Packard colors?

[Aaronw]

I've started the Packard Boattail Speedster, but I'm not finding a lot of examples (other than diecast). I don't care for the tan and brown of the box art which I believe is a car from the Harrah's collection.

I know that is was a high end very limited production car, so every one may have been unique. I found a few that were a solid color but it appears most are two tone.

I have found some photos of a silver and burgundy Speedster that is still around. I like the general look but find the silver washes out the effect of the chrome. I'm kind of leaning towards burgundy and a medium-dark grey or gunmetal.

I'm also having a very hard time with the straight 8. It appears the engine has a medium green block, but that is about as far as I trust the photos I've found, as some of the most detailed are from a diecast model.

Thanks

[sjordan2]

I've started the Packard Boattail Speedster, but I'm not finding a lot of examples (other than diecast). I don't care for the tan and brown of the box art which I believe is a car from the Harrah's collection.

I know that is was a high end very limited production car, so every one may have been unique. I found a few that were a solid color but it appears most are two tone.

I have found some photos of a silver and burgundy Speedster that is still around. I like the general look but find the silver washes out the effect of the chrome. I'm kind of leaning towards burgundy and a medium-dark grey or gunmetal.

I'm also having a very hard time with the straight 8. It appears the engine has a medium green block, but that is about as far as I trust the photos I've found, as some of the most detailed are from a diecast model.

Thanks

Here's a 1929 Packard roadster with some good engine pictures.

http://www.autosalon-singen.de/en/fahrzeug81540006-Packard-626.html

I'm sure Art Anderson can tell you everything you need to know about your kit and Packards.

[Aaronw]

Yeah, I'm hoping Art will have some info, but I didn't want to single him out.

Thanks, I've spent an hour or two looking at Packard photos and didn't run across that site. The car is different but still useful for details and the engine detail is very nice. I knew the model photos I saw had too much chrome.

[sjordan2]

Yeah, I'm hoping Art will have some info, but I didn't want to single him out.

Thanks, I've spent an hour or two looking at Packard photos and didn't run across that site. The car is different but still useful for details and the engine detail is very nice. I knew the model photos I saw had too much chrome.

That is a very useful site for a zillion cars, and it seldom shows up on Google searches.

[Art Anderson]

I've started the Packard Boattail Speedster, but I'm not finding a lot of examples (other than diecast). I don't care for the tan and brown of the box art which I believe is a car from the Harrah's collection.

I know that is was a high end very limited production car, so every one may have been unique. I found a few that were a solid color but it appears most are two tone.

I have found some photos of a silver and burgundy Speedster that is still around. I like the general look but find the silver washes out the effect of the chrome. I'm kind of leaning towards burgundy and a medium-dark grey or gunmetal.

I'm also having a very hard time with the straight 8. It appears the engine has a medium green block, but that is about as far as I trust the photos I've found, as some of the most detailed are from a diecast model.

Thanks

Packard engines of the day were very highly finished all over: Block (note that the crankcase was a separate aluminum casting, as was the oil pan, and thus were unpainted), head, crankshaft pulley were a very glossy olive green color, not unlike that used on US Army stateside staff cars. The fan should have a black center hub (looks like a spider) with bright silver blades. Intake and exhaust manifolds were black porcelain over cast iron, so gloss black should get the call there, as with the distributor body (the cap would have been a very dark brown as it was bakelite), carburetor should be gloss black, as would be the fuel vacuum tank on the firewall, the ignition coil, and the horns. Fanbelts and hoses back in those days were red rubber, so use a dull flat red. Plug wires of the day were generally covered in linen, which would have been a golden tan color, as the tan linen was sealed with varnish. Crankcase, bell housing, transmission and oil pan should be painted to look like cast aluminum.

As for body colors, not much is known today as to the colors used on the very few Boattail Speedsters, but perhaps the most striking restoration was that done by Harrah's Automobile Collection about 1970: Bright orange body, with chocolate brown body moldings and fenders, black rubber running boards, brown undersides of the fenders and the entire chassis. To be period correct, the tires need either to be blackwalled, or if whitewalls, whitewalls on both sides of each tire (that's how white wall tires were made from their inception to the end of civilian tire production from latex rubber in early 1942). Interior of the Harrah's car was natural cowhide.

Art

[Aaronw]

One more question on the engine, for a car that was actually driven would the gloss black enamel on the exhaust manifold actually hold up under use and remain gloss black or would a rusted cast iron be more appropriate?

The tip on the red hoses is good to know, I got started on a '28 Lincoln while I was waiting for this kit, and its engine is mostly black and grey from the few photos I found. Red hoses and belts will add a little color to the engine compartment.

Odd that the box art doesn't match your description, it is more of a tan with a salmon tinge, bright orange would be more interesting. The box is pretty old and worn though so it may be due to fading. I'll use your painting guidelines just altering the colors. The kit tires use white plastic inserts to make whitewalls on the outside, so I'll probably just reverse the tires and paint the inserts black.

Thanks

[Mr. Can Am Garage]

This Packard?

The straight 8.

[Art Anderson]

One more question on the engine, for a car that was actually driven would the gloss black enamel on the exhaust manifold actually hold up under use and remain gloss black or would a rusted cast iron be more appropriate?

The tip on the red hoses is good to know, I got started on a '28 Lincoln while I was waiting for this kit, and its engine is mostly black and grey from the few photos I found. Red hoses and belts will add a little color to the engine compartment.

Odd that the box art doesn't match your description, it is more of a tan with a salmon tinge, bright orange would be more interesting. The box is pretty old and worn though so it may be due to fading. I'll use your painting guidelines just altering the colors. The kit tires use white plastic inserts to make whitewalls on the outside, so I'll probably just reverse the tires and paint the inserts black.

Thanks

Aaron,

The black (or in the case of a Duesenberg, "apple green") porcelain stayed pretty clean and bright for years, of course after a couple of decades discoloring, and perhaps even becoming chipped in places.

Art

[Modelmartin]

Two things to add here. These were generally custom ordered and any color could be ordered so if you don't feel the need to copy a particular car anything you like will do. The Classic Car Club of America does accept any color on coachbuilt cars.

Also Chrome wire wheels were rare when these cars were new. It was much more common to have them painted one of the body colors with a bright hubcap and sometimes a trim ring around the rim. Those plastic wires in the kit will look better painted.

[Harry P.]

Here's one all decked out for Halloween! Looks pretty cool...

[Aaronw]

This Packard?

That is the one, yours came out very nice and is much flashier than my box art. The box must be really faded if it once looked like yours.

It appears to be a pretty nice kit, anything jump out at you that I might want to watch out for when building it? I got it primed today and am going out of town for a week and a half tomorrow. I plan to jump back into it when I get home, I am really liking the idea of a dark red or burgandy lower and charcoal grey upper.

Art, I missed it is a porcelain coating, my brain translated porcelain to enamel. Considering it would probably have been baked on at a temp much hotter than exhaust I imagine it would hold up on an engine quite well.

[sjordan2]

I know many people like flashy colors on these cars, but there's nothing like the elegance of simple ivory, cream, beige colors and combinations thereof – and sleek black on the other end of the spectrum.

[Mr. Can Am Garage]

That is the one, yours came out very nice and is much flashier than my box art. The box must be really faded if it once looked like yours.

It appears to be a pretty nice kit, anything jump out at you that I might want to watch out for when building it? I got it primed today and am going out of town for a week and a half tomorrow. I plan to jump back into it when I get home, I am really liking the idea of a dark red or burgandy lower and charcoal grey upper.

Art, I missed it is a porcelain coating, my brain translated porcelain to enamel. Considering it would probably have been baked on at a temp much hotter than exhaust I imagine it would hold up on an engine quite well.

I don't recall ANY issues with the kit. Following Art's "suggestions" is another story.

[Aaronw]

I know many people like flashy colors on these cars, but there's nothing like the elegance of simple ivory, cream, beige colors and combinations thereof – and sleek black on the other end of the spectrum.

I agree there are some very nice more conservatively colored cars out there too, I found some photos of a restored pale green 734 that was very nice. I'm going to save that for one of the larger touring cars with a more respectable owner when I get that far.

Andy, thanks for the tips, and Harry that must be Jack Skellingtons car.

[Aaronw]

I see it looks like you can switch the tops, and are not stuck choosing up or down. Can you remove the hood fairly easily? The straight 8 is neat so I was thinking about detailing it, but I'm not sure if it can be shown off if I do.

[Art Anderson]

I know many people like flashy colors on these cars, but there's nothing like the elegance of simple ivory, cream, beige colors and combinations thereof – and sleek black on the other end of the spectrum.

Much depended on the body style, and the region where the car was owned. Darker, conservative colors were pretty much the rule in the eastern US, even the midwest, but once one got to the Southwest and West Coast, all bets seemed to be off. Lighter, brighter colors seemed to be the rule rather than the exception in say, Los Angeles.

Of course, even with lacquer replacing the old hand-brushed enamels and varnishes, some colors were far from stable in UV light, most notably any color using red pigments--those faded rapidly. Although metallic lacquers became available by 1927-28, even those wore very poorly, as the lacquer carrier oxidized away, exposing the powdered metal flake, resulting in a dull finish that could only be restored by repainting the car. Not to be overlooked are the more primitive camera's and the type of black & white film used until the early 30's--those made for very stark pictures, even fairly light colors such as yellow showing up very darkly in B&W pics.

In any case, a perusal of paint chips from the late 20's into the early 30's will show that in many ways, cars were just as colorful then as in the 50's, albeit not having quite the brilliant shades. And with luxury cars, the sky was often the limit--the customer paying $5000 and up for a car back then could have it painted by the factory in just about any color they wanted.

Of course, the Great Depression wore some of this down--"conspicuous consumption" became, overnight, very un-PC, people who bought new cars (except in flashy places such as Hollywood) tended toward more somber, less attention-grabbing colors--and those didn't really reappear until about 1939-40, from my readings.

Art

I see it looks like you can switch the tops, and are not stuck choosing up or down. Can you remove the hood fairly easily? The straight 8 is neat so I was thinking about detailing it, but I'm not sure if it can be shown off if I do.

The hood on this one is an easy lift-off part.

Art

[Art Anderson]

Two things to add here. These were generally custom ordered and any color could be ordered so if you don't feel the need to copy a particular car anything you like will do. The Classic Car Club of America does accept any color on coachbuilt cars.

Also Chrome wire wheels were rare when these cars were new. It was much more common to have them painted one of the body colors with a bright hubcap and sometimes a trim ring around the rim. Those plastic wires in the kit will look better painted.

Actually, Andy.....

Chromed wire wheels on luxury cars were very popular in those years, particularly in the West and Southwest. Painted wire wheels on high end cars seem to have been fairly uncommon, except in the case of very conservative, ofteh "old money" families, particularly in the East, and New England. But be that as it may, lots of contemporary news photo's from the 30's show very glitzy town cars, with their darker, formal paintjobs, but with glittering chrome wire wheels. Cadillac and a couple others took the wheel treatment a step farther: Chromed spokes with painted hubs and rims (now try that in 1/25 scale!)

Art

[Harry P.]

I know many people like flashy colors on these cars, but there's nothing like the elegance of simple ivory, cream, beige colors and combinations thereof – and sleek black on the other end of the spectrum.

But these were flashy cars... they were bought because the owners wanted the "look at me" factor... so I think a flashy color scheme would be more in character. I'd bet that most of these cars were painted in pretty vivid shades back in the day.

Don't know if this one is the original color, but the vivid blue looks right at home on this car.

[Modelmartin]

Actually, Andy.....

Chromed wire wheels on luxury cars were very popular in those years, particularly in the West and Southwest. Painted wire wheels on high end cars seem to have been fairly uncommon, except in the case of very conservative, ofteh "old money" families, particularly in the East, and New England. But be that as it may, lots of contemporary news photo's from the 30's show very glitzy town cars, with their darker, formal paintjobs, but with glittering chrome wire wheels. Cadillac and a couple others took the wheel treatment a step farther: Chromed spokes with painted hubs and rims (now try that in 1/25 scale!)

Art

Gotta disagree on the chrome issue, Art. Even among Dueseys, I would guess that maybe only 20% of them had chrome wires when new. Page through the Elbert or Roe books and see what I mean. The showcars, Hollywood star owned, and very high-buck ones did. Of course every restored car from the 60s on had them chromed when restored. Thank goodness they are starting to get away from that a bit. Ditto on the whitewalls. Although they were more common than chrome wheels they certainly were not on every car! The chromed spokes and painted rims are a good look!

[sjordan2]

Many moons ago, I had a summer college internship at Warner Brothers / Burbank Studios, assigned to the set of "The F.B.I" TV series. Often, Efrem Zimbalist, Jr. would come to the studio in his early 1930s Packard phaeton. It was a light yellow/beige with biscuit interior, chrome wire wheels and whitewalls, and sported a crystal Lalique hood ornament of a falcon's head. Very thin red pinstriping accented it beautifully. One of the most stunning cars I've ever seen.

[Harry P.]

I wonder what Jay Leno would say? He probably owns a Packard or two...

[LDO]

I vote for flashy. Here's mine:

[Art Anderson]

Gotta disagree on the chrome issue, Art. Even among Dueseys, I would guess that maybe only 20% of them had chrome wires when new. Page through the Elbert or Roe books and see what I mean. The showcars, Hollywood star owned, and very high-buck ones did. Of course every restored car from the 60s on had them chromed when restored. Thank goodness they are starting to get away from that a bit. Ditto on the whitewalls. Although they were more common than chrome wheels they certainly were not on every car! The chromed spokes and painted rims are a good look!

An

Andy, JL Elbert's book shows far more "old, used, Duesenbergs" than new ones, as he wrote that book in the years immediately after WW-II, when most people thought of Duesenbergs, yes any car considered for membership in CCCA today, as just "used cars". It's pretty hard to tell from the pics in his book just what the wheels were done as, or whether they'd been subsequently painted. However, AJ Roe's book, along with a wide angle pic I have in a book somewhere of the Duesenberg Factory in Indianapolis, which clearly shows a large production run of Model J's, WITH plated wheels (but blackwall tires). One of the possible reasons for this may well have been ease of maintenance (cleaning). Painted wire wheels (ask anyone who's ever owned a Model A Ford with painted wire wheels!) not only does dust and dirt show up severely, but the inevitable stone chips in the paint make for rust stains oh-so-quickly. Now, not all luxury car makers pushed the chrome plated wheel--Packard is one, Duesenberg is another, both companies showing plated laced wire wheels in just about all their advertising, even in builder's photo's (which Roe's book is full of, BTW) of newly finished cars taken by their coachbuilders. But yes, there are some very significant Model J's which were equipped with painted wire wheels from the factory, but those, I believe, are exceptions.

Another thing to consider here: Not all the great Classics had laced wire wheels. Chrysler, for example, used the welded steel spoke technology for their wire wheels from about 1930 onward, on Chryslers and Chrysler Imperials, and those of course, were painted. The same was true of the Reo Royale, I believe, in addition to the junior series of Packards. Stutz was pretty well known for painting their wire wheels as well, even though they were using either Rudge or Dayton wheels.

As for wheels in general, it seems to me that Packard, by about 1928, was producing far more cars with steel disc wheels, even offering wood-spoke artillery wheels out to about 1933-34 for tradition-minded customers, and by 1933, steel artillery spoked wheels were very much in vogue. Wire wheels, plated, became outmoded, save for cars such as Duesenberg which were never engineered for anything but wires (even the few Model J's which show "disc" wheels were in fact wire wheels, with spun metal wheel covers of various styles fastened over the outside.

Art

Art

Edited May 17, 2010 by Art Anderson

[Aaronw]

I vote for flashy. Here's mine:

Now there is a combination I would not have imagined but it actually works.

[charlie8575]

I have one of these. That cream roadster in the link is pretty.

I'm leaning towards two-tone French/navy blue with cream striping. The idea of the painted wheels is actually rather appealing. I may do that to mine. Burgundy/Ivory with a light brown or tan also has some appeal.

This is one car that's almost impossible to screw up color-wise. Build what makes you happy!

Charlie Larkin