The REAL original "pony car"...

[Harry P.]

Here's one I've wondered about for a while...

Almost everyone accepts the Ford Mustang as the original "pony car"... a sporty coupe with the long hood/short deck proportions, bucket seats, floor shifter, etc. The Mustang gets all the glory and all the credit for being the granddaddy of them all.

But the Plymouth Barracuda, a car designed to appeal to the same demographic, and having the same attributes as the Mustang, is never thought of as the "original"... yet it came to market before the Mustang! But the Mustang outsold the Barracuda by about a billion to one.

Explanations?

[RodneyBad]

Easy answer.

it was a Plymouth..

True tat..

Don't laugh..

Maybe it was because of the HUGE back window?

so it was more of a fast back?

64 barracuda

Edited November 13, 2009 by Zukiholic

[Rob Hall]

Maybe part of it was that the original Barracuda was just a Valiant with a different roof, while though the Mustang was based on the Falcon, it had it's own body and interior..didn't look like the Falcon at all...

The most appealing Barracudas weren't until the '70-74 E-bodies, IMHO.

Edited November 13, 2009 by Rob Hall

[E St. Kruiser50]

Here's one I've wondered about for a while...

Almost everyone accepts the Ford Mustang as the original "pony car"... a sporty coupe with the long hood/short deck proportions, bucket seats, floor shifter, etc. The Mustang gets all the glory and all the credit for being the granddaddy of them all.

But the Plymouth Barracuda, a car designed to appeal to the same demographic, and having the same attributes as the Mustang, is never thought of as the "original"... yet it came to market before the Mustang! But the Mustang outsold the Barracuda by about a billion to one.

Explanations?

Good question Harry

I don't really think there is one good definitive answer, even though you'll probably get plenty of "Expert Opinions" , and lots of controversy over comments like mine, but hey - I was there.

I grew up in southern Calif. in the "GOLDEN AGE" of the 50's and 60's. The term "PonyCar" as I remember was coined some time after the Camaro's came out, and along with the Mustang, were put into that competitive catagory by the magazine writers of the day - ROAD AND TRACK - and so forth.

In that "GOLDEN AGE", we were all car crazy and speed crazy. The whole culture at the time was ingulfed in love of the automobile, and speed.

The most popular cars exuded power and muscle, as well as speed, style and looks.

The Baracuda at the time, was seen by many as an ugly duckling. They were great for drag racing, but I honestly never saw one set up for street - EVER - in L.A., Palm Springs, or in the Berdoo area.

It was the Plymouth 383, Bumble Bee's and so on, that all the Chrysler guys bought and street raced.

They were cheap and fast, and the engine choices were huge. Pontiac GTO's were popular too, along with Firebirds, Camaro's and a few Olds W30' s with the 455, and the 455 Buick Skylarks.

The big four in SoCal at the time were Mustangs, Camaro's, GTO's, and the full size light 383 Plymouths.

I drove a new '67 Mustang fastback Hi-pro 390, lowered all around, and set up for racing, with Americans, and Wide Ovals. It was the same color as Bullitt, with a white, full length pin stripe - NICE .

The Baracuda by most, at the time, was really never seen as a street racer or even considered a "Pony stye car".

Most never even liked the looks of the car. They're still fairly cheap to buy, especially compared to a Mustang or camaro.

Baracuda's though, were the "Hot Set-up" at the strip, as a dedicated race car. For racing and winning, the were the racers choice, including the "HURST HEMI UNDER GLASS".

I'm not saying that it isn't a car to be liked now, I'm just telling you how I remember it "BACK IN THE DAY" .

Edited November 13, 2009 by Treehugger Dave

[Modelmartin]

I don't know if there is an official definition but I don't think the first 2 styles of Baracuda could be called Pony cars. I thought that just the Mustang/Cougar and Camaro/Firebird and later, the 70 on Baracuda and Challenger and AMX were. Everything else was a Muscle car.

[Lownslow]

Easy answer.

it was a Plymouth..

True tat..

Don't laugh..

Maybe it was because of the HUGE back window?

so it was more of a fast back?

64 barracuda

those things look like the Azteks of that decade. 67 and up look great.

[george 53]

Harry, one of the guys said it was just a Valiant with a different roof. I REALLY think that was it. They didin't get a personality of their own till 67 when they took on their own look. The styling of the 67/71 Barracuda was the best of the genre.

Edited November 13, 2009 by george 53

[MrObsessive]

Change the proportions of that first gen Barracuda and it might have done better against the Mustang. Too much real estate behind the doors, not enough ahead of the doors. Not to mention those low rear quarter wheel wells.

It's almost like one type of car sitting on top of another------and like the others said, the Mustang was lookin' good right out of the box with just the right proportions in the right places.

Edited November 13, 2009 by MrObsessive

[Guest promodmerc]

there's something "fishy" going on here

my personal favorite is the '67-'69 Barracuda coupes! the fastbacks are cool and all, but that coupe just appeals to me for some reason. seems like the only ones people go really nuts for are the '70-'71 Hemi and 440 6-pack cars, those and the AAR. even the '68 Hemi Barracuda drag cars are looked over by most, unless you are into that kind of thing.

Dave

I'm with you Dave. The 67-69 look much better than the 70 & 71. The 64-66 are my second favorite years.

[Zoom Zoom]

The Mustang gets to take the honor because it was so attractive & newsworthy it captured the hearts of Americans & spawned an entire class of cars, including the anything-but-attractive knee-jerk-reaction known as the 1st generation Barracuda. The second & third generation Barracudas were attractive, but the Mustang is the original since it had an all-new body rather than just a tacked-on fastback.

[Harry P.]

I think several of you guys pretty much summed it up.

1. The Mustang, while basically a warmed-over Falcon, at least looked like an all-new car to the consumer because of its new sheetmetal and interior. To the consumer, Mustang was an "all new" car. Chrysler didn't hide the Barracuda's origin very well... the first year cars still had "Valiant" scripts!

2. The Mustang, right off the bat, offered 3 distinct body styles (more varieties appeal to more potential buyers). Barracuda only one (for the first year, more came later).

3. You could get a more powerful engine in a Mustang than a Barracuda (in the beginning, at least. The Hemi 'cuda was still a few years away).

I kind of like the styling of the first-gen Barracudas... they're quirky but good looking in their own way. But the second-gen cars were a huge improvement, probably the best looking of all.

[James Flowers]

I think the name Barracuda was the wrong name for the first model. It should have been called a"Carp" as it had no appeal . HA,HA

[LUKE'57]

Harry, I agree with you on everything except the three body styles "right off the bat" part. The 2+2 was more of a 65 1/2 as it was introduced at about the same time in '65 as the Galaxie and Falcon fastbacks were in '63. I had one of the original '65 fastback Mustangs and it was a neat little car. But one of the best things that Shelby did to his was to take out those tunnel vision louvers and replace them with windows so you could actually see behind you when changing lanes.

[Harry P.]

Harry, I agree with you on everything except the three body styles "right off the bat" part. The 2+2 was more of a 65 1/2 as it was introduced at about the same time in '65 as the Galaxie and Falcon fastbacks were in '63. I had one of the original '65 fastback Mustangs and it was a neat little car. But one of the best things that Shelby did to his was to take out those tunnel vision louvers and replace them with windows so you could actually see behind you when changing lanes.

The fastback was introduced in 1964... pretty close to "right off the bat!"

[Rob Hall]

So had the Barracuda been a bigger success than the Mustang, would the niche have been called 'fish cars'?

[Harry P.]

Strange but True Department: The Mustang wasn't named for the horse, it was named for the WWII fighter plane.

[CAL]

It was Dennis Shattuck of Car Life Magazine who coined the phrase to define an attractive sporty coupe with a long nose and short deck, inexpensive base price with some expensive options including a V8 engine targeted at the young.

The Mustang was purpose build.

The Barracuda was not a direct response to the Mustang but a dressed up Valiant, because go figure, Plymouth was have finacial problems and could afford to build a new purpose built pony car at that time. And people were just not that excited about it.

So for all practical purposes it wasn't till 1967 Plymouth had their first true Pony Car.

[CAL]

I think the name Barracuda was the wrong name for the first model. It should have been called a"Carp" as it had no appeal . HA,HA

It was orignally slated to called the Panda.

[Harry P.]

Strange But True Dept. 2: Plymouth execs originally wanted to name the car "Panda."

Edit: OOPS! Cal beat me to it!

[Harry P.]

Then why the running horse emblems??

Don't know for sure. All I know is what I've read... the name came from the P51 Mustang fighter plane. Probably the name "Mustang" came first (named for the plane), then they came up with the idea for the horse logo, which obviously makes sense for a car named "Mustang."

[Rob Hall]

Don't know for sure. All I know is what I've read... the name came from the P51 Mustang fighter plane. Probably the name "Mustang" came first (named for the plane), then they came up with the idea for the horse logo, which obviously makes sense for a car named "Mustang."

Ford had an interesting run of bird and horse cars there for a while, with the Thunderbird, Falcon, Mustang, Bronco, Maverick, Pinto...and cats at Mercury w/ Cougar and Bobcat.

[MrObsessive]

The fastback was introduced in 1964... pretty close to "right off the bat!"

True! The coupe and convertible were early 1965 models (advertising called them '64 1/2's but your title said 1965), and the fastback was intro'd just in time along with the other 1965 Ford models in the fall of '64.

[george 53]

Harry, the P-51 was actually called the Apache when introduced by North American Aviation. The British RE-named it the Mustang, an NAA, just kept the name.

[CAL]

Don't know for sure. All I know is what I've read... the name came from the P51 Mustang fighter plane. Probably the name "Mustang" came first (named for the plane), then they came up with the idea for the horse logo, which obviously makes sense for a car named "Mustang."

Maybe maybe not.

It has also been suggested that the Mustang name was first suggested by Robert J. Eggert, Ford Division market research manager. Eggert, a breeder of quarterhorses, received a birthday present from his wife of the book, The Mustangs by J. Frank Dobie in 1960. Later, the book’s title gave him the idea of adding the “Mustang†name for Ford’s new concept car. As the person responsible for Ford’s research on potential names, Eggert added “Mustang†to the list to be tested by focus groups; “Mustang,†by a wide margin, †came out on top under the heading: “Suitability as Name for the Special Car.â€

[sfhess]

Some early production prototypes for the Mustang had a Cougar in the corral, similar to what eventually showed up on the Mercury pony car, as "Cougar" was being considered up until shortly before introduction to the public.