Trendy kits = goodby original

[Greg Myers]

How many kits can you think of that the manufactures have modified to make something trendy ruining the original to the point where we'll never see it again?

[highway]

One that I can think of right offhand is AMTs Kenworth W900 truck. According to everything I've heard on the subject, AMT ruined the mold for that trucks cab to make the modern T600A version in the early 90s. The kit was still based and still included the frame and engine from the 70s era W900 kit, but they modified the cab molds to produce the 90s era T600 aerodynamic cab.

[Harry P.]

You really can't blame the manufacturers for taking old tooling and modifying it to take advantage of the latest trends. It's a way for them to bring new life (and hopefully new sales) to an old kit without the expense of creating a whole new one.

You may not like it from a purist point of view, but it makes sense for the manufacturer from a $$$ point of view.

[Marc @ MPC Motorsports]

That what swap meets, Ebay, etc, are for. To find and purchase those kits that aren't available new anymore.

[Jantrix]

I also think that the manufacturers have realized the folly of their ways. We haven't seen this much lately. If anything they try to put things right. The Donk kits for instance. Trendy? You bet. But the stock parts are still there. The same with pro-street versions of popular kits. Revells 67 Chevelle and AMTs 70 Superbee and 66 Nova. And lets face it a lot of kits of the past were junk without ever being retooled. The 70's Revell IMSA kits. Remember the Mustang II and the Monza that shared interiors, chassis and drivetrain? I don't worry to much about the old kits. The future looks great if what the companies are releasing now is any indication. Long live scale auto modeling.

[Art Anderson]

I also think that the manufacturers have realized the folly of their ways. We haven't seen this much lately. If anything they try to put things right. The Donk kits for instance. Trendy? You bet. But the stock parts are still there. The same with pro-street versions of popular kits. Revells 67 Chevelle and AMTs 70 Superbee and 66 Nova. And lets face it a lot of kits of the past were junk without ever being retooled. The 70's Revell IMSA kits. Remember the Mustang II and the Monza that shared interiors, chassis and drivetrain? I don't worry to much about the old kits. The future looks great if what the companies are releasing now is any indication. Long live scale auto modeling.

Hindsight is always perfect 20/20 vision. Of course, knowing what WE know today, and what model companies know today as well, nobody today is likely to irretrievably modify an existing model kit tool into another version, unless of course that original version was an absolute sales dog (case in point, the Revell-Monogram '92 Chevy Caprice, which never sold at all well until the tooling was modified into the 1995 Impala SS).

But, back in the 1960's, very few of us could ever have imagined the day when there would be any interest in "last year's Annual 3in1 kits". We were most of us just kids back then--as say 15yr olds, very few of us could really imagine ourselves being even 25yr olds, let alone life in our 50's or 60's, and our hobby was very much dominated by our age group (Boomers!). Model companies recognized that fact back then as well, and so as tooling dollars got scarcer, and subject matter seemed to get harder to find that "killer" idea from, it was pretty natural to think about modifying old unused tooling that was just taking up expensive warehouse space. Why not make Saturday Night stockers out of some '65-'66 Annuals in 1968-69? AMT wasn't gonna be able to just squeeze out more of the originals, get any serious sales numbers out of them back then. And for sure, model companies weren't in the business of creating "Smithsonian Institution" type collections of 3000lb steel mold blocks, nor should they have been expected to. Geez, even the Big Three automakers scrapped old body tooling after they'd made up a sufficient stock of crash parts to last for say, 3-4 years or so after the real car was discontinued for the next year's model.

Even today, if given the choice, most modelers do like their 60's subjects done from new, 1990's and 2000's "state-of-the-art" tooling. Remember back, about 10-11 yrs ago, when AMT/Ertl reissued their very nice '62 Buick Electra 225 Hardtop 3in1 kit? Yeah, we older guys that we'd died and gone to Heaven, but what about younger builders, who had no memory of kits tooled the way they were, in 1962 (where were YOU in '62? Huh?)? Builders then in their 20's and 30's dissed that Buick to death practically--it was "rude, crude and socially unacceptable" to produce a model car kit with the chassis as a plastic plate, with molded on details (Oh, the humanity!!), in short, younger builders seem to have thought of that one as a ripoff, not realizing that it was then a roughly 35-40 year old product.

Time has a way of making us all stop to consider what we might do with stuff we buy, after all, "collectibility" has been a watchword in our hobby since its big resurgence in the early-mid 1980's, as it is with so many other toy and hobby products. But, in the late 1960's, indeed through most of the 1970's, that was not a driving force in this hobby, and model companies did what they did, in order to maximize their revenues and profits--be glad they did, otherwise it's likely that much of that old tooling would have been melted down into raw steel for other things.

Art

[Chuck Most]

Three words... Barnabas Vampire Van.

Why MPC chose to take a kit that could have had a long and sucessful life as a replica stock,light commerical, or rod model took it and butchered it into a promotional tie-in for a TV series which didn't even have a vehicle that resembled it has always confounded me! Sure, the Vampire Van is pretty cool for what it is... but wouldn't you really rather have the '32 Chevy Panel back?

[Nate]

Three words... Barnabas Vampire Van.

Why MPC chose to take a kit that could have had a long and sucessful life as a replica stock,light commerical, or rod model took it and butchered it into a promotional tie-in for a TV series which didn't even have a vehicle that resembled it has always confounded me! Sure, the Vampire Van is pretty cool for what it is... but wouldn't you really rather have the '32 Chevy Panel back?

That's the first kit I thought of when I read the topic. That Chevy Panel truck was an awesome kit. Managed to track down a built up "gangbusters" version of the kit with the original box, too bad it's gone for good.

[Harry P.]

Back in those days (1969), the hobby was still pretty much dominated by kids.

MPC took what was probably a slow-selling kit, and modified it to appeal to kids. Was it ultimately a good idea? Well, I'm sure that back in the late sixties when they made that decision, MPC felt it was a good idea from a financial point of view.

Now, the hobby is dominated by adult builders, who probably would take the stock version over the "Vampire Van" by a ratio of 100 to 1. But like Art said, hindsight is always 20/20...

[Chuck Most]

Yes I'd rather have the stock 32 Chevy panel van & no, the Barnabas Vampire Van isn't cool in any way!!!!!

Well, you can use it for parts to restore a glue-bomb MPC Chevy....

A Vampire Van reissue will be donating most of its chassis parts to this one. The reissues can be gotten for pretty cheap prices, far less than a sealed original Panel, or even an original VV.

Or, you could do something really nutty, and turn the Vampire Van into a '32 Chevy Pickup Rat Rod...

Combine it with a few more spare '32 Cabriolet parts, and you could even do a replica stock or rod pickup version, if you weren't against a little scratchbuilding and kitbashing! (For a detailed analasis on the meaning of these two terms, see Harry's recent post! )

[Harry P.]

In 1969 I was just getting into model building, & soon after that I got into horror novels & movies, so I got into "Dark Shadows" by 1970, & I still thought it was a dumb model even then!!!

Apparently you were wise beyond your years...

[Chuck Most]

I still don't get it... when The X-Files came out, AMT/Ertl didn't say "Hey, Mulder and Skully drive a Taurus... let's turn our SHO into a rental-fleet trimmed model, slap an X-Files logo on the box, and rake in the bucks!" But it appears that's what MPC did, even though Barnabas had no hot rod!

Not saying a base-model early '90's Taurus kit wouldn't be of interest to anybody,but still...

[Monty]

I'd love to have the original back instead of this turd.

[Chuck Most]

The first thing that this thread reminded me of was the Beverly Hillibillies kit which had been "ruined" when MPC made the pirate ship car (Jolly Rodger) out of it. The kit was a mega-buck Holy Grail for a lot of people.

Then AMT re-tools the missing parts, reissues the kit in both (BH/pirate ship) forms, and nobody cared.

I was never aware that this kit was retooled in that manner- I've seen a Jolly Roger built up, but always assumed it was a scratchbuilt job! It is kind of nice AMT restored the original parts. Now, I just might have to look for that Jolly Rodger, just for fun!

Yeah- it is funny how there was a huge collector market for the Hillbillies Olds, yet when it was reissued, it was a monumental flop. (Didn't stop me from buying fifteen of the things, though. )

[Marc @ MPC Motorsports]

I returned to the hobby in 2000 after a 25 year absence. I started to build my collection from ground zero. I've never sat around waiting and wondering when a model kit manufacturer would issue/reissue a certain kit. I sourced vintage kits and builders from Ebay and over the last 10 years have managed to acquire most any muscle car kit that I would ever want to build. The aftermarket and fellow model builders and collectors have been good sources for missing parts and reissues of vintage tool kits make good parts kits.

Instead of crying about long modified or lost tooling for certain kits, keep looking for them in the secondary market. They are out there. And, if you already have a vintage kit or three in your collection, feel free to build it.

[highway]

Instead of crying about long modified or lost tooling for certain kits, keep looking for them in the secondary market. They are out there.

The major factor, in my opinion, is not if they are out there or not, but the price! The Kenworth W900 truck kit I referred to earlier I have seen on Ebay numerous times, but normally kits in any worthwhile condition, in my opinion a factory sealed or at least sealed inside kit, usually sell in the $50-$75 price range, with some going well over $100. That is not an option for me at this time, but if the molds were still usable, such as many other AMT truck kits currently being reissued, I could afford to spend the $25-$30 the new reissues are retailing for, and I would also be guaranteed the kit would be complete!

[Marc @ MPC Motorsports]

The major factor, in my opinion, is not if they are out there or not, but the price! The Kenworth W900 truck kit I referred to earlier I have seen on Ebay numerous times, but normally kits in any worthwhile condition, in my opinion a factory sealed or at least sealed inside kit, usually sell in the $50-$75 price range, with some going well over $100. That is not an option for me at this time, but if the molds were still usable, such as many other AMT truck kits currently being reissued, I could afford to spend the $25-$30 the new reissues are retailing for, and I would also be guaranteed the kit would be complete!

Believe me, I understand the money part. I don't know how often you spend $25-30 on a kit, but the $50-75 range is equal to the cost of two new issues.

Many of the vintage cars I have bought were builders, many of them incomplete. I enjoy restoring a vintage model kit much like folks do 1:1 vehicles, but many model builders like yourself would rather start with a complete unbuilt and I understand that.

[mikemodeler]

I saw this topic and thought of the MPC Dodge Pickup kits we all built and want again that were turned into Monster Trucks.

I know there are a bunch of kits we all miss but I guess it is probably going to be a swap meet or online vendor to the rescue!

[highway]

Believe me, I understand the money part. I don't know how often you spend $25-30 on a kit, but the $50-75 range is equal to the cost of two new issues.

Many of the vintage cars I have bought were builders, many of them incomplete. I enjoy restoring a vintage model kit much like folks do 1:1 vehicles, but many model builders like yourself would rather start with a complete unbuilt and I understand that.

As with Marc, I'm a big fan of rebuilders and restoring old kits that may need extra work to keep the costs reasonable. What I would add is that if you don't have to have it right away, you can usually get what you want eventually for a lot less than the "going rate." Some annual kits can't be reissued 100% original anymore because they were updated.

Marc, in my present situation, I might buy a new issue kit maybe once or twice a month, if that.

Of course, I think I see my biggest difference between both you and Mark. Even though I have a few rebuilders sitting around the house, I'm not a real big fan of rebuilders or built ups. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with them, because in fact, the AMT Kenworth I've been referring to, I have both a restorer that I was lucky enough to trade for here and also an "Alaskan Hauler" version of the same kit that came with the option to build as a regular version as well. The rebuilder is in decent shape, maybe a part broken here or there, but the parts that are broken are clean breaks that are easliy fixable. As for the complete kit, I was lucky enough to find it in my LHS a couple years back, when money was not as tight, from some kits they found at an estate sale, and it was still factory sealed inside. That kit I did pay $60 for, but I was also able to look through it before buying it, too.

[Chuck Most]

I'm a big fan of rebuilding 'glue bombs' and started kits as well- I've gotten a few rare old annual kits and long OOP pieces for a fraction of their 'book value', in some cases, even for less than the cost of a current Lindberg or AMT reissue! I know for a fact that's about the only way I'll ever end up with some of my holy grail kits... without bankrupting myself!

[Marc @ MPC Motorsports]

I'm a big fan of rebuilding 'glue bombs' and started kits as well- I've gotten a few rare old annual kits and long OOP pieces for a fraction of their 'book value', in some cases, even for less than the cost of a current Lindberg or AMT reissue! I know for a fact that's about the only way I'll ever end up with some of my holy grail kits... without bankrupting myself!

Exactly!!! It's fun too.

And, there is the "thrill of the hunt", so to speak, of finding the necessary replacement parts that aren't available in the aftermarket for that glue bomb.

[highway]

I'm a big fan of rebuilding 'glue bombs' and started kits as well- I've gotten a few rare old annual kits and long OOP pieces for a fraction of their 'book value', in some cases, even for less than the cost of a current Lindberg or AMT reissue! I know for a fact that's about the only way I'll ever end up with some of my holy grail kits... without bankrupting myself!

Exactly!!! It's fun too.

And, there is the "thrill of the hunt", so to speak, of finding the necessary replacement parts that aren't available in the aftermarket for that glue bomb.

I don't have any problems with rebuilders, like I told Marc and Mark last night, I'm just not that big into them. As I said, though, I do have a few, and one I just recently acquired was a Monogram Lamborghini I've been looking to replace for years since I lost the original in a house fire in 1997. It was by accident it was a glue bomb, I found it at the same hobby shop I found the Kenworth kit a few years ago. They had gotten some more estate sale stuff, and I seen it on the shelf, and asked the manager of the shop to get it down, since it was just out of my reach. I asked him if he minded if I went though it to make sure it was all there, which he had no problem with, and I'm thinking "Finally I got one again!" I opened the box to see this:

I was horrified and almost lost my lunch, but thought "Well, maybe it still has hope." My mind was really made up when the hobby shop manager told me the price for it, he more or less told me to get the thing out of the shop, and he gave it to me for NOTHING! I even went back a couple weeks later and picked up another rebuilder NASCAR kit to either rebuild or part out for $3! So, even though I prefer unbuilt kits, I will still get a rebuilder every now and then! I never know when I might get bored with more intentsive builds and want a change of pace.

[charlie8575]

I still don't get it... when The X-Files came out, AMT/Ertl didn't say "Hey, Mulder and Skully drive a Taurus... let's turn our SHO into a rental-fleet trimmed model, slap an X-Files logo on the box, and rake in the bucks!" But it appears that's what MPC did, even though Barnabas had no hot rod!

Not saying a base-model early '90's Taurus kit wouldn't be of interest to anybody,but still...

Hmm....maybe it's just my mainstreamer thing kicking in, but, yeah, I'd've bought a bunch, including one to try and make a wagon out of (Taurus wagons in these parts were, and still are, EVERYWHERE.) I know...not a typical high school kid thing (point of information: I was late high school/early college when the X-Files was on, I never really watched it.)

Charlie Larkin

[Nick Notarangelo]

Heres what kills me about all this.

We have the guys whom do nothing but hold on to the olderkits cause they might build them some day or hold on to a memorie of that said kit and then jack its price up to toss it on ebay and score a buck or two off something they really really wanted to build at some point.

A model kit is something you buildand have fun with and if your not going to build it then pass it tosomeone else who will have fun with it,we had a guy here in my area whom did nothing but collect kits to "build one day" when he passed away his wife donated the whole collection to the local air museam,oh an the said collection fit in a small cargo carrier I know I've seen it first hand.

guys just build and have fun if you get or have a older kit do the right thing and just build it and have fun with it

[Greg Myers]

Nick very well put. They are meant to be built.

But they're still mine and I'll do with them as I please.