I want to build the first Indy winner-where do I start?

[Harry P.]

I'd like to do a large-scale model of Ray Harroun's 1911 Indy winning Marmon Wasp.

I know I'm in for a ton of scratchbuilding, but is there any kit out there that would be a logical choice for a starting point? I'd prefer 1/16 or larger, don't want to do anything small (1/24-25).

[Dr. Cranky]

Good luck with this one, Harry. I found this, hope it helps:

[Guest Dr. Odyssey]

I think he means this one, you know 1911 Marmon Wasp...:

Looks like the aero package might make the scratch building a little easier for you. I'd look for tires and go from there.

[Dr. Cranky]

I remember seeing a 1/20th kits similar to this somewhere. I will have to look it up.

In the meantime, if that doesn't work, you can always build one of these:

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/196/9/1/marmon_wasp_ii_by_garycampesi-d3ri2og.jpg[/iimg]

[Craig Irwin]

Art Anderson has a lot of info on Indy cars, may be able to help.

[Casey]

I want to say Chris Etzel's Speed Classics (might have gotten that name all wrong) did a multi-media kit of this car, Harry, but it was in 1/25 scale IIRC. I swear there was as article about it in the SAE issue about Indy Cars...Art will know.

[slantasaurus]

I'd like to do a large-scale model of Ray Harroun's 1911 Indy winning Marmon Wasp.

I know I'm in for a ton of scratchbuilding, but is there any kit out there that would be a logical choice for a starting point? I'd prefer 1/16 or larger, don't want to do anything small (1/24-25).

I'm surprised you want to build an Indy car.....seeing as those wusses don't race in the rain...

[MicroNitro]

The car is on display in the 500 museum in Indy. It was orange when it raced but was painted yellow when it was restored. I have a ton of Photos of it if you need any let me know.

[jas1957]

Harry, There were the Lindberg Mercedes & Stutz Indy cars in 1/16 a couple years ago. Might be a place to start for frames-wheels- tires & such. If you can find a copy of the Rod & Custom from I think about 1965 with 1/25 plans for the car & blow them up to a larger scale.

Edited February 29, 2012 by jas1957

[Danno]

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Did I mention, What Craig Irwin said.

[Cato]

I'm surprised you want to build an Indy car.....seeing as those wusses don't race in the rain...

Wrong. All road courses are run in rain. Retract 'wusses' crack.

[Art Anderson]

The car is on display in the 500 museum in Indy. It was orange when it raced but was painted yellow when it was restored. I have a ton of Photos of it if you need any let me know.

NO! The 1911 Marmon Wasp was NEVER painted "Orange", period! The confusion stems from a statement made by Ray Harroun in later years, about the car being "orange", but people his age, from that era, often called a darker yellow "orange", as in "orange-yellow". Further complicating the issue is the famous photo in black & white, showing a very dark car--but that was a characteristic of early B&W film. I have a color video (made from a color movie done by and for Firestone, of the 1946 Indianapolis 500 Mile Race. Ray Harroun is very prominently featured, sitting in the worn, but all original Marmon Wasp (with it's original paint, BTW) being interviewed, and in conversation with Wilbur Shaw (Indy winner 1937, 1939-40). The color of the Wasp? The same yellow it was restored with when that was done back in 1954.

Time to let that "orange" canard be laid to rest--it ain't so!

Art

[sjordan2]

As I do with my research for some other kits in large scale, I'd start by getting a detailed diecast in smaller scale to analyze what's needed.

[sjordan2]

Try this version and you won't stress about accuracy.

[Art Anderson]

Joe Henning wrote an article for Rod & Custom Models in 1964, entitled "Build a Paper Wasp". By that he meant building the Marmon Wasp using Strathmore Board (an artist's card-stock paper very common back then) in 1/25 scale. I knew Chris Etzel of Etsel's Speed Classics very well from his early childhood through the end of his aftermarket company, and he did have considerable connections at the Speedway Museum. However, the Marmon Wasp design, likenesses and such are registered trademarks of Indianapolis Motor Speedway Corp and the Hall of Fame Museum, and to my knowledge this car has been licensed just twice for miniature reproduction--first as one of the series of Jim Beam Bourbon Whiskey bottles, and second as a 1/43 scale casting by one of the "Mints", and nobody else.

That said, This is a car whose bodywork was made entirely on rolling and bending brakes, basic sheet metal forming machinery, the hood and cowling being rolled into simple curves, the cockpit and tail cone having been formed on a bending brake (made the sheet metal look for all the world as if it had been "folded and creased into shape".

Henning's model used the MPC 1927-28 Lincoln for the chassis (actually quite close in appearance), with wheels and tires from the SMP 1911 Chevrolet prototype promotional model done in 1961 for Chevy's 50th anniversary year.

In any larger scale, the chassis would need to be scratchbuilt, as there are no model car kits with chassis even close in appearance. For the engine, that was a very basic inline 6 of the era, 3 two-cylinder T-head blocks on a common aluminum crankcase. Any literature on the Marmon Model 32 would show that engine, and for that matter, the chassis as well--the car is a stock-block engine, the chassis is that of a street Marmon, with simply the monoposto bodywork and steering setup, and of course, the racing bodywork. The wheells are the typical wood spoke artillery style wheels of the era, with demountable rims, but faired in with flat sheet metal discs on both sides, with notches cut into their circumference to clear the demountable rim lugs and brackets. Tires were then, as now, Firestones, a new set having been made and mounted by Coker Tire Company in 2010 (there is a video of Corky Coker, with the Wasp, at Coker Tire, explaining about the car itself and its significance, on Youtube.

In any scale larger than 1/25, this is a model that would require total scratchbuilding, but what a great project it would be!

Art

[Art Anderson]

Good luck with this one, Harry. I found this, hope it helps:

Not even close Cranky! The car you pictured here is the 1914 Delage Indy Winner driven by Frenchman Rene Thomas (pronounced "Toe-May") which car still exists, in the collection of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Hall of Fame Museum. In 1974, the car was driven on the track in pre-race festivities, dunno who drove it, but in the riding mechanic's seat was none other than Rene Thomas himself! (I was there for the race, saw it happen).

Art

[Art Anderson]

Took this pic of the Marmon Wasp on opening day of practice at Indy, May 2011, on the occasion of the huge Concours marking the Centennial of the "500". The car was in the Museum, along with a massive display of Indy 500 winning cars:

[sjordan2]

Here's a guy who built some 1/8 versions for the 100th anniversary. Maybe he could help with plans:

http://blog.hemmings...scale-replicas/

Edited February 29, 2012 by sjordan2

[Harry P.]

In any scale larger than 1/25, this is a model that would require total scratchbuilding, but what a great project it would be!

Art

That's kind of what I figured.

I did find a few diecasts out there, 1/43 and this one in 1/18:

http://www.replicarz.com/1911-Marmon-Wasp-Indy-Winner-Ray-Harroun/productinfo/R18003/

But for $230, it's a little pricey to buy as a 'reference!"

I think a nice long google image search and a pile of styrene channel and sheet will get me started.

[Harry P.]

I also found photos of the car ranging from a bright lemon yellow to a very "orangey" dark yellow, which is what the real color probably was (not "orange" as we might imagine "orange" to be, but more of a "schoolbus yellow" color).

[Harry P.]

Obviously only one of these photos (if any) can be right...

BTW... exactly how many of this supposedly "one of a kind" car are floating around out there, anyhow?

[moparmagiclives]

The blueptints.com may be able to supply some measurements, or vector drawings that may help.

[sjordan2]

So, it's 183 miles from Chicago to the Hall of Fame in Indianapolis - 3 hours by car. If I was going to undertake a project like that, I'd take a Pantone color chart book and a few camera memory cards and hit the road.

Edited February 29, 2012 by sjordan2

[Harry P.]

That's assuming that the car in the Indy museum is actually painted the right color.

As you can see by the photos I posted (and a lot more online)... the actual color seems to be a matter of personal opinion!

[Guest Dr. Odyssey]

Is it possible the same car is just shown in different displays in those photos?