Midgets and Sprint Cars,

[2002p51]

It occurred to me that not everybody on here is as big a race fan as I am, and for sure not everybody on here is as big a sprint car and midget fan as I am. That being said, I know that there may be a few who don't really know the difference between a sprint car and a midget.

Well, basically the difference is size.

Sprint cars use the same basic design and chassis technology but are just larger and have a more powerful engine. And although there were lots of exceptions, sprint cars normally ran on larger tracks and for more money. The two cars in this photo are the new Revell midget (of course) and an AMT Grant King sprint car that I converted to Offy power.

Any questions?

[2002p51]

yes, any chance you have a Grant King kit you'd spare?

Nope, sorry, I have plans for every one of them!

[Brendan]

If you can it, there was a Curtis Midget made of resin made by Chris Edsel (I believe.) He also made an Offy 4-cylinder engine.

Very nice work on your models. I've always liked these and the old-style Indy Roadsters.

[Jairus]

Ken is Korrect!

Midgets, Sprint cars and Speedway (Indy 500) cars all had a progression of wheelbase length and increased engine size as one moved up. That was all spelled out back in the very early 30's I believe.

There are also 1/2 midgets and 1/4 midgets as well....

[2002p51]

As for questions, I have one, Drew _ what is your overall opinion on the Revell midget kits?

I think they're excellent. Some of the parts are a little fiddly, but that's the price you pay for things being in scale. The V8-60 engine is a jewel.

I can't wait to get my hands on an Offy powered one.

Only problem I have with the kit is the trailer. One is nice to have, but by the time I buy my 10th or 12th of these things I'm going to be overrun with trailers!

I hope some of the resin casters jump in on the market for these cars. I'd like to see some Halibrand wheels and pavement tires and decals for doing real cars.

[2002p51]

If you can it, there was a Curtis Midget made of resin made by Chris Edsel (I believe.) He also made an Offy 4-cylinder engine.

The Chris Etzel Kurtis Midgets were terrific little kits. They were curbsides with no engine and could only be built as an Offy powered car, (which was fine with me) I've built three of them and have one more to finish.

[Chuck Most]

Only problem I have with the kit is the trailer. One is nice to have, but by the time I buy my 10th or 12th of these things I'm going to be overrun with trailers!

I'll take 'em!

[2002p51]

Regarding decals, I've been saying for awhile that someone REALLY needs to reproduce the sheet that was in the Etzel's midget kit!

I've got a couple of those sheets still. I hope to build all of them with Revell kits.

[2002p51]

Those are beauties, Drew! The Leader Card car is Rodger Ward's, correct? Who drove the 83 car?

Ward is correct. Both Parnelli Jones and A.J. Foyt drove the 83 car.

The 5 car in the black and white photo was driven by Neil Carter whom I was fortunate enough to meet once.

[sjordan2]

Thank you very much for clearing up the difference. I've wondered about that for years but have never felt compelled to look it up.

[Aaronw]

I've been wondering since the Revell kits were announced, so might as well ask here.

Were midgets sometimes rented out at public tracks kind of like you find at some peewee golf places? When I was a little kid maybe 6 or 7 (early 70s) my family went camping with my aunt & uncle. Along the way we stopped at a track where my uncle raced a little car that looked similar to the midget kits, but it was large enough that I was able to ride along with him.

[Art Anderson]

It occurred to me that not everybody on here is as big a race fan as I am, and for sure not everybody on here is as big a sprint car and midget fan as I am. That being said, I know that there may be a few who don't really know the difference between a sprint car and a midget.

Well, basically the difference is size.

Sprint cars use the same basic design and chassis technology but are just larger and have a more powerful engine. And although there were lots of exceptions, sprint cars normally ran on larger tracks and for more money. The two cars in this photo are the new Revell midget (of course) and an AMT Grant King sprint car that I converted to Offy power.

Any questions?

In the era represented here, the basic specs were (USAC--United States Auto Club):

Midget: Wheelbase 72" minimum, Displacement (DOHC pure racing engine): 110cid; Stock Block:144cid.

Sprint Car: Wheelbase 84" minimum. Pure racing engine (such as an Offenhauser) 220cid, stock block 305cid.

Championship (Indianapolis legal) Car: Wheelbase 96" minimum; Pure racing engine Offy, 4-cam Ford etc., 255cid normally aspirated, 161cid supercharged; stock block 305cid normally aspirated, 244 (I believe) supercharged.

There were corresponding minimum weights as well, but I'm not all that sure of those anymore--and they really don't matter in a scale model, of course.

Race car drivers aspiring to run at Indianapolis back in those days (1950's and 60's) generally started with Midgets, then graduated to sprint cars or even dirt track Championship cars, then "Roadsters" on the mile-track parts of the USAC Championship Trail, and finally, if they were good enough to be noticed, an offer to drive a roadster at Indianapolis.

It was hard to make the big time back then--took not only skill, but also perseverance and a big dose of good luck as well. Not all that many Midget or Champ car drivers drove sprints back then, given the almost deadly nature of those early sprinters with no roll cages, very little in the way of safety or protective systems for the driver; and those who did drive them, once they advanced to Champ cars, seldom ever went back.

Only a few drivers made the transition from stock cars to open wheel back then, mostly due to a lack of recognition/publicity of stock car racing outside of the SE United States. The same was also true of Grand Prix drivers--even though they were aware of Indianapolis, few tried it back 50-some years ago; and almost none of the Grand Prix drivers ever tried midgets unless (like Phil Hill, Jack Brabham or Mario Andretti) they'd pretty much gotten their open wheel careers started with midgets.

Art

[Art Anderson]

If you can it, there was a Curtis Midget made of resin made by Chris Edsel (I believe.) He also made an Offy 4-cylinder engine.

Very nice work on your models. I've always liked these and the old-style Indy Roadsters.

Etzel made an excellent resin/white metal Kurtis Midget, but his equally fantastic Offenhauser engine was a 274cid unit, as raced at Indianapolis 1935-55.

Art

[2002p51]

Did the Etzel kit come with the option of adding a roll bar, like the one on the 83, or was that something you scratchbuilt? Looks like that would be something that would not be too terribly difficult to add to the Revell kits, if one so desired.

Yes the roll bar was included in the kit. It would be easy to make one for the Revell kit from soft wire or solder. I made the roll bar on the sprint car in the lead photo from Evergreen styrene rod.

[voljeepx]

Drew, thanks for the info on the different styles of cars, even some of us with knowledge of these cars likes a review now and again. I had a 1/4 midget growing up and loved it! My question is concerning web sites for additional info and pictures. What sites do YOU search on for these great old cars? Thanks for your help, and great builds btw! Ed

[2002p51]

Drew, thanks for the info on the different styles of cars, even some of us with knowledge of these cars likes a review now and again. I had a 1/4 midget growing up and loved it! My question is concerning web sites for additional info and pictures. What sites do YOU search on for these great old cars? Thanks for your help, and great builds btw! Ed

Thanks Ed, The open wheel racers of the '50s and '60s are my very favorite of all.

When the Revell midget first came out I did a search on Google Images for "Kurtis midgets". This was just to give me some ideas for paint schemes.

For my main research, I still like to rely on books and magazines. I have a pretty extensive library of both. I spend a lot of time using a book called "Dirt Track Racers" by Joe Scalzo. I also have books specifically on Kurtis race cars, Offenhauser engines, and Indianapolis roadsters. I'm sorry I can't be more specific on titles and authors but I'm not at home right now.