

Mike

[StevenGuthmiller]

12 hours ago, Force said:

Well Steve, I'm not so sure 3D printing will replace injection molding and make it obsolete any time soon.
To develop and draw up a kit in a CAD program takes the same time if you will do an injection molded kit or a 3D printed kit so the difference is the tool cutting time for the injection mold, but I'm sure you will get out a larger production capacity from that than the 3D printing will ever do, not from one machine.
When you are doing the volumes the injection molded kits are done in there isn't even a competition, the molding process in an injection molding machine takes a few seconds per shot and you mold every part for the kit in the same tool at the same time and get out thousands and thousands of copys a day.
So for small scale production 3D printing is fine but not for larger productions where it needs capacity to do large volumes in a short time.
If we go to model kit production, once the tool is cut and done they can do the whole years planned production for a kit in a day or two in one machine, change tools to do another kit, and then another and so on.

Sure, when you look at it through the lens of the technology that we have today, but nothing ever stays the same.

Time marches on, and technologies advance, sometimes at the speed of light!

Who's to say that in the future, the designing portion may already be done for you through a huge catalog of finished designs, so that all that one will have to do is punch a computer key and have it ready for print.

Then, through advancement of the machinery needed, a manufacturer could possibly have large enough machines to print 30 or 40 kits in a pop within a few minutes, or even seconds.

Then of course there's the possibility that virtually every home will have a 3-D printer capable of the same speeds, and along with a vast catalog of subjects available to download for a few dollars, there would be no need for injection molded kits at all, if you could produce whatever kit you wanted for a few bucks in a matter of minutes.

I'm sure at one point the concept of being able to buy a ready made frozen meal and being able to pop it into a metal box for a minute to be ready to eat was a pie in the sky concept as well.

Now we don't even think about it.

 

 

 

 

Steve

Edited March 23 by StevenGuthmiller

[Ace-Garageguy]

4 hours ago, Mike 1017 said:

How many Spools of 3d Filament are needed to make a complete 1:24th car? How much does a spool of filament cost?

Mike

Filament printing isn't used for high-quality kits.

They're printed with laser-cured goo.

The current drawback to 3D printing anything in high resolution is simply the time it takes to do it.

For the foreseeable future injection-molding is blazingly fast by comparison.

BUT...metal dies that can be used to injection-mold styrene parts CAN be 3D printed, so that's a viable near-term option for cost-effective short runs.

The tech to put parts or sprues in a "smart" chamber to be scanned exceedingly accurately already exists, as does the numerical crunch capability required to turn a scan "inside out" to create a print file for injection-molding dies.

Integrating all the required steps into a "one touch button" system is not particularly difficult from an engineering standpoint, and "desktop" injection-molding is also already a thing.

 

 

 

Edited March 23 by Ace-Garageguy

[Falcon Ranchero]

I'll still be here in the far future when they start pumping out 3D printined 1960 Plymouth kits from original JoHans

[NOBLNG]

I can’t see a company mass producing 3d printed kits. It’s just too time consuming. More likely as Steve says, a company will produce a huge catalog of licensed files that end users can rent or purchase to print on their own machines. Also there will be printing companies (there likely already are) who will print any file for a price for those who do not want to buy and operate their own printer. Future innovations may change the possibilities.

Edited March 23 by NOBLNG

[Brian Austin]

The problem with 3D printed kits is that they can be rather expensive, as was discussed in the Tucker and Cadillac 3D printed kit threads elsewhere.

[Beans]

17 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

BUT...metal dies that can be used to injection-mold styrene parts CAN be 3D printed, so that's a viable near-term option for cost-effective short runs.

 

That right there seems to be the most logical next step.  

[Carmak]

Really good high detail scanners that are needed to scan a model car (to clearly render a grille pattern or emblem for example) are still fairly specialized and fairly expensive.

My company makes medical devices of roughly the same size as model cars. We have a 2 year old mid range scanner ($30k) and it can not scan sharp inside corners like where a door handle meets the door, it puts in an inside round of 0.040"-0.060". Last fall a company did a demo scan for us using a higher range scanner ($250k) and the inside rounds got down to 0.020"-0.030". The actual inside round on the part scanned was 0.010".

I think even the $250K scanner would would be challenged to correctly render a fine mesh grille of a model car  grille.

I suspect Round2 is using a fairly high quality scanner to get the basic shapes and is using a fair amount of CAD work to fix/repair the scan. 

A possible example of this is the fender mounted turn signal indicators on the 68 Coronet kits. I suspect these features did not scan clean and they were removed and added back using cad. If you compare and original issue and the modern clone the signal indicators are in different locations.

I agree with many other that scanning and printing are at early stages of development. The goal of scanning and printing a model car probably will be reached but I am not sure we are quite there for people with real world budgets.

 

[Justin Porter]

If we look currently at the 3D printing kit space, we're seeing that manufacturers are popping up that are producing full kits of cars previously not offered in 1/24th-1/25th scale frequently with far better detail than many current (and certainly most vintage) injection molded kits. 

Look, for instance, at Red Wheel and their astonishing Tucker and Cadillac kits and think to yourself that this has been accomplished by essentially a "one-man band" serving every role from CAD file to shipping and wholesale. If this can be accomplished by such an individual - even granting that this is a very talented and dedicated individual - then think of what could happen if a full company devoted the time and investment into producing kits of that quality. 

Currently, we're already seeing in military kit companies like Rye Field Models, Special Hobby, and Arma a move to include 3D printed detail parts in their kits in place of traditional resin casting. NuNu has also moved towards including 3D printed parts for better detailed grilles in their touring car kits. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

23 hours ago, Justin Porter said:

If we look currently at the 3D printing kit space, we're seeing that manufacturers are popping up that are producing full kits of cars previously not offered in 1/24th-1/25th scale frequently with far better detail than many current (and certainly most vintage) injection molded kits...

I have some engine kits and engine parts that were 3D printed by wizards exactly like you're describing...from CAD rendering all the way through to final prints.

The ones I'm referring to are staggeringly good...and most of the guys here have probably never seen them.

Considering the quality and detail, in MY mind, the prices are entirely justified.

As Carmac says above, developing accurate tooling from scans for injection-molding (the most cost-effective way to make plastic parts for large runs) may very well take a combination of scanning technology to get the shapes, lines, and proportions copied from existing kits, and some CAD work to tune up fine details.

Still, it's all within the realm of what's currently possible, and the prices for exceedingly high-resolution scanners will continue to come down, as all tech does with time.

There are, by the way, many poorly-rendered, poorly-proportioned, and marginally printed 3D kits out there too...and I have several that disappointed me mightily considering how relatively easy it would have been to get the numbers RIGHT.

As with every field of human endeavor, there are people who are very very good at what they do, and those who aren't and just don't care.

 

[gtx6970]

On 3/22/2025 at 8:46 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

Just wait.

3-D printing is basically still in it’s infancy.

It won’t surprise me in the least if in the not too distant future, multiple examples of a print will be able to be produced at one time, in a large machine within a matter of minutes, making injection kit molding obsolete.

Then, with a few key strokes on a keyboard, the whole operation might be able to be switched over to an entirely different print within a few seconds, and the next batch of 30 kits begins printing.

Someday we’ll probably look back and laugh about all of the programming and long  print times that are required today, kind of like we laugh at 8-track tapes and VHS recorders today.

But, in the meantime, I’m completely content with my skeezy old plastic kits.

I’m probably not going to be around for the “revolution”, or at least to old to give a rat’s behind about it when it comes.

 

 

Steve

Im with ya there

[Bugatti Fan]

Developing and making very low production items costs.  Period!  That's why they are relatively very expensive.

As for copying kits, unless just making for oneself then the copyright bean counters might get involved if they get marketed without a licence. Even if a company has been defunct for a number of years one might not know if the licences have been bought out even if the kits may have not been produced for many, many years.

Cannot ever see the big companies ever doing limited runs by 3D printing. Just not worth their while to do it.

3D printing despite ever improving developments by way of the process will never, ever compete with the speed of an injection moulding machine for mass production.

Where high definition 3D printing does come into its own is being able to make fully detailed and refined complete items that would never be possible either on an injection moulding machine, die casting machine or by conventional resin moulding processes.

As I see it 3D printing will continue to satisfy niche users by being able to make things in better definition and pretty much replacing the market that the after market resin parts maker does. It will thrive in making complete kits that mainstream manufacturers would not even consider, trans kits to do conversions, modification parts and better defined replacements for kit parts.

This is how this modeller sees it going at least for the foreseeable future.

Edited March 29 by Bugatti Fan

[stavanzer]

4 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

Developing and making very low production items costs.  Period!  That's why they are relatively very expensive.

As for copying kits, unless just making for oneself then the copyright bean counters might get involved if they get marketed without a licence. Even if a company has been defunct for a number of years one might not know if the licences have been bought out even if the kits may have not been produced for many, many years.

Cannot ever see the big companies ever doing limited runs by 3D printing. Just not worth their while to do it.

3D printing despite ever improving developments by way of the process will never, ever compete with the speed of an injection moulding machine for mass production.

Where high definition 3D printing does come into its own is being able to make fully detailed and refined complete items that would never be possible either on an injection moulding machine, die casting machine or by conventional resin moulding processes.

As I see it 3D printing will continue to satisfy niche users by being able to make things in better definition and pretty much replacing the market that the after market resin parts maker does. It will thrive in making complete kits that mainstream manufacturers would not even consider, trans kits to do conversions, modification parts and better defined replacements for kit parts.

This is how this modeller sees it going at least for the foreseeable future.

I agree with your thoughts, exactly, Noel.

It will be a few more years, but I see that already happening with a few resin casters. More and more will do so in the future.

[Force]

On 3/23/2025 at 6:22 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

Sure, when you look at it through the lens of the technology that we have today, but nothing ever stays the same.

Time marches on, and technologies advance, sometimes at the speed of light!

Who's to say that in the future, the designing portion may already be done for you through a huge catalog of finished designs, so that all that one will have to do is punch a computer key and have it ready for print.

Then, through advancement of the machinery needed, a manufacturer could possibly have large enough machines to print 30 or 40 kits in a pop within a few minutes, or even seconds.

Then of course there's the possibility that virtually every home will have a 3-D printer capable of the same speeds, and along with a vast catalog of subjects available to download for a few dollars, there would be no need for injection molded kits at all, if you could produce whatever kit you wanted for a few bucks in a matter of minutes.

I'm sure at one point the concept of being able to buy a ready made frozen meal and being able to pop it into a metal box for a minute to be ready to eat was a pie in the sky concept as well.

Now we don't even think about it.

 

 

 

 

Steve

Well I don't see that happening any time soon, by the time that 3D machine print out 30-40 kits the injection mold machine has produced hundreds.
So I don't belive the 3D print will make injection molding obsolete in a forseeable future.

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Force said:

Well I don't see that happening any time soon, by the time that 3D machine print out 30-40 kits the injection mold machine has produced hundreds.
So I don't belive the 3D print will make injection molding obsolete in a forseeable future.

Well, maybe you’re right.

But let’s put it this way.

How many of us here ever contemplated just a few short years ago that some one would be able to sit down at a computer and print out a complicated and detailed 3 dimensional object in their own home.

If we’ve ever learned anything it’s that nobody can predict what technological advancements could be just around the corner.

I for one will not pretend that I have any idea what will come, even a year from now.

 

 

Steve

[Ace-Garageguy]

I'm always amused...  

Edited March 31 by Ace-Garageguy

[Force]

On 3/30/2025 at 11:31 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

Well, maybe you’re right.

But let’s put it this way.

How many of us here ever contemplated just a few short years ago that some one would be able to sit down at a computer and print out a complicated and detailed 3 dimensional object in their own home.

If we’ve ever learned anything it’s that nobody can predict what technological advancements could be just around the corner.

I for one will not pretend that I have any idea what will come, even a year from now.

 

 

Steve

Yes you are right there, 3D printing has done much for the hobby so far and will probably do more in the future as nothing is impossible with this technique.
But for real mass production it has a long way to go yet.
But I wish I could use a CAD program and have a 3D printer myself...I have lots and lots of ideas on things I want to do.

[mikemodeler]

Interesting discussion. I personally think 3D printing and injection molding will be a part of our hobby for a fair amount of time. There are providers out there supplying us 3D parts and kits that the model companies will likely never offer due to the manufacturing costs. 

20 years ago we had the likes of Don Holthaus creating masters to resin cast parts and kits that either were long out of production or never kitted and we bought them because it was the only way to build that model we craved. As Don aged and wanted to retire, 3D printing started becoming more common and possibly less labor intensive than casting, and his huge catalog of parts and kits became a memory. People who started out resin casting are moving to 3D printing because of the time and money involved. Joseph at Fireball is retiring some of his resin tire molds and replacing them with 3D prints for that reason.

I personally think we are living in a great time for this hobby. So many people offering parts and kits that we could only dream of in the past. You want a Duramax Diesel pickup kit? It can be had with 3D printing. Tire and wheel options are vast and for so many different types of vehicles from trucks to cars in custom or vintage styles. There are people offering us 3D printed kits of vehicles that we could have only dreamed of and now we see people requesting kits so unique that a model company will never kit.

I am sure model companies are looking at the technology available today to see how they can incorporate it into developing new kits and reviving kits that need some help to be viable for production and it will be interesting to see what is coming next.

[StevenGuthmiller]

9 hours ago, Force said:

Yes you are right there, 3D printing has done much for the hobby so far and will probably do more in the future as nothing is impossible with this technique.
But for real mass production it has a long way to go yet.
But I wish I could use a CAD program and have a 3D printer myself...I have lots and lots of ideas on things I want to do.

We can look at the possibility of 3-D printing replacing injection molding from a couple of different angles.

As a number of people have said, producing mass produced kits through 3-D printing may not be much of a threat to injection molding currently, and it may never replace it in terms of the ability to produce the numbers that injection molding can in a short period of time, but if you look at it from the perspective that there is a pretty good possibility that the designs for thousands of different intricately detailed kits might become available for a few dollars, or even free, to anybody that wants them, and then couple that with the possibility that any enterprising person could begin taking those designs and printing them quickly and cheaply with 3-D printing advancements and offering them for sale to the public, I think there's a strong possibility that the aftermarket could overwhelm the injection molding market.

In other words, if an individual can take advantage of those cheap available designs, and offer a printing service to print them economically, with better detail, more variety, and in the same neighborhood, or even cheaper as far as price goes, it's going to put a lot of stress on the injection molded model kit business.

If I can go online and find an aftermarket entity that can offer nearly any car model that I desire, and can compete in price with Round-2 or Revell, what's to keep me buying from the injection molding manufacturers.

I can easily see how in the not too distant future that I might be able to decide that I want a 1957 Buick Caballero station wagon, go online, and order it from a reputable aftermarket provider, much as I would from Fireball Modelworks today, for the same price, or possibly even cheaper than the $35.00 that I would spend on an injection molded kit from Revell.

I think it's obvious what that would mean for traditional model kit makers.

 

 

 

Steve